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What's after Avid Liquid?

Last post 04-24-2012, 11:18 by Sylvain P. 51 replies.
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  •  07-10-2011, 10:49 481879

    What's after Avid Liquid?

    I  tried to recommend Avid Liquid but was told they no longer sell it. What's taken it's place???

     

    Thanks Chuck

  •  07-10-2011, 14:16 481897 in reply to 481879

    Re: What's after Avid Liquid?

    Avid offered a crossgrade to Media Composer for Liquid users. That offer is no longer valid but if you have someone who would be interested, send me a PM.

    There is no direct replacement for Liquid. Avid recently introduced Avid Studio which is sort of a stripped down version of Liquid and depending on needs is a fairly powerful and easy to use NLE. It is more advanced consumer or prosumer than Liquid.

    Other good choices would be Premiere Pro and Grass Valley's Edius. Edius has a very similar interface and workflow to Liquid.

     

  •  07-10-2011, 19:19 481915 in reply to 481897

    Re: What's after Avid Liquid?

    As for the person I made a recommendation to he's no longer interested. We both feel the company does not supports it's products or consumers. It brings a product up step by step selling the upgrades and then abandons it and goes in another direction and forgets about their customers/supporters. Sounds like we have been abandoned and left out in the cold with no where to go. Buying and learning a new software costs, takes time and in my opinion sucks. At least that's the way I feel.

     

    Thanks for the information.

  •  07-11-2011, 3:43 481932 in reply to 481915

    Re: What's after Avid Liquid?

    What do you expect?

    They need all power for the existing programs. Liquid is still useful for many but they have to deal with the features present. That goes so for all programs that are no longer produced. You can use them, but there will never be an update.

    I could give you tips how to install a Liquid version on another computer, but I'm not alowed to do so, or is nobody else. All sold versions are still under their original agreements.

    Use your own imagination.

    If you read through this forum you will see other NLE's that are still available and somehow equivalent to Liquid.

     

  •  07-11-2011, 12:26 481962 in reply to 481915

    Re: What's after Avid Liquid?

    r49miner:

    Sounds like we have been abandoned and left out in the cold with no where to go. Buying and learning a new software costs, takes time and in my opinion sucks. 

    I wouldn't exactly say that we have been abandoned.  You have to keep in mind that the basic Liquid code goes back to the days of FAST Studio of 15 years ago, an eternity in software development time.  The newer versions of hardware, software and video codecs have necessitated a total rewrite of Liquid, which has been done and is now released as Avid Studio.  And yes, it does not have all the exact features of Liquid, but nevertheless it is a powerful and flexible editing program that has been modernised for the new hardware, operating systems and the newer video formats and codecs.  For less intensive editing requirements, you have the choice of Pinnacle Studio 15, or if you need a fully professional editing platform, there is the step up to Avid Media Composer available.  With these three NLE editors, Avid is now offering the whole range of more up-to-date NLE programs from consumer/hobbyist, to prosumer/event and the full professional levels of editing video content.

    If you look around, I think you will find that all other NLE editing platforms are totally different from what they were when Liquid first came on the scene.  I fully agree with you that learning a new software workflow can be a pain, but things do change and there always is some level of a learning curve.  With Liquid being carried and updated many times by Pinnacle and Avid over many years, one can actually say that we have been supported to a greater level than the customers of most other NLE's.

  •  07-13-2011, 7:16 482280 in reply to 481962

    Re: What's after Avid Liquid?

     Edius has a very similar interface and workflow to Liquid. I changed to Edius 5.5 and now 6.03. It works great and is very easy to us: old Liquid users. Indeed during about 2 years we had the public promise that Liquid shoud be uptdated (NextGen?)...but it was abandoned. I am an  old barrister/lawyer  and for me a public promise is a relevant fact.The rupture of the public promise was for me the right signal to change to another not Avid NLE. Like prosumer I worked several years witth Studio, Edition, Liquid Edition and it was sentimentaly dificult to do the change. My post is made with the exclusive sense to show that a change maybe always a positive fact and that I share your probleme about Liquid that was abandoned afterwards a long certainty that it would be updated. 
  •  07-14-2011, 21:54 482580 in reply to 482280

    Re: What's after Avid Liquid?

