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Resolution

Last post 08-28-2019, 12:44 by saby. 12 replies.
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  •  08-26-2019, 18:09 787604

    Resolution

    With a new camera in hand, I've started to investigate options to increase the resolution of my videos using Pinnacle Studio 15. I do not have a Blu-ray recorder, so the options are using a DVD or a file (on a flash drive).

    My first experiment was with a short video consisting of 17M stills and video clips shot at 1280x720/30fps. Make Movie variations were:

    1) DVD at 'best'

    2) AVCHD at 1280x720/30p burned to a DVD

    3) mp4 file at 1280x720/30p

    4) mp2 file at 1280x720/30p


    The mp4 and mp2 files were played on an HDTV (1920x1080) directly from a usb flash drive. Quality was very similar, even though the mp2 file was ~3x larger (140MB vs 40MB). Both were noticeably lower resolution than either of the disc versions, with the stills in particular exhibiting noticeable pixelation. 

    The two discs were played on a Blu-ray player, outputting to the same HDTV.

    The best of all four variants was the DVD. While the video clips appeared similar on the DVD and AVCHD, the stills were noticeably better on the DVD compared to the AVCHD.

    In all cases, Pinnacle is having to down sample the 17M stills to a lower resolution in creating the video. Also, in all cases, the video is having to be up sampled to the HDTV's 1920x1080 resolution. In the case of the DVD and AVCHD disc, the blu-ray player would be doing the up sampling while the HDTV would be doing the up sampling from the mp4 and mp2 files played from the usb flash drive. These different steps in down sampling and up sampling create additional variables in what one ultimately sees on the HDTV.

     It's both surprising and I'm at a loss to understand how the DVD, which of course is at the 720x480 DVD resolution, ends up being better than the other three alternatives, all of which are 1280x720.

    Would appreciate hearing thoughts on why the DVD ends up producing the best quality picture. In all this I'm also  wondering if it's affected by limitations in Pinnacle 15 creating higher than DVD resolution vidoes (I do have Pinnacle 20, still in a box, never installed, and wonder if perhaps it would produce different results).

    Thanks in advance for your ideas on this. 

     

  •  08-27-2019, 15:08 787637 in reply to 787604

    Re:Resolution

    To figure out what might have happened would you give a shot of Mediainfo on :

    • one of the .vob files located in the Video_ts folder of the DVD
    • one of the .m2ts files located in the \BDMV\STREAM folder of the AVCHD disk
    • the mp4 file
    • the mp2 file
    And provide a screenshot of the Tree view of each file.
     
    BTW, the correct term is up/down scaling rather than up/down sampling. Up/down samplig refers to audio digital signal treatment.
  •  08-27-2019, 15:48 787646 in reply to 787637

    Re: Re:Resolution

    Here's a summary of the mediainfo for each (j'espere que c'est l'information vous demandez):

    Type DVD AVCHD
    (on DVD)
    mp4 file mpeg2 file From camera
    file VIDEO_TS.VOB 00000.m2ts .mp4 .mpg .mp4
    Video          
    Frame width 720 1440 1280 1280 1280
    Frame height 480 1080 720 720 720
    Data rate kbps 8000 10862 3518 20000 8107
    Total bitrate kbps 9536 11118 3608 20224 8237
    Frame rate frames/sec 29.97 29.97 29.97 29.97 29.97
    Audio          
    Bit rate 1536 256 89 224 129
    Channels 2 (stereo) 2 (stereo) 2 (stereo) 2 (stereo) 2 (stereo)


    Comparing this information, I see the DVD is 720x480, as expected, and the AVCHD is 1440x1080, which I believe is fixed in PS15. The Project preferences (in Edit) were set to 1280x720 in all cases. The last 'Type' is one of the .mp4 files from the camera, which is also 1280x720. Frame rate is the same in all cases and the data rate and bitrate in all cases is similar to or greater than the data and bit rates from the camera, except the mp4 file which has lower rates.

     By way of further experimentation, I displayed the .mp4 file from the camera directly on an HDTV from a usb drive, and it looks excellent. Better than the DVD.

    It seems to me that the processing by PS15 to create the disc image or file is resulting in a loss of resolution. Does this seem correct? Is there a way to prevent this? Are later versions of Pinnacle Studio better in this regard?

    Thank you for your help. 

     

     

     

  •  08-27-2019, 15:58 787647 in reply to 787646

    Re: Re:Resolution

    Glassen:

    (j'espere que c'est l'information vous demandez):

    Merci pour ces quelques mots en français !  Big Smile

    Would you add the Format (codec) found by Mediainfo for the exported mp4 and the one on the camera ?

    Glassen:

    and the AVCHD is 1440x1080, which I believe is fixed in PS15.

    It's fixed in PS15 because PS15 produces AVCHD compliant to AVCHD standard.

    Glassen:
     

    Are later versions of Pinnacle Studio better in this regard?

    For sure they do a better work !

  •  08-27-2019, 16:40 787649 in reply to 787647

    Re: Re:Resolution

    Ah oui, je sais un peu le francais (je suis passe a Bourgogne cinq semaines le mai dernier).

    My apologies for not including the codec. I have not used Mediainfo before today!

    For the exported mp4, Mediainfo reports codec ID mp42v-20. For the mp4 on the camera, codec ID avc1.

