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GoPro cameras, etc. ...

Last post 12-07-2018, 10:34 by kiteflyer. 669 replies.
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  •  05-12-2013, 3:10 592112

    GoPro cameras, etc. ...

    I tonight shot and uploaded to Vimeo a brief A/B comparison of the GoPro3 with / and without their ProTunes enhancement. ProTunes is supposed to deliver better image fidelity.

    And when the 2 videos are compared, it does look like there is less contrast and more shadow detail in my arms, for example. 

    BTW, If you look to the lower edge of the frame, you will see WiFi monitoring of the video -- but only in the non-Protunes mode.

    I'm told that when Protunes is used the camera is not able to also process a live feed.   

    https://vimeo.com/65988682  No Protunes

    https://vimeo.com/65985869  Protunes mode 

     

    (I think maybe it would be useful to have an OT thread dedicated to GoPro discussions) 

    Filed under:
  •  05-12-2013, 5:19 592126 in reply to 592112

    Re: GoPro cameras, etc. ...

    That seems to confirm what I've read - that the normal mode gives the more natural looking pictures, while the protunes image has been flattened by adjusting the gamma, preserving more detail in the highlights and low lights within the display range. So, if you now regrade the protunes image you can choose a different exposure range depending on which details you want to see.

    I think I'm correct in saying that the limiting factor on contrast range is now the display, not the camera or the recording methods. THIS shows that an LCD display still isn't as good as the human eye, ((and that 9.5 stop figure is probably in idea viewing conditions) while DSLRs and film get much closer.

  •  05-14-2013, 15:19 592420 in reply to 592126

    Re: GoPro cameras, etc. ...

    ProDad -- the Mercalli stabilization people -- have a new product oriented to the GoPro that is less expensive than their professional software. Its called ProDRENALIN. On paper this seems to be an unusually full featured product, but I haven't myself yet had a chance to use it.  Its advertised as being GoPro targeted, in as much as it can remove some of the GoPro's fisheye-ness, etc. -- but their staff have told me that it will also work on non-GoPro video as well.

    The software will be available tomorrow at $50 (together w/a free trial download) -- but is being offered at a pre-release discount of $35 until midnight tonight.

    http://www.prodad.com/home/products/actioncam/300582316,l-us.html  

    I'm told that this product offers approx. 95% of the stabilization offered by their high end software, but is missing some of the other fine tuning and adjustments that their higher priced products have.   

    Seems like a worthwhile gamble.    

    By the way -- the clips linked to in my earlier post are direct from the data card -- no video processing was done to the original GoPro .mp4 file.  

    FWIW, here's a PCWorld review of the fisheye removal feature:

    http://www.pcworld.com/article/2031147/review-defishr-removes-fish-eye-distortion-from-video.html 

  •  05-16-2013, 17:21 592763 in reply to 592420

    Re: GoPro cameras, etc. ...

    I've been playing with ProDad's ProDrenalin software -- and it does more and works much better than Pinnacle's built-in stabilization.

    I sometimes have very shakey footage -- and Pinnacle's stabilization does not do an especially good job of handling it.

    Recently I shot some really awful handheld video in a Congressmen's office with a TM700 (17mbps AVCHD).

    I wasn't allowed a tripod -- and trying to be discreet, I felt compelled to shoot with the camera in my lap rather than bringing it to my face

    ProDrenalin does alot to improve this ugly footage. The AVCHD original gets processed into an MP4 file that easily imports into Studio.

    Later I'll post a link. 

    (though its marketed for the GoPro, ProDrenalin works fine with not non-GoPro video as well. There are import "profiles" for a variety of non-GoPro cameras.)

     

  •  05-18-2013, 22:22 593023 in reply to 592763

    Re: GoPro cameras, etc. ...

    BARYE:
    BARYE:
    plemmens:

    If with "Curved" you mean some kind of fisheye distortion then this tool might help.

    BARYE posted about the tool here, he even bought the product and hence might be able to do some tests for you.

    sometime this weekend I'll try to use the Defishr component of ProDrenalin on GoPro3 footage -- presumably it ought work essentially the same with stills ...

    I shot some stills using the GoPro 2, and then applied the Defishr correction. (There are about 25 profiles available -- various GoPro permutations, as well as Canon cameras, Samsung phones, etc)               

    The profile applied to the original photo is posted here -- which is a GoPro 2 shot in 1080 wide, within the housing.   

