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Voiceover bug 12.1 when replacing existing voiceover

Last post 11-05-2011, 23:55 by cr1. 7 replies.
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  •  10-28-2011, 17:40 497370

    Voiceover bug 12.1 when replacing existing voiceover

    Have been working on a technical video for 3-4 years. This has required constant updating as the subject of the video (a pilot test manufacturing plant) is developed. This has required updating the voiceovers as video is added/removed etc as the project has progressed. We are now at the end of the pilot plant development and are heading towards getting the final DVD produced. This has required a revamp of all the voiceovers contained within it. What I'm finding on a consistant basis is the following:

    If I delete a section of voiceover (there are approx 80 voiceover sections within it) and replace the deleted section of the voiceover with a new section - the deleted section sometimes replaces another section of voiceover further on in the timeline. The first couple of times it happened I put it down to sloppy editing as I moved the orig section of voiceover to a vacant section - recorded the new section in its place and assumed that I then hadn't deleted the moved section. I'm now convinced that is not what happened at all.

    eg voiceovers numbered say 1 - 80. Voice over number 6 was deleted and immediately replaced with  new voice over (call it ) 6a. Dvd then re-rendered sucessfully. But when played the new voiceover 6a plays correctly but the deleted voiceover 6 randomly has appeared at say voiceover position 22 overwriting the original 22 voiceover which has completely disappeared. A check of the timeline confirms that what's on the dvd is now what is on the timeline.

    This bug is so obtuse that given the scenario in which it occurs I'm not surprised if no-one else has experienced it - and if it does occur, it could so easily be put down to "finger" trouble. It's only the constant editing this long term project, that has highlighted the issue. For most people voiceovers get corrected/improved, as the tracks are laid down, I suspect it would be rare to re-record voiceovers over a long period of time when there are other voiceovers following on a timeline. It's for these reasons that I suspect that this bug could possibly exist in S14 and S15 as well, laying in wait to surprise the unsuspecting.

    The pain is that I now have to totally listen to the complete 30min DVD timeline after making even one small voiceover change, to check that this hasn't bitten me again. It could be rather embarrassing to have a random unrelated voiceover popping up in unexpected places during the dvd when played to an audience. Fortunately I caught each instance before they went public to the shareholders of this project.

    I'm not expecting a fix - but thought it worth reporting in case someone else gets smitten by it at some stage. 

  •  10-28-2011, 19:49 497374 in reply to 497370

    Re: Voiceover bug 12.1 when replacing existing voiceover

    Hi ColinSmile

    I've been getting some bizarre behavio(u)r with S12.0 Sound Effects.:

    Deleting / Adding & Replacing them, produces the same behavio(u)r similar to your Voice-overs.

    Even-more bizarrely, Applying the Sound Effects collapses the User Interface, in that the Preview Screen physically slips-down over the TimeLine top ToolBar.

    However, Pre-Selecting a Sound Effect & Exporting  that to a WAV PCM File first & then Importing WAV File, fixes it. Go figureIndifferent

    Pretty aggravating, since S12 is my Post Production Editor for iClone, a 3D Animation Film Production Program, these days, that relies heavily on Sound Effects that, under normal circumstances, are easier to Apply in Studio in Post Production, rather than within iClone. 

    I've got a nagging feeling that over a period of time & with constant use, Studio Program can become corrupted & needs to be Reinstalled, for whatever reason. I think this has been mentioned before.

    ADDED - BTW, in theory, Reinstalling S12 Program shouldn't affect Saved Projects & any Premium Content purchased in previous Versions Transferred to S12, should be in S12 Content Folder. Running the Transfer Wizard again should restore the Content to S12, if it's misssing.