    As an experiment, I turned on "Enable full-resolution preview" in PS15 (it is usually off) and previewed the clip in Edit in full screen preview. There is a noticeable loss in resolution similar to what I see in the exported mp4 file. This is on my computer monitor, but I can run the mp4 file from the camera in Quicktime, and it looks full resolution (on my monitor, which is 1920x1080). This makes me think there is some problem with PS15 handling the HD mp4 file. The problem is not only videos. It is the still photos, which all loose resolution in all formats; disc or file. The best looking is DVD (which seems strange since DVD is only 720x480).

    I would like to find a solution to this for PS15 because I am so comfortable working with it. I do also have PS20 that I have never installed. If this would be the solution, then I would install it and start using it, bien sur. (Can I have both PS15 and PS20 installed on the same computer without conflicts?).

    Thank you again for your help. 

     

  •  08-27-2019, 17:17 787653 in reply to 787649

    Re: Re:Resolution

    Attachment: Capture2.PNG
    Glassen:

    Ah oui, je sais un peu le francais (je suis passe a Bourgogne cinq semaines le mai dernier).

    5 weeks in France and you're able to build a phrase with a good grammar !!!

    Some don't even manage to count to ten in French after 5 years !!

    Glassen:

    (Can I have both PS15 and PS20 installed on the same computer without conflicts?).

    Absolutely !

    Glassen:

    For the exported mp4, Mediainfo reports codec ID mp42v-20. For the mp4 on the camera, codec ID avc1.

    What I wish are these infos :
  •  08-27-2019, 18:26 787657 in reply to 787649

    Re: Re:Resolution

    Glassen:
    For the exported mp4, Mediainfo reports codec ID mp42v-20. For the mp4 on the camera, codec ID avc1.
    I think that MP4 codec used by Studio 15's export is the old (legacy) "MPEG-4 video" one; Studio 15 cannot export a .MP4 file using H.264/AVC video compression (it can only use H.264 for a file type of "MPEG-2 TS" (using that setting you would end up with a .M2TS file similar to those produced by consumer AVCHD camcorders).

    Earlier versions of Studio did have issues with large still images - at one time there was a workaround by renaming the image with _HD added to the file name; I do not know if that workarould is still relevant to Studio 15...

    As far as compatibility and versions coexisting, I have several versions installed here (at present I mostly use Studio 22 and Studio 15).

    Regards,
    Richard

  •  08-27-2019, 18:42 787660 in reply to 787657

    Re: Re:Resolution

    culpanr:

    Glassen:
    For the exported mp4, Mediainfo reports codec ID mp42v-20. For the mp4 on the camera, codec ID avc1.
    I think that MP4 codec used by Studio 15's export is the old (legacy) "MPEG-4 video" one;

    That's my guess too. Hence my request for the codec info.

  •  08-27-2019, 18:47 787661 in reply to 787653

    Re: Re:Resolution

    Ce n'etait pas les cinq semaines en Bourgogne seulement. J'ai etudie le francais nombreuses mois avant.

    For the mp4 from the camera, Mediainfo reports:

    Format                                   : AVC

    Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec

    Format profile                           : High@L3.1

    For the exported mp4, Mediainfo reports:

    Format                                   : MPEG-4 Visual

    Format profile                           : Simple@L3

     There is no "Format/info" line in the Mediainfo report for the exported mp4 file.

     

     

  •  08-27-2019, 19:08 787662 in reply to 787661

    Re: Re:Resolution

    Ok, Richard and I were right.

    The codec used in the exported mp4 is and old codec unsuitable for HD and the bitrate used is too low for HD => hence the bad quaity.

    By cons, I can't explain why a 20000 kbps bitrate for a Mpeg2 file gives a bad result. It should be enough datas.

  •  08-28-2019, 10:59 787700 in reply to 787662

    Re: Re:Resolution

    Thank you for the information.

    In addition to why the Mpeg2 file at 20000 kbps gives a bad result, there is also the mystery why the AVCHD (on a DVD) gives a bad result.

    And, as mentioned, the poor quality preview, even when high definition preview is selected.  

    I have thought the rendering for preview is separate from the rendering for creating a disc image or file. Maybe there is some part of the rendering that is common to both that is causing the issue. This doesn't explain why a DVD has a good result (at least DVD's appear to have the resolution I expect for a DVD).

    Is my experience with PS15 unique or do others have bad results making a high resolution video in PS15? And, is there something different in later versions, for example, PS20 (newer, better codecs)?

    I suppose today I will install the PS20 I have and see if it solves the problem. If so, I'll need to learn the new interface!

    Thank you again for your help. 

  •  08-28-2019, 12:36 787711 in reply to 787700

    Re: Re:Resolution

    Ah ha! Problem solved!

    Experimenting with settings available for rendering in PS15, I tried unchecking 'use hardware acceleration', et voila...problem solved. I could immediately see preview was now in HD. Tested creating 1280x720 mp4, mpeg2 and AVCHD, and all were HD, except the mp4 resolution was not as good as the others. Checking with Mediainfo, I can see that the mp4 is at only ~5000 kbps, even though the maximum 12000 kbps was selected.

    After all this, I am still going to proceed and finally install PS20. I suspect, or hope, there are other improvements. PS15 is, after all, about 7 years old.

    Thanks again for your help.

    A bientot! 

  •  08-28-2019, 12:44 787712 in reply to 787711

    Re: Re:Resolution

    Thanks for the feedback.
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