    (I'll continue this post and upload most of the samples in the GoPro thread... )

     

    this is the ProDrenalin generic GoPro Defishr profile applied to the original photo as seen in the other thread 

     


  •  05-18-2013, 22:24 593024 in reply to 593023

    Re: GoPro cameras, etc. ...

    ProDrenalin GoPro Hero 2 Defishr profile applied to the original photo seen in the other thread
  •  05-18-2013, 22:26 593025 in reply to 593024

    Re: GoPro cameras, etc. ...

    ProDrenalin GoPro 3 1080 wide Defishr profile applied to the original photo seen in the other thread
  •  05-19-2013, 8:36 593059 in reply to 593025

    Re: GoPro cameras, etc. ...

    Thanks for sharing these results.

    It looks like Defishr does a good job.

  •  05-19-2013, 14:40 593095 in reply to 593059

    Re: GoPro cameras, etc. ...

    Awesome!! I've looked at the proDAD software and wondered how it would work. Thanks! Now.... if I can get the $$$ for the Silver or Black.....

    BARYE, since you have the GoPro, can you offer any "real world" preference to either silver or black?

  •  05-19-2013, 15:01 593097 in reply to 593095

    Re: GoPro cameras, etc. ...

    I bought the program when it was 35 bucks the other day but I haven't downloaded it yet. I haven't had any need to fix fish eye yet and I've had no samples to work with until now. I did your photo in both Photoplus and GIMP and it took a few seconds in each. I didn't fine tune them but here's the results, Photoplus first, then GIMP.

  •  05-19-2013, 15:04 593098 in reply to 593097

    Re: GoPro cameras, etc. ...

    Now GIMP. I don't know how well it works for video and I don't know if I could get fish eye out of video with anything I have.

  •  05-19-2013, 15:27 593099 in reply to 593095

    Re: GoPro cameras, etc. ...

    Tony P:

    Awesome!! I've looked at the proDAD software and wondered how it would work. Thanks! Now.... if I can get the $$$ for the Silver or Black.....

    BARYE, since you have the GoPro, can you offer any "real world" preference to either silver or black?

    REALLY good question Tony -- but I've yet to have a chance to handle a Black to do an A/B compare.

    Maybe you saw that I met the chief broadcast engineer for one of the US networks while was out biking (and fiddling with my GoPro gear). We tentatively made a plan to later get together to do a comparison (he has a bunch of Blacks) -- but since he also is asking about how I'm coming with my most recent project, I haven't wanted to call him back...  )

    But from what I've seen of GoPro's own Black videos, if I was generating money from the gear I would likely get that model now -- but not if I wasn't.

    I think the quality differences that I've so far seen between the Silver & Black doesn't justify the money difference (approx $150 depending on where and when they're bought).

    The Black is supposed to be cleaner in low light, higher resolution, have a sharper lens, and be capable of 4K/2.7K.  But the Silver is awfully good -- and I got mine for about $230.

    BTW - the GoPro 2 seems to perform essentially as well as the GoPro 3 -- except its a little heavier and bulkier -- and its configured in 2 pieces with a separate accessory WiFi back (GoPro 3's have the WiFi built in).

    But the real world size/weight difference is unimportant -- plus the GoPro 2 has an external mic input, which is a very useful thing to sometimes have.

    Also the GoPro 2 seems to have a much more reliable WiFi connection -- the GoPro 3's WiFi is maddeningly unreliable (especially when its really needed).

    I'll post the test you asked about (in that other thread) later tonight. Bottom line answer regarding the OP though is that the Cineform converter software initially makes an AVI that uses a specific Cineform codec that PS16 does not have and cannot use (though strangely, Windows CAN play it.)

    The Cineform software can convert those AVIs back to a standard MP4 if needed.

    But that's really a non-issue from what I can see -- that software isn't needed to use native GoPro video to begin with, in PS16/PS15 etc.

     

     

     

  •  05-19-2013, 15:28 593100 in reply to 593098

    Re: GoPro cameras, etc. ...

    I just found your original photo. Here they are again from the original. The GIMP automatically crops the photo and Photo Plus doesn't and allows the user to choose the crop. I had to run the filter twice because the extreme setting the first time wasn't enough.

     

    Here's PhotoPlus first:


  •  05-19-2013, 15:30 593102 in reply to 593100

    Re: GoPro cameras, etc. ...

    Gimp
  •  05-19-2013, 17:17 593110 in reply to 593102

    Re: GoPro cameras, etc. ...

    This has been reprocessed several times and it's starting to look it.

  •  05-20-2013, 5:44 593150 in reply to 593100

    Re: GoPro cameras, etc. ...

