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PS16U (16.0.1) bug? - Export to DVD - Spurious RTM and navigation garbage at end of movie

Last post 11-26-2012, 8:35 by culpanr. 7 replies.
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  •  11-24-2012, 10:40 563425

    PS16U (16.0.1) bug? - Export to DVD - Spurious RTM and navigation garbage at end of movie

    Getting some odd behavour in a disc project, which I can reproduce with stock assets according to the recipe below:

    1. Start empty disc project (my default timeline setting (UK) is "PAL Widescreen"
    2. Drag the stock video "the-sky-is-the-limit" onto the timeline (I put it on the default track "Media (1)")
    3. Add stock main and scene-selection (sub) menus from the "Standard" folder (I used the menus "Photo Drop main 16x9" and "Photo Drop sub 16x9")
    4. Observe that all currently seems OK; the "Play Movie" button in Menu 1 is automatically linked to marker C1 at the beginjing of the timeline and there is a "Return to Menu 1" automatically placed at the end.
    5. Set the link from Menu 1 button 2 to Menu 2 - things on the timeline still look OK...
    6. Move the playhead about 1/4 of the way along the timeline, highlight button 1 in Menu 2 and set the chapter link. When I do this, things suddenly look a little strange; a spurious "Return to Menu 2" appears over the top of the existing "Return to Menu 1" at the end of the timeline! (Try dragging that marker a little to the left and the "Return to Menu 1" is still there...). You can't delete that spurious "Return-to-Menu 2"; do so and it just reappears at the end again!!
    7. Set chapter links to the other two buttons on Menu 2 to places (say) 1/2 way and 3/4 way along the timeline.
    8. Play with the DVD Simulator - despite the spurious "Return-to-Menu 2" it plays normally and returns to Menu 1 as desired
    9. Export as a DVD image; inspect the created DVD image.
      i. In the DVD structure as displayed by PgcEdit there is a spurious, unreachable DVD-title 2 (TTN 2)
      ii. However, the rendered VOB files are seemingly correct in that there is no unwanted material at the end.

    Wonder if this garbage in the navigation is one of the things that seems to be screwing up DVD-DL creation??

    Couple of screen-grabs attached - one attached to this post is PS16's window showing the complete project with the spurious "Return-to-Menu 2" at the end. The next post will have the screen grab from PgcEdit showing the spurious DVD-title (TTN 2)

    Regards,
    Richard


  •  11-24-2012, 10:41 563426 in reply to 563425

    Re: PS16U (16.0.1) bug? - Export to DVD - Spurious RTM and navigation garbage at end of movie

    And here is the screen-grab from PgcEdit, the highlighted DVD-title TTN 2 has no content and should not be there!!

    Regards,
    Richard


  •  11-24-2012, 11:07 563431 in reply to 563426

    Re: PS16U (16.0.1) bug? - Export to DVD - Spurious RTM and navigation garbage at end of movie

    Does the created DVD Play as expected?

    The behavior seems OK to me. In the disc editor, you create two playback paths for the same footage:

    Path 1 is from the main menu to the start of the footage (grey C1) until the end and back to menu 1. That path spans the complete footage (2min 5sec).

    Path 2 is from the sub menu to one of the chapters and back to menu 2. Complete length of that path is 1 min 58 sec.

    For each path, a title is created. And each title references cells from the same footage. Title 2 does not reference the first cell. Title 1 references all cells.

     

    I do not know if pgcedit shows that, put IFOEdit does.

     

  •  11-24-2012, 11:10 563432 in reply to 563426

    Re: PS16U (16.0.1) bug? - Export to DVD - Spurious RTM and navigation garbage at end of movie

    A little further digging - the spurious TTN 2 is actually a "duplicate" of the wanted TTN 1, minus the first cell. The cell addresses do all point to valid/existent places on the disc, so on a single-layer disc at least, this extra DVD-title seems harmless and does not break disc playback

    Screen grab from PgcEdit attached, showing properties of the two DVD-titles TTN 1 and TTN 2

    Regards,
    Richard


  •  11-24-2012, 11:40 563438 in reply to 563431

    Re: PS16U (16.0.1) bug? - Export to DVD - Spurious RTM and navigation garbage at end of movie

    mpingel:
    The behavior seems OK to me. In the disc editor, you create two playback paths for the same footage:
    I can now see that in PcgEdit - but it's not what I was expecting and totally different from all prior versions 8-14 of Pinnacle Studio I had used. The disc does play (now that I'm looking for it I can see the different title number on the player's display according to which menu I start from...)

    One minor drawback (as far as my own preference is concerned) of the twin playback paths is that play from the sub-menu - when you hit the end of the movie it will go back to the sub-menu, whereas play from the main menu and when playuback reaches the end it will go back there. So could seem inconsistent.

    Was that behaviour put in to cater for the "return after every chapter" brigade (those who want to be able to play right through and be able to play just one chapter and return to the menu)?
    BTW, if I set a link to the beginning of the movie in both M1 and M2, I still get the extra DVD-title, but (apart from the menu return at the end) they are now exact duplicates,,,

    FWIW I am currently trying to make a DVD using PS16, having the same kind of quite complex navigation (multiple dance events with chains of menus) as I was able to set up in quite easily in PS14 - I can see myself having to do a bit of hacking with PgcEdit after creating the image to get things working "how I like".