    Avid held a big event in Los Angeles recently to give a sneak peek into the future of Media Composer. Looks very interesting. See here. Note the audio mixer in the new interface. Looks very much like the one in Liquid including the surround panners.
  •  07-15-2011, 6:54 482615 in reply to 482580

    Re: What's after Avid Liquid?

    Agreed. Liquid's audio toolset was awesome.
  •  07-16-2011, 2:03 482717 in reply to 482615

    Re: What's after Avid Liquid?

    As a longtime Pinnacle Liquid user,(since it's inception)  I've become spoiled with its ease in non-linear editing. Now that AVID has shelved my product of choice, all I'm left with, (and I have tried and learned most every other computer edit system) is Media Composer.  It's archaic User Interphase is an utter major clusterf. I've bought MC and literally Shelved It, in hopes that the future UI will better mimic the very same program that AVID has also "Shelved" when it bought Pinnacle.
    I am NOW betting in a brighter future, with AVID, (as it hopefully implements the obvious advantages of "legacy" Liquid). But for now... I'm left with an, now defunct, (but cleaner, easier, sexier, less complicated, more artistic & fluid) "technical" version of MC called AVID Liquid Pro!

  •  07-16-2011, 7:59 482743 in reply to 482717

    Re: What's after Avid Liquid?

    Here is a video of the Los Angeles "Committed to the Professional" event.
  •  08-09-2011, 23:44 486245 in reply to 482280

    Re: What's after Avid Liquid?

    MPPais:
     Edius has a very similar interface and workflow to Liquid. I changed to Edius 5.5 and now 6.03. It works great and is very easy to us: old Liquid users. Indeed during about 2 years we had the public promise that Liquid shoud be uptdated (NextGen?)...but it was abandoned. I am an  old barrister/lawyer  and for me a public promise is a relevant fact.The rupture of the public promise was for me the right signal to change to another not Avid NLE. Like prosumer I worked several years witth Studio, Edition, Liquid Edition and it was sentimentaly dificult to do the change. My post is made with the exclusive sense to show that a change maybe always a positive fact and that I share your probleme about Liquid that was abandoned afterwards a long certainty that it would be updated. 

    NextGen was not abandoned. They released Avid Studio that is NexGen.

     

  •  08-10-2011, 17:56 486378 in reply to 486245

    Re: What's after Avid Liquid?

    You are joking, right?
  •  08-10-2011, 21:32 486396 in reply to 486378

    Re: What's after Avid Liquid?

    michaelshk:
    You are joking, right?

    "NextGen" has been released as Avid Studio according to numerous posts over the past months, including an early one from Dave Stone (Liquid moderator).  It is not meant to be a replacement for either Liquid or Pinnacle Studio, but is a separate and different NLE, designed to take advantage of the new hardware (multi-core CPU's), software (Windows 7 64-bit) and video formats (AVCHD).

    It falls somewhere in between Pinnacle Studio and Media Composer in features and capability.  Do a forum search for more discussions on this topic and in the Avid Studio forum: http://forums.pinnaclesys.com/forums/243/ShowForum.aspx

  •  08-11-2011, 3:12 486407 in reply to 486396

    Re: What's after Avid Liquid?

    michaelshk:
    You are joking, right?
    Heh, my reaction exactly the same

    VE7AXO:
    It falls somewhere in between Pinnacle Studio and Media Composer in features and capability.
    Unfortunately, AS falls much much closer to PS than that, I would like to. Liquid was in opposite situation, much closer to MC. And therefore received the sad fate.

  •  08-11-2011, 6:46 486430 in reply to 486407

    Re: What's after Avid Liquid?

    Yes, way closer to Studio, unfortunately. After looking at the trial, I passed. There are competitors utilizing native 64bit code.
  •  08-11-2011, 10:25 486448 in reply to 486407

    Re: What's after Avid Liquid?

    Kesha:

    VE7AXO:
    It falls somewhere in between Pinnacle Studio and Media Composer in features and capability.
    Unfortunately, AS falls much much closer to PS than that, I would like to. Liquid was in opposite situation, much closer to MC. And therefore received the sad fate.

