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Movie plays beyond end of chapter briefly before returning to menu

Last post 10-12-2021, 3:28 by saby. 87 replies.
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  •  10-08-2014, 10:31 645281

    Movie plays beyond end of chapter briefly before returning to menu

    Attachment: Chapter markers.jpg
    1) Created a movie project consisiting of a film and slideshow.

    2) Then created a disc project from the open movie project.

    3) Placed Chapter Start and End of Chapter Marks at appropriate places.

    4) When show is played it returns to DVD menu but it briefly shows around a second of the next show before returning to the menu.  Even although the shows do not overlap they are on separate tracks and there are several seconds of     nothing between the end of one show and the beginning of the next.

    5) I have tried deleting the disc project and creating another one based on the movie project and deleting the render files.

    6) Any ideas?.
  •  10-08-2014, 12:20 645296 in reply to 645281

    Re: Movie plays beyond end of chapter briefly before returning to menu

    This is a known issue and, as far as I am aware, cannot be rectified without leaving a gap between each section on the timeline, which would then impact upon the playing of the entire piece.
  •  11-20-2014, 21:56 654488 in reply to 645296

    Re: Movie plays beyond end of chapter briefly before returning to menu

    How much of a gap is needed? I have a 7 second gap between the return to menu marker and the next chapter link marker and still have the problem.
  •  11-20-2014, 22:17 654496 in reply to 654488

    Re: Movie plays beyond end of chapter briefly before returning to menu

    What if you place all shows on the same track ?
  •  11-28-2014, 15:06 655603 in reply to 654496

    Re: Movie plays beyond end of chapter briefly before returning to menu

    To work around the problem I put a "dummy" chapter of a black title between the chapters. When the selected chapter plays long, it is just a black screen.
  •  12-13-2014, 18:28 657349 in reply to 655603

    Re: Movie plays beyond end of chapter briefly before returning to menu

    Attachment: testproject1.jpg

    Issue may have been solved in the PS18.0.2 patch; I tried a test project having a classic "play all" / "play scenes" structure (can play straight through if played from M1 or returns after every scene if played from M2).

    I exported as a VIDEO_TS folder and played it with VLC Player; no unwanted flash of the following scene was observed when returning to M2 at the end of each scene. And I did not need to leave any gaps between the scenes.

    Screen shot of project timeline attached.

    Regards,
    Richard


  •  01-19-2015, 14:32 661569 in reply to 657349

    Re: Movie plays beyond end of chapter briefly before returning to menu

    Well, I have 18.0.2.444 version installed and the problem still happens... Looks like I'll have to put a black screen clip between the chapters...
  •  01-26-2015, 19:21 662472 in reply to 661569

    Re: Movie plays beyond end of chapter briefly before returning to menu

    Update:

    The black title workaround didn't work either...

    I put black titles (4 seconds long I guess) between the chapters. Yet, when the playback reaches the end of a chapter, it doesn't return (this is the original bug), but it doesn't playback the black screen either! Instead it skips the title and plays several seconds of the next chapter. Only then does it return.

    Does anybody know how this can be solved? 

    Thanks! 

  •  01-26-2015, 19:56 662479 in reply to 662472

    Re: Movie plays beyond end of chapter briefly before returning to menu

    AlexeyBg:
    The black title workaround didn't work either...
    Studio's exporter may be "trying to be clever" and notices that the space between the movies that you had originally, or the black clip you tried as the workaround are actually unreachable (cannot be played from any starting point in the disc). So it might simply skip them and not bother to output them to the disc/image.

    But what happens for you using Studio 18.0.2 if you remove the gap between the two movies completely (like the example shown in my earlier screen shot)?

    • Does it now work as expected (returns cleanly to the menu with no unwanted flash of the first frame of the following movie)?
    • Is there a "flash" of the first frame of the following movie? If so, is that dependent upon the player - if you play the disc or image in the computer does it play OK there, but not on the (physical) DVD player hooked up ti the TV?
    • Does it still play a sizeable slab of the unwanted material from the following movie?

     FWIW, I have never needed to leave gaps or put blank clips in between multiple "movies in the same disc - and ISTR legacy Studio versions wouldn't actually let you do it!