    Nice to see the business is expanding - Aircraft hanger doors?Wink

  •  10-28-2011, 21:49 497381 in reply to 497374

    Re: Voiceover bug 12.1 when replacing existing voiceover


    Nice to see the business is expanding - Aircraft hanger doors?Wink

    Rugby World Cup display cabinet doors Big Smile

  •  10-29-2011, 6:53 497407 in reply to 497381

    Re: Voiceover bug 12.1 when replacing existing voiceover


    Nice to see the business is expanding - Aircraft hanger doors?Wink

    Rugby World Cup display cabinet doors Big Smile

    They'll only last 4 years, ColinWink

    At which time, you'll  have an Export Market in EnglandBig Smile

  •  10-29-2011, 9:23 497420 in reply to 497370

    Re: Voiceover bug 12.1 when replacing existing voiceover

    Hi Colin,  (& Peter)

    Nice to know I'm not the only one that has been bitten by the "voiceover bug" that you have described. I don't know about S14 but yes it is still with us in S15u
    I gave up trying to find the reason for the screwy behaviour a long time ago, after convincing myself that it wasn't my "sloppy editing"
    At one stage some voiceover I re-edited even became chopped up and placed in different sections on the timelime and became so muddled that I had to redo whole sections.
    Currently when I reach the stage of doing voiceovers for projects I try to make it a rule to make progresive audio files of just the voice overlay track from time to time as I add to or edit it. This way if I do find that the overlay has had a fit of the wobbles I can usually piece it together again without having to do any re-recording.

    One way I found to check out that chunks of audio have not moved around after doing some voiceover changes is to make an audio only file of the voiceover track before making changes and then, after making changes/additions, I drop the premade audio track into a vacant track below (the sound fx or music track) and compare the two tracks. A quick visual check along, comparing the two tracks, is usually enough to pick up any differences which shouldn't be present. Any areas which look "different" can be checked by playing. For me this has saved me having to sit through 30 minutes or more to make sure that the bug hasn't bitten.

    Whilst not a solution to the bug, I hope it helps to know that you are not alone out there. Whether the above suggestion is helpful for your situation only you can judge but it has helped me from going completely insane.



  •  11-03-2011, 11:13 498109 in reply to 497420

    Re: Voiceover bug 12.1 when replacing existing voiceover

    I encountered this problem too, a while back, which is why I use a separate sound recorder to capture narration or voiceover.  I record separate clips in PCM/WAV or WMA, then drag them to a vacant track when editing.

    But I still have a problem to obtain proper volume settings.  There is a nagging task to "toy" with the volume settings of every audio track so that one does not drown the other.  To add music or effects are usually no sweat.  It's always the voiceover that causes the headache.  Usually, the native audio seems to trump all the rest, but the music volume can be raised, where needed.

    Do people who use the Studio voice-over tool encounter any problem obtaining optimum voice volume?  If a video has native audio, plus musice and effects, which vary over the course of the work, any single voice volume setting might be too loud or too soft.

    In my cause the native audio is Dolby 5.1, the music is stereo, and the voiceover is mono.  Could the monaural nature of the voiceover track be a reason why it gives me trouble mixing with the other elements?  I also wonder if the 'white noise" in the audio track might be suppressing some of the sound quality of the native track.  Is there an audio equivalent to "chroma key"?

    If I raise the voice track to a level on par with the native, the voice is barely audible.  If I raise it more, it becomes loud and distorted.  If I put the voice on par with the native, but "duck" or lower the native, I sometimes get reasonable results, but it's hit and miss, varying with the noise level in the native.  Use of the "equalizer" tool can help, but is no guarantee, and takes lots of work.

  •  11-03-2011, 12:28 498121 in reply to 498109

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    Re: Voiceover bug 12.1 when replacing existing voiceover

    I encountered this problem too, a while back, which is why I use a separate sound recorder to capture narration or voiceover.

    Me too. (I have a thousand-dollar Flashmic self-contained NPR quality recorder, but even a cheap digital recorder works almost as well).

  •  11-05-2011, 23:55 498491 in reply to 498121

    Re: Voiceover bug 12.1 when replacing existing voiceover

    Thanks for all the feedback. Finally just got the project finished. Interestingly I don't recall ever getting the problem re-occurring when attempting to fix a problem - which could be a real hair puller as the problem could just regenerate itself further down the timeline every time you try to fix it. Can't get a handle on what triggers it though as it doedn't happen all the time. I have also experienced the fragmentation problem Mick - it's actually what convinced me this was no sloppy editing problem. With background music all added, I was out of tracks to use the Audio file trick as a simple comparison but worth remembering for the future. I have found that once I started using my good sennheiser camera mic for doing the voiceovers - audio levels were easier to regulate when you have a good clear strong voiceover to work with - but I agree it is sometimes still a bit hit and mix.

    And Peter - as a cheeky Aussie once said it's still "four more years boys" Stick out tongue

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