    WeeWee:

    I just found your original photo. Here they are again from the original. The GIMP automatically crops the photo and Photo Plus doesn't and allows the user to choose the crop. I had to run the filter twice because the extreme setting the first time wasn't enough.

     

    Here's PhotoPlus first:

    to clear up any confusion, here again is the original source photo 


  •  05-20-2013, 5:48 593151 in reply to 593099

    Re: GoPro cameras, etc. ...

    ktmman:
    Tony P:

    Has the Cineform conversion work in PS16? Following this thread with much interest because I would like another GoPro. I also, if possible, would like to see a comparison of footage.

     

     

    I am using PS 16.1 and have had no luck getting the CineForm conversions to import properly. I get a green screen with audio only. 

    Maybe I have some settings wrong in Pinnacle as it seems to have something imbedded in the clips. Very grainy at best. 

    I will give it a few more tries before I toss it in the trash can. My friend has Vegas and his works perfectly. :-(


    I don't see any appreciable graininess with direct import of native GoPro files. 

    But as to your other question, it sure looks like the CineForm conversions use a distinct proprietary codec that Pinnacle does not support. (though surprisingly, Windows is able to play those AVI files.)

    Perhaps because they know that their AVIs are non standard, GoPro's CineForm software does provide for conversions from its proprietary AVI to standard MP4s.

    In the end there would have to be a REALLY good reason to go several generations converting original footage by using Cineform, for me to do so. In most cases it would be unnecessary and I would not do it.

    (this comes in reply to questions raised in the other GoPro related thread)

  •  05-20-2013, 6:02 593155 in reply to 593099

    Re: GoPro cameras, etc. ...

    BARYE:
    Tony P:

    Awesome!! I've looked at the proDAD software and wondered how it would work. Thanks! Now.... if I can get the $$$ for the Silver or Black.....

    BARYE, since you have the GoPro, can you offer any "real world" preference to either silver or black?

    REALLY good question Tony -- but I've yet to have a chance to handle a Black to do an A/B compare.

    Maybe you saw that I met the chief broadcast engineer for one of the US networks while was out biking (and fiddling with my GoPro gear). We tentatively made a plan to later get together to do a comparison (he has a bunch of Blacks) -- but since he also is asking about how I'm coming with my most recent project, I haven't wanted to call him back...  )

    But from what I've seen of GoPro's own Black videos, if I was generating money from the gear I would likely get that model now -- but not if I wasn't.

    I think the quality differences that I've so far seen between the Silver & Black doesn't justify the money difference (approx $150 depending on where and when they're bought).

    The Black is supposed to be cleaner in low light, higher resolution, have a sharper lens, and be capable of 4K/2.7K.  But the Silver is awfully good -- and I got mine for about $230.

    BTW - the GoPro 2 seems to perform essentially as well as the GoPro 3 -- except its a little heavier and bulkier -- and its configured in 2 pieces with a separate accessory WiFi back (GoPro 3's have the WiFi built in).

    But the real world size/weight difference is unimportant -- plus the GoPro 2 has an external mic input, which is a very useful thing to sometimes have.

    Also the GoPro 2 seems to have a much more reliable WiFi connection -- the GoPro 3's WiFi is maddeningly unreliable (especially when its really needed).

    I'll post the test you asked about (in that other thread) later tonight. Bottom line answer regarding the OP though is that the Cineform converter software initially makes an AVI that uses a specific Cineform codec that PS16 does not have and cannot use (though strangely, Windows CAN play it.)

    The Cineform software can convert those AVIs back to a standard MP4 if needed.

    But that's really a non-issue from what I can see -- that software isn't needed to use native GoPro video to begin with, in PS16/PS15 etc.

     

     

    couple of other things to think about -- GoPro has a history of fairly aggressive upgrades to their cameras. The evolution from the original GoPro Hero to the GoPro 3 is huge -- and its only been a few years.

    Usually they announce new camera(s) late summer early fall.  I got a GoPro 2 late last summer and felt burnt when the GoPro 3 was released not long after.

    I'm ok now the GoPro 2 (because of its more reliable WiFi and mic input), but at the time I really wished I'd waited. 

    And the action cam space is starting to heat up appreciably as well -- for example Sony is expected to release a new small waterproof, WiFi connected camera early this fall. From what I've read it looks very promising.

    On the other hand if you have something you want to shoot now, I would absolutely not wait -- the GoPros are awesome cameras ...