    Regards,
    Richard

  •  01-26-2015, 21:18 662492 in reply to 662479

    Re: Movie plays beyond end of chapter briefly before returning to menu

    Hi Richard,

    Originally there were no gaps in my movie and the adjacent clips looked just like on your snapshot. And this is exactly when I first came across the problem. I only added the titles in order to try and overcome this glitch. But now, after 18 hours of rendering I've found out that it didn't help :(

    When playing the Bluray disc on my Panasonic player the behaviour matches your option 3: a sizeable portion of the next clip plays before the return to the menu. I'd say 5 to 10 seconds.

    I don't usually play my disc on the PC, but in order to be able to answer your question I downloaded a trial version of Power DVD Ver.14 and it behaves exactly the same. About 7 seconds of unwanted playback...

    I don't have many ideas left besides, probably, putting the return marker in the middle of the clip, some 10 seconds  before the end. But that would be really ugly... Do you think there are better options?

     

    Thanks,

    Alexey 

     

  •  01-27-2015, 0:56 662504 in reply to 662492

    Re: Movie plays beyond end of chapter briefly before returning to menu

    Thanks for reporting your findings...

    My test was done using a DVD image (your original posting gave the impression that you were making a DVD image, not a Bluray). I don't have a physical Bluray player, but next time I'm doing anything in PS18 I'll try exporting my little test movie as a Bluray image instead of DVD and see if I get the buggy "return to menu" behaviour too if I play the image in Nero 2014's Bluray player.

    Regards,
    Richard

  •  01-27-2015, 12:50 662556 in reply to 662504

    Re: Movie plays beyond end of chapter briefly before returning to menu

    Attachment: TSITL test disc.jpg

    I have now done some further testing, and can report that a disc compiled using Pinnacle Studio Ultimate 18.0.2 (64 bit) does "play past the end" of chapters for both DVD and Bluray images. But the behaviour is player-dependent; some software players (VLC Player) hide the problem!

    My recipe:

    • With nothing already loaded in movie or disc projects, go to "Edit" (movie project) and load the sample movie.
    • Switch to "Author" (disc project), click "yes" to create the new disc project from the open movie
    • Add a main and sub menu of your choice
    • Add chapters and returns to create a classic 2play all" / "scene selection" layout. In my example (see screenshot) the movie will play right through if played from M1 but is divided into two movies (C1 and C2 in the first, C3 and C4 in the second) if played from M2
    • Export the movie as a disc image (AVCHD | best quality for Bluray, or DVD | best quality for DVD)
    • Burn a disc or create an image and play with various players

    For reference, I have uploaded my completed test disc project as a package (.axx) with all of the used assets including the PAL version of the sample movie. It's on Dropbox link here)


    Resuts of playing the disc/image file

    • Burn Bluray image onto DVD+RW disc (U|DF) and play in Nero 2014 Platinum's Bluray Player application: When player reaches end of "first movie" (launched from clicking C1 or C2 in M2), the player pauses and briefly shows a black image, followed by about half a second of the start of the "second movie" before returning to the menu. (I don't have a standalone Bluray player so can't test the disc other than by using the PC)
    • Burn DVD image onto DVD+RW disc (UDF/ISO9660) and play in Windows Media Player or in old Liteon LVW5045 DVD player attached to TV. No pause/black frame, but approx. half a second of the "second movie" is seen before returning to the menu.
    • Mount the ISO image on the PC and play with Windows Media Player - no difference from playing the physical burned disc
    • Mount the ISO image and play with VLC Player - the problem is not seen at all; the first movie returns to the menu without showing any unwanted "flash" from the second movie


    So, I must conclude that there is still an issue with the authoring of both DVD discs and Bluray discs; the placement of, or parameters specified with the "return to menu" instruction are not compatible with several different DVD players, resulting in the player returning "late"

    Regards,
    Richard


  •  01-27-2015, 13:46 662568 in reply to 662504

    Re: Movie plays beyond end of chapter briefly before returning to menu

    Thanks for your help and time Richard!

    I hope a comprehensive fix is available soon because there seems to be no reasonable workaround at this point... 

    By the way, I'm not the topic starter, so I never said my movie was DVD-based :) I only wrote a message to this thread to confirm the problem was real and had not been fixed. 