    Perhaps, in that case what you need for your work is MC, not AS.

    I did take advantage of Avid's great offer to Liquid users and switched to MC 5 last summer.  I was pleasantly surprised to find that MC 5 has some of Liquid's features and workflows incorporated.  It will be interesting to see what the upcoming MC 6 brings.

  •  08-11-2011, 11:09 486453 in reply to 486448

    Re: What's after Avid Liquid?

    A little of my work is still in Liquid, but most is now in Media Composer. The learning curve seemed steeper than it actually was. Or maybe it's just the view is different now that I'm over the hump. That was a great upgrade deal Avid gave to us. And now, I really like MC. Some of the keyboard shortcuts are the same as Liquid. My guess is long ago FAST intentionally used some of the same ones as AVID. I mapped a few others on my keyboard to match Liquid functions I used a lot.

    Of course, there are great tips on the MC forums. I've "rethunk" some of my editing practices to match "the Avid Way..." But no, I'm not a fanboy. MC is simply a very well designed tool for doing my work.

  •  08-11-2011, 12:54 486466 in reply to 486453

    Re: What's after Avid Liquid?

    RogerVanDuyn:

    A little of my work is still in Liquid, but most is now in Media Composer. The learning curve seemed steeper than it actually was. Or maybe it's just the view is different now that I'm over the hump.

    I agree with Roger's point of view and do the same, namely still work with Liquid a bit, but can handle a lot in MC now.

    The "steep learning curve" that many people talk about can be distilled down to several distinct areas.  The first hump to get over is the visible interface when you first open the program.  If it has a different layout, it will give a negative feeling right away.  The next step is to learn the different terminology used, e.g. "Bins" as opposed to "Racks".  The third area of re-learning is the actual workflow, which due to some differences in features and how they are implemented can be daunting when first encountered.

    The obvious solution is to tackle the switchover from one NLE to another as a project, not an exercise in comparisons which can lead to frustration.  A good training book and DVD-based tutorials will go a long way in getting over these humps, but the best solution of all is to simply work with the new program and try to set the old ways of doing things aside.

    This is valid for any NLE, not just when comparing Liquid with MC.  The actual editing process remains unchanged for any NLE, namely it does not depend on the technical "ability" of the actual program, but on the "creative" ability of the editor himself.

  •  08-11-2011, 13:14 486475 in reply to 486466

    Re: What's after Avid Liquid?

    VE7AXO:
    This is valid for any NLE, not just when comparing Liquid with MC.  The actual editing process remains unchanged for any NLE, namely it does not depend on the technical "ability" of the actual program, but on the "creative" ability of the editor himself.

    I only can admit that this is a wise phrase.

    I still have LE but I do all my work in MC 5.5.2 now. I have to say that this is only possible because I bought a new system (HP Z400, 6 core) with W7 Pro.

    After that, all felt into its position. I could then copy all the tutorial approaches and learned a lot of these.

    So for me - no LE and pleae stop asking for the follow up for LE. LE is history so is the Ford T and the PC XP with DOS.

  •  08-12-2011, 11:38 486595 in reply to 486466

    Re: What's after Avid Liquid?

    VE7AXO:
    but the best solution of all is to simply work with the new program and try to set the old ways of doing things aside.

    What Igor said was absolutely true for me. I spent a lot of time working through tutorials, but didn't really learn MC until actually making the decision to really do a BIG project using MC, not Liquid. It was time to just make the switch over. It is actually the biggest project I've ever worked on, multiple dvds and online videos, both long form and short form. Even had to use timelapse for some of it. That was a first for me. Timelapse in a real job, not just in my fun family videos.

  •  10-29-2011, 3:47 497394 in reply to 482743

    Re: What's after Avid Liquid?

    LewS:
    Here is a video of the Los Angeles "Committed to the Professional" event.

    Key words from the guy showing the preview where "MUSCLE MEMORY". This is why certain things will not change in MC. Too many professionals have subconisious MUSCLE MEMORY for the existing interface. This what allows them to edit quickly and efficiently even if the underlying system is maybe not as good as something else. It's MUSCLE MEMORY that lets an experienced guitar player pick a guitar and just play without looking at the strings or thinking about. It's takes a lot of experience to develop and something no professional would sacrifrice. 