    Regards,
    Richard

  •  11-25-2012, 7:14 563542 in reply to 563438

    Re: PS16U (16.0.1) bug? - Export to DVD - Spurious RTM and navigation garbage at end of movie

    There is a (minor) shortfall in the "navigability" of the disc on account of using the sepoarate DVD-titles for playing via the main menu or via the sub-menu:-

    1. If playback is started from the "Play Movie" button on the main menu, the DVD player's "Previous Chapter" and "Next Chapter" keys can be used to navigate freely anywhere on thre disc
    2. If playback is started from any of the buttons in the sub-menu, the DVD player's "Previous Chapter" and "Next Chapter" kreys cannot reach any content that is earlier on the disc than the chapter linked to the first button of the sub-menu

    To demonstrate, use the test project I provided the screen shot of in my first posting, and add an unlinked chapter between the start of the movie and the C1 marker belonging to the first button of the sub-menu.

    1. If played from the main menu, that unlinked chapter marker is reachable.
    2. If played from the sub-menu, that unlinked chapter (and the C1 marker belonging to the main menu at the beginning of the movie) are not reachable.

    I believe that the "go back to the menu you came from" feature would be better handled by code added to the menus and post commands of the DVD-title containing the "return to menu" rather than using separate DVD-titles...and as a bonus would also make the DVD structure easier to debug if the navigation was doing something unexpected...

    1. Only create one DVD-title for each distinct passage of video (that starts with a chapter linked from a menu and ends in a return-to-menu), regardless of how many menus it is referenced by
    2. In the code for any mernu button that jumps to a chapter in the movie, set gprm(0) to the menu page number to which you want to return (this value is currently set in the post commands of the DVD-title and works with the code in the menus themselves to handle jumping back to the main menu or to a page of a sub-menu)
    3. Then, in the post commands for the DVD title containing that return-to menu you have the flexibility:
      i. Include an explicit "set" of gprm(0) - overwriting the value that was put there when you came from the menu - to create an absolute return-to-menu that always goes back to the same menu regardless of how you got there
      ii. Don't include the code to overwrite gprm(0) to create an "intelligent" return-to-menu, that goes back to the last menu you came from.

    Regards,
    Richard 

  •  11-26-2012, 7:59 563724 in reply to 563542

    Re: PS16U (16.0.1) bug? - Export to DVD - Spurious RTM and navigation garbage at end of movie

    The idea of a playback path is that you can go through the content in any order.
    The DVD engine supports the arbitrary playback of movie chapters to support two features that were not possible before:

     

    1.     In the old versions of Pinnacle Studio, an intro that was also part of the movie was written to the disc twice. In PS16, the intro can be “reused”.

    2.     Use the same content for a complete playback and return-to-menu.

     

    Another feature is the selective playback. For example, you have a clip with 10 cells. A playback path could be Cell 2->5->8, another one the complete clip. For those cases, the navigation is exactly as intended.

    You could maybe implement all of that with cell commands, but that seems more error prone and there is a limit of commands. You would have to add a check after every cell if the playback should continue (selecting the next cell or the previous cell) or return to the menu depending on the selected play path. Another problem would be that the displayed time does not match the playback time of the path.

    Currently, for a project with one main menu and several sub menus, two titles are created. I agree that could be reduced to one, but this is certainly not in the category of “pressing issues”.

     

     

  •  11-26-2012, 8:35 563727 in reply to 563724

    Re: PS16U (16.0.1) bug? - Export to DVD - Spurious RTM and navigation garbage at end of movie

    mpingel:
    Another feature is the selective playback. For example, you have a clip with 10 cells. A playback path could be Cell 2->5->8, another one the complete clip. For those cases, the navigation is exactly as intended.
    If I understand correctly - does this mean that if in one of my dance competition videos I was to create a sub-menu for one dancer, with chapter links to just his/her performances, if I then started the playback from that menu, all I would be able to get at using previous/next chapter keys would be those performances (and all of the other content on the disc would be inaccessible until I went back to the main menu and down a different playback "path" through another sub-menu)?

    If that is the design intention - giving more than simply providing support for the "Play All" vs. "Play a single chapter and return" brigade, then I can see why it has been implemented with multiple independent DVD-titles (one for each sub-menu chain) instead of trying to do it with bunches of DVD player code (register setting and conditional jumps). 

    FWIW - I have just completed a DVD based on an earlier one I did in PS14; I have a main menu + two chains of sub-menus ("go to event" and "go to a performance") and have four DVD titles:
    TTN 1 - Intro video
    TTN 2 - Whole video (accessed from "Play movie" in main menu)
    TTN 3 - Most of video (accessed from first sub-menu chain "go to event")
    TTN 4 - Most of video (accessed from second sub-menu chain ("go to a performance") 
     

    Regards,
    Richard

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