    Regards,

    Alexey 

  •  01-28-2015, 16:15 662690 in reply to 645281

    Re: Movie plays beyond end of chapter briefly before returning to menu

    Attachment: pic1.jpg

    I struggled with this problem earlier for DVD introductions. And I solved it with a black picture.

    Now with patch 18.0.2, if I remember right, it seems for me that the problem exists between every chapter. My fix for this is the same.

    • Insert a black picture with duration of one second between every chapter.
    • Expand the timeline to be sure you don't have any odd frames between chapters.
    • Set the chapter points in the beginning of the black pictures and not where the real chapters starts.

     


  •  01-28-2015, 16:35 662694 in reply to 662690

    Re: Movie plays beyond end of chapter briefly before returning to menu

    Hi miniDvd,

    So you basically made the black screen a visible and reachable part of the chapter? I.e., when you select the chapter from the menu the first thing you see is a black screen? Probably this is indeed required for the workaround to do the job because, as Richard explained above, unreachable clips are removed during rendering.

    Well, if it works this could be acceptable. But in my case the overplay is very long, around 7 seconds, so inserting 1 second of black screen will not probably be enough. On the other hand, 7 seconds of nothing at the beginning of a chapter is clearly unacceptable... So I doubt it will work for me...

    Thanks for sharing,

    Alexey 

  •  01-28-2015, 23:31 662762 in reply to 662694

    Re: Movie plays beyond end of chapter briefly before returning to menu

    AlexeyBg:
    But in my case the overplay is very long, around 7 seconds
    That extreme length of "overplay" before going back to the menu suggests that there is something else wrong besides the known bug of playing a few frames past the return.

    1. Does the issue occur, whatever device you use to play the disc (or do you only have access to one player - if only one player, could be the issue be in the player itself - try a software player to see if that behaves in the same way)?
    2. IDoes the issue occur if you make a disc/image from the sample movie (load it, start a new disc project using it and add a couple of menus)?
    3. If using the sample movie does not show the issue, can you make a small project that causes the issue using just the stock "the sky is the limit" video?
    4. If it does not happen using the stock video, can you create the project using just a small piece of your video (ideally no more than 100MB or so) that does cause the issue, and then share that project + video file etc. as a package (upload somewhere in the cloud where others can download and try it)?

    If the file size isn't too large I am happy to try it out to see what happens here (but note that I can't burn or play real BD-R(E) discs so would have to just make an image or burn an AVCHD DVD and play that disc (or the image) with a software player.

    Regards,
    Richard

  •  01-29-2015, 11:58 662795 in reply to 662762

    Re: Movie plays beyond end of chapter briefly before returning to menu

    Hi Richard,

    As I wrote earlier, I had tried my disc on two players - my standalone Panasonic Bluray player and the desktop's Bluray drive with Power DVD 14.0 software. The result was pretty much the same. I also have a Bluray drive on my laptop and I have another Panasonic player (configured to a different area code) so I can do more experimenting.

    I will also try to prepare the shortest  possible version of my own movie that allows to reproduce the bug. 

     

    Thanks,

    Alexey 

  •  02-16-2015, 21:07 665088 in reply to 662762

    Re: Movie plays beyond end of chapter briefly before returning to menu

    Attachment: RTM & chapter.jpg

    I have re-tested using the Pinnacle Studio 18.1.0 patch (PS18 Ultimate 64 bit) - and have made a discovery about how Studio handles the "return-to-menu" marker...

    • If you place the return-to-menu marker on the leading edge of the very last frame of that chapter/movie (so there is effectively a 1-frame gap (the width of the playhead) between the return-to-menu flag and the chapter flag that begins the next chapter/movie), the DVD player will play on for up to approx 1/2 second (1 full GOP?) before returning to the menu. So an unwanted little "flash" of the following chapter/movie is seen...
    • But if there is no gap at all between the RTM flag and the next chapter flag (see attached closeup of disc project's timeline), that half-second "run-on" was eliminated.