     

  •  05-20-2013, 7:47 593169 in reply to 593155

    Re: GoPro cameras, etc. ...

    BARYE:

    And the action cam space is starting to heat up appreciably as well -- for example Sony is expected to release a new small waterproof, WiFi connected camera early this fall. From what I've read it looks very promising.

    On the other hand if you have something you want to shoot now, I would absolutely not wait -- the GoPros are awesome cameras ...

    Sony has released  ActionCam HDR-AS15 six months ago (NTSC olny). A hasty release to counter GoPro on this market. This cam is based on the captor of Cybershot DSC-W630, a entry level camera. But since then, they have hugely increase their catalog of accessories for their ActionCam.

    I bet Sony's dev team is working on the next versions of ActionCam, with real good sensors. Their level of expertise in this area is well established.

     

  •  05-20-2013, 13:03 593208 in reply to 593169

    Re: GoPro cameras, etc. ...

    Saby, most of what I've read describes the Silver GoPro as slightly better than the current Sony -- while the Black is much better.

    A month or so ago I read about Sony's next generation cam -- on paper it sounded impressive and maybe worth waiting a few months for

     

    http://www.digitalrev.com/article/gopro-hero-3-vs-sony/Njk3MDQ3MDg_A 

  •  05-20-2013, 15:29 593241 in reply to 593155

    Re: GoPro cameras, etc. ...

    BARYE:

    plus the GoPro 2 has an external mic input, which is a very useful thing to sometimes have....

     

    to clarify that statement a bit, I should add that the GoPro 3 does have a mini-plug (3.5mm) to mini USB mic adapter available, that would enable the use of an external mic on the GoPro 3.

    But its an extra $20 -- and much less convenient, reliable, or robust compared to having a built in mic port.

     

    http://gopro.com/camera-accessories/3-5mm-mic-adapter?utm_medium=shoppingengine&utm_source=googlebase&cvsfa=2093&cvsfe=2&cvsfhu=31343434&gclid=CJ6G_eSzpbcCFYqk4AodRFAAbQ 

  •  05-20-2013, 16:30 593244 in reply to 593241

    Re: GoPro cameras, etc. ...

    I am not btw, a fan of GoPro's proprietary "squeeze clip" mounts.  Perhaps others find them fast and easy,  I don't.

    They are for me hard to release if its cold, or my hands are wet or sweaty.  They also have a tendency to break when I'm harried and impatient.

    Instead I use on most all my mounts the GoPro tripod adapter together with the Sima Quick Release Adapters that I've written about previously.

    For the kind of shooting I do (Kayaks, bikes on streets) the Sima adapters are sufficient to safely secure the cameras -- while enabling me to nearly instantly re-position them to other mounts and locations as needed.

       

  •  05-20-2013, 17:21 593253 in reply to 593244

    Re: GoPro cameras, etc. ...

    one other thing about the GoPro tripod mount adapters -- they for some strange design reason, don't take account of the fact that most tripod mounts include a second pin to prevent the camera from twisting.

    I have therefore needed to carefully drill thru the plastic base of the GoPro tripod adapter making that secondary hole. Quite ridiculous. (picture attached)

     


  •  05-21-2013, 6:33 593291 in reply to 593253

    Re: GoPro cameras, etc. ...

    BARYE:

    Quite ridiculous.

    I would say "very ridiculous" !

  •  06-25-2013, 18:44 596678 in reply to 592763

    Re: GoPro cameras, etc. ...

    Based on several posts about ProDrenalin in this forum last month, I bought the software and have been using it. It does do a good job of de-fishing my go pro (3 silver) files but not as good a job of reducing shake. It has no profile (other than "generic") for my Canon camera. It takes  couple of hours for a half hour of video and increases file size by a factor of 5. ( have an I-7 / 3.4 gGHz based computer with 12 gigs ram and a basic video card with 1 gig.)  Most (but not all) of the time ProDrenalin crashes if there is more than one file in the media bin for it to work on. Sometimes it tells me it cannot export a file because that is in use by another program when the only program I have open is ProDrenalin itself. The interface is not, in my opinion, intuitive.

    I wrote their customer service people about the crashing issue, sending in detailed crash logs in addition to a description of the problem. All they could do is ask for more information. After a week they stopped corresponding altogether. I waited 2 weeks, figuring they were working on the problem. After 2 weeks I wrote again and asked them to tell me what is happening with my issue. The never replied. I'd call if I could find a customer service phone number.

    Based on this experience I recommend against anyone buying ProDrenalin software at this point.

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