  •  11-13-2011, 3:36 499470 in reply to 497394

    Re: What's after Avid Liquid?

    What irks me most about Avid's treatment of Liquid purchasers is that once they'd decided they couldn't develop it futher, they abandoned all support for the program.  That meant that third party people like New Blue also dropped support.  The product didn't change, and the cost of maintaining the support would have a) been known as a maximum at the outset and b) from there on been a declining amount.  Finally, since it is all but impossible to use Liquid on anything after XP, eventually the base would disappear altogether. 

    For most Liquid purchasers the move to MC was illogical.  Not only does it have substantial differences but is a much more sophisticated product, the features of which most Liquid purchasers wouldn't have needed.  Futhermore, although the limited time offer was attractive enough, the cost of maintaining MC put it out of court for our business.

    I looked at Vegas - but I've now moved to Edius.  Plenty of 3rd party support, similar range of features and interface, and T/GV doesn't have a higher level core product like MC to favour in future.  The also have a transfer for offer for Liquid users which is not time-limited.  Avid's offer is either long-dead or only available on a nod, nod, wink, wink basis ("if you missed the offer contact me directly" via LewS) - hardly the way for a reputable company to do business. 

    What Avid lacked (apart from the integrity to make clear their decisions once made) was a clarity of thinking and corporate decision-making as to whether they wanted to be in the Liquid market or not.  

  •  11-13-2011, 6:31 499480 in reply to 499470

    Re: What's after Avid Liquid?

    Well I'm certainly glad I took the original generous offer to move to MC. To start with we got Ver 4 of MC, then a free upgrade to MC 5, and now we are able to upgrade to MC 6 for $150. That is really generous, considering that it includes the latest 64bit versions of AvidDVD, AvidFX and Sorenson Squeeeze. I don't see any of that as being financially onerous. Liquid was a great program, but I haven't looked back since moving to MC.
  •  11-13-2011, 13:42 499510 in reply to 499480

    Re: What's after Avid Liquid?

    One could see it in another way: the follow-up for Liquid is Media Composer.

    MC supports all wishes ever posted for Liquid.

    If the so called NextGen was ever released, the Liquid user had to go through a big wood of changes. NextGen would never look like Liquid anymore.

    But these are speculations. I only can say that MC opened a new world of video editing for me. Even being an amateur, the program adds so much for me that video editing became a challenge again.

    And following the offers made by AVID, you could have far more sophistaced NLE for less money as for other manufacturors.

    I once was very angry with AVID. They throw out the Pinnacle Dev Team in a not so decent way (as I felt). But that is strategy. And I don't understand that kind of business.

     

  •  11-13-2011, 16:27 499522 in reply to 499510

    Re: What's after Avid Liquid?

    Sef:

    One could see it in another way: the follow-up for Liquid is Media Composer.

    MC supports all wishes ever posted for Liquid.

    If the so called NextGen was ever released, the Liquid user had to go through a big wood of changes. NextGen would never look like Liquid anymore.

    But these are speculations. I only can say that MC opened a new world of video editing for me. Even being an amateur, the program adds so much for me that video editing became a challenge again.

    And following the offers made by AVID, you could have far more sophistaced NLE for less money as for other manufacturors.

    I once was very angry with AVID. They throw out the Pinnacle Dev Team in a not so decent way (as I felt). But that is strategy. And I don't understand that kind of business.

     

    Sef, you bring up some valid points, but don't forget that "NextGen" has actually been released and is called Avid Studio.  It is not a "replacement" for Liquid, but is a new NLE that will fit somewhere into the now empty slot where Liquid used to be.  Unfortunately, it appears that Avid Studio is closer to Pinnacle Studio, whereas Liquid was closer to Media Composer in power and capability.

    I also agree that the upgrade path offered to us Liquid users was very generous.  I too did the Liquid-MC4.5-MC5 upgrade ($500), and now am on the road to MC6 for $150.  To get anything similar in another NLE, it would cost more than that and the power of MC allows upward growth in the future even if all the features and plug-ins may not be needed at the moment.

    I, for one, as a Liquid user do not feel having been abandoned by Avid.

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