    So, anyone having issues with seeing a little "flash" of the following chapter - it would be worth zooming in on the timeline and if any of those little 1-frame gaps are found, try eliminating them by dragging the RTM flag until it is butted right up against the next chapter flag,

    HTH
    Richard


  •  02-22-2015, 9:07 666023 in reply to 665088

    Re: Movie plays beyond end of chapter briefly before returning to menu

    I tested the 18.1 patch yesterday and this problem was solved in my movie!

    I'll check where exactly I put the marker and will share this information here.

    Anyway, that's good news.

     

    Best regards,

    Alexey 

  •  03-11-2015, 4:17 668133 in reply to 666023

    Re: Movie plays beyond end of chapter briefly before returning to menu

    Hellow All, Just joined. I'm having and been battling this for a couple weeks. Anyone know of any updates or specific procedures on this ?   I tried the suggestion to verify the M1 and Cx's are fully back to back.  Still no help.  Here is a snapshot of the area and what I'm doing.

    C1 title | Video  | "The End" Title | C2 Title | C2 video ....

    Chapter return flag and C2 flag back to back between "The End" Title and C2 Title.  As suggested above.

    PS 18.1.0.602

    Thanks

    Mark

  •  03-11-2015, 9:59 668156 in reply to 668133

    Re: Movie plays beyond end of chapter briefly before returning to menu

    Hi Mark, and welcome to the forum...

    To help others who may have ideas about what could be the cause of the problem and give suggestions as to how to try to solve or work around, it would be useful if you would give a few more details about the project. For starters:

    • Which "level" of Studio are you using ("Standard", "Plus" or "Ultimate")?
    • Are you trying to make a regular DVD, AVCHD DVD or Bluray?
    • What format is the source video?

    IMO it would be useful if you can post a screen shot of the timeline, or at least a close-up around the end of the first movie/beginning of the second movie, in case there's something odd such as a transition or title slightly overlapping between the end of the first movie and the start of the second (for reference, a posting containing some instructions for attaching screen shots to your postings is here).

    Regards,
    Richard

  •  03-11-2015, 17:03 668208 in reply to 668156

    Re: Movie plays beyond end of chapter briefly before returning to menu

    Hi Richard,

    • PS Ultimate 18.1.0.602  (64-bit)
    • Regular DVD  -  About 1hr video per disk  -  Best Quality default settings.
    • Captured MPEG aprox 8000 ... from VCR tape.
    • I'll try to post some screen shot after getting myself organized and checking the instructions link.

    Have used: PS 9, 12 Ult, 17 Ult.  and recently purchased 18 Ulit.

    MY OBJECTIVE: 120 min's of vcr/.MPG onto 2 dvd's at 60 mins each.  Then make 3 copies.   So far I've created 2 dvd's with 3 copies each.  This morning (to get organized) I viewed and made notes for the 6 disks.  I'll try to be concise.

    DVD 1 Pt 1 (60min) with 3 copies has:

    • Menu with 3 chapters.
    • Tittles at start of each chapter.
    • Fad into video after start title
    • Fad out at end of video then M1 flag
    • M1 and C2 - C3 flags "back to back" as suggested earlier in thread.
    • THIS DISK WORKS AND RETURNS TO M1 AFTER EACH CHAPTER PROPERLY WITHOUT SHOWING THE NEXT FRAME BEFORE RETURNING TO M1.  (All 3 copies)
    • This was my 1st DVDS attempt.

    The next DVD I tried to get a bit fancier.

    DVD 1 Pt 2 ATEMPT ... Using the next 60 mins of the .MPG file used above.

    • Same project layout as above EXCEPT
    • 5 chapters (2 menu pages)
    • Add a "The End" title at the end of each chapter.  Also modifying the "Enter and Exit Motions type and length.
    • PLAYING THIS DISK SHOWS  "at least 1 frame" OF THE NEXT CHAPTER TITLE BEFORE RETURNING TO THE MENU.  Except for the last chapter end because nothings there LOL
    • M1 and C2, C3 .... ect ... flags "back to back" as suggested earlier in thread.

    Note: Before burning the DVD's I viewed in VLC and they played fine.  So before final burning I went onto the next .mpg file and new projects.  Later I started to burn DVD 1 and view it in the player.  DVD 1 Pt 1 was fine.  Burn DVD 1 Pt 2 and "Does Not Return Properly".  Humm...  I continued trying to figure out what the problem was.  Modifying the existing project , checking marker position video frame positions ect.

    Then symptoms changed.  I'd burn a DVD and 1 or 2 chapters would return OK and 1 or 2 chapters would not (Show The Next Chapter Frame) on the same dvd.  Still ... at this point the only changes to the project were "Chapter End Titles" and "Modifying the Enter and Exits Type and Length.

     I went onto a new project using a different .mpg video file.  Still using a relatively "Basic" project.  Just menu, start title and end title. After probably 2 weeks of working on this problem I found this thread.  And felt good I guess ... that others were having this issue.

    I think I can say (from viewing today on TV the 6 dvd's I have created.  Chapters return PROPERLY,  only if there is no "Title" at the end of the chapter, with another chapter following.  The last chapter will work properly though because it's the end. 

    I don't know what the problem is but after testing for days.  My gut feeling what's causing this:

    • The method PS "combines titles, transitions and video frames" automatically.  IE A title with a length of 10 becomes 8 by adding a 2 second transition.  Or I haven't found how to turn that off, if possible.
    • The method PS handles Enter and Exit transitions within a Title.  Especially if Enter and/or Exits are modified after the title is attached to video or another transition.    IE.  Set a Enter Transition of "Type" in a title with duration of 2 second with text "June 10". It plays fine in the Editor.  Add that title to the end of a video clip that has a transition out... say 3 seconds.  When the cursor gets to the "June 10' part.  It is displayed as Jun (all 1 word displayed and then types the "ne 10". 
    • Maybe a few other things too.

    The project plays nicely in the timeline.  But after export problems develop.  I don't know if it could be the render.  That part is out of my league.  Any way ... this is getting pretty long, hope it makes sense and maybe helps. Hope someone has some ideas.

    Thanks for your time.

    Mark

     

     

  •  03-11-2015, 19:44 668232 in reply to 668208

    Re: Movie plays beyond end of chapter briefly before returning to menu

    Hi Mark,

    Thanks for the information - so looks like things started to go wrong when that "The End" title was added... I will try a simple test project to see if I can get anything similar to happen here...

    With regard to the title length changing when you add a transition between the title and video - it is natural that something (video clip or title) has to change to create the "overlap time" of the transition. But you don't need to use a fade transition between the video and the title at all:

    • Place the title on the track above the video as an overlay; if you want it to start before the video finishes, slide it to the left a little.
    • You can fade the video out independently of the title by creating a fade-out of the video and a fade-in of the title; they don't need to be the same duration.

    To possibly solve your problem of the "entry" motion of your date "June 10" starting part-way through, try dragging the start point of that text layer in the layer stack (the title editor's "timeline" at the bottom) so that the text layer does not get displayed until 2 seconds after the start of the title (or whatever duration of the transition between the video and the title).

    If I find out anything useful from further testing I will post back here.

    Regards,
    Richard

  •  03-11-2015, 20:48 668238 in reply to 668208

    Re: Movie plays beyond end of chapter briefly before returning to menu

    I tried a couple of tests using the sample movie; "dividing it up" into two chapters with an added "The End" title at the end of each chapter. But in both cases my disc played normally (no unwanted flash of the next chapter before returning to the menu).

    But my test project is quite likely not representative of yours, so seeing a screenshot of the timeline + also how you have arranged the entry/exit motions in the title editor would hopefully let me create a test project that at least "looked the same as yours".

    Regards,
    Richard

  •  03-12-2015, 16:15 668331 in reply to 668238

    Re: Movie plays beyond end of chapter briefly before returning to menu

    Attachment: Full Project.JPG

    Hi Richard, Here are 2 sc's . The Full Project.jpg just shows how my timeline is setup.  There is a 5th chapter, same as 1 - 4.  Chpt End - Start.jpg shows the end start title's.  Each chapter is on it's own timeline.

    Your previous post says to place the title above the video timeline.  Is my project layout "legal" ... where I have the end and start titles?  On the same timeline.

    Did some create dvd testing with some interesting results.  Won't get into it until I here from you about my project layout ... is it ok to do it that way?  Seems it should be.

    Thanks, Mark


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