Hi all -

Haven't been around these forums in a long time and while searching the FAQs / forums / stickies for info on GPU recommendations, I noticed the only threads on the subject were 2+ years old and only related to older versions of Pinnacle Studio (S12 and older) -- or were ambiguous statements by Pinnacle in terms of minimum requirements for S14/S15. A lot has changed since then. Quad and Hex core CPUs are much more common while GPU technology continously advances. S14 and especially S15 really (finally) decently support AVCHD and other HD formats now... providing you have the right system hardware. What do you guys think about starting CPU and GPU benchmark/user experience threads for some current/real world data sets to help guide forum members looking for the right combo of system components? We did this years ago here (somewhere) and the resulting data was quite useful for everyone back then. 

For the CPU thread, a benchmark consisting of a render or transcode elaped time of the sample video included with Pinnacle Studio would be a good starting point. Of course, this sample project is different between S14 and S15 (I assume - I just ordered S15 retail and haven't compared them yet) and there are non-HD-capable versions of S14 and S15 as well that obviously couldn't test HD rendering; and HD rendering performance IS the main goal; SD performance has worked fine on just about ANY system for quite a few years now. Add to that PAL and NTSC versions of these sample videos and it gets even more interesting... I wonder if someone has or would donate server space so one test video file can be availible for everyone for the sake of this bench? (Hey Pinnacle... how about using a small part of your FTP server?)  I wonder if we could coax Bittmann or LvR to suggest an ideal test methodology? 

The GPU thread methodology could be as simple as stating Studio version and GPU model/specs/driver version and whether display works well (along with the results of Test 3D Server from Studio's Tools section) ... or as difficult as gauging how well GPU rendering assists Background Rendering for various HFX, plug-ins, etc. for GPUs capable of such. (ATI AVIVO / Nvidia CUDA.)

So... maybe it's not as easy to bench test NLE systems now compared to a few years ago - due to more GPU technologies and HD/non-HD/ versions of Studio with varying levels of bundled plug-ins these days. However, I'm sure we can come up with a thread each for CPUs and GPUs to share our individual experiences of system hardware VS. Studio version to help guide others (and eventually ourselves) to which combos work best. So I'll just step aside now and see what the rest of you folks want to start or contribute. I really don't have much current relevant info to offer at this point since I haven't yet received S15 retail or built a technologically current editing platform. What I CAN say is the two Phenom II x4 NLEs I built around 30 months ago which run S14U can't handle AVCHD editing (timeline playback freezes/hangs) and renders take forever. Trying the S15U trial on one of these vastly improved Timeline playback response and dropped AVCHD rendering times down to roughly real time. Great improvement! But I'm now building an AMD Hex Core system and seek a GPU that's a good balance between cost VS. performance. Looking forward to your shared experiences! And I'll certainly share mine once the new system is built and benched...         

Isn't it easier to just tell you that my n-videa GTS250 with 1GB ram pci-e x16 works great with HD and AVCHD and the current driver is like 280.16 or something?

 

Bob

rmalsbury:

Isn't it easier to just tell you that my n-videa GTS250 with 1GB ram pci-e x16 works great with HD and AVCHD and the current driver is like 280.16 or something?

 

Bob

OK, and next time you buy a car just look for the words "Works Great" instead of any performance or economy figures

Render times in particular are of great interest to people who make lots of DVDs or Blurays. The price/performance comparisions of Intel and AMD CPUs in the past has meant saving money buying AMD for me. The introduction of the Sandy bridge CPUs has changed everything.

Haven't been around these forums in a long time and while searching the FAQs / forums / stickies for info on GPU recommendations, I noticed the only threads on the subject were 2+ years old and only related to older versions of Pinnacle Studio (S12 and older) -

The main reason for that is probably that the search index is broken - SEE HERE

I'm happy to contribute once a methodolgy is worked out - and can space a bit of server space if required.

BTW, my AMD sysyem doesn't render/hang with AVCHD, although renders are slow. My new sandy bridge llaptop is much faster. A six minute file render can take about 30 minutes on my 955 system, about 12 on my laptop. (I'll mention in passing that Edius only takes 6 minutes for the same job ) 

Software played a big part in performance too. I render a 30 min full hd clip in S14 & output to MP4 HD720 - it took 30 mins to complete. I did the same thing in AS & it took only 12 mins to complete. Both programs on the same system.

jjn:

Haven't been around these forums in a long time and while searching the FAQs / forums / stickies for info on GPU recommendations, I noticed the only threads on the subject were 2+ years old and only related to older versions of Pinnacle Studio (S12 and older) -

The main reason for that is probably that the search index is broken - SEE HERE

I'm happy to contribute once a methodolgy is worked out - and can space a bit of server space if required.

BTW, my AMD sysyem doesn't render/hang with AVCHD, although renders are slow. My new sandy bridge llaptop is much faster. A six minute file render can take about 30 minutes on my 955 system, about 12 on my laptop. (I'll mention in passing that Edius only takes 6 minutes for the same job ) 

Good catch on the search bug! Now if only Pinnacle will fix it...

Were those AVCHD render times with AS ? I've had my Phenom II x4's up to 3.4 GHz but the extra heat generated VS. minimal reduction in render time led me to set them to 3.0 GHz. But then my cores are probably older, less efficient chips than they used by the time 955 was released. I haven't checked the AS render engine performance since the early build so have no idea if this was improved upon with the current build. Must say I'm impressed by PS15U AVCHD render times over PS14U though. 

tonistein:

Software played a big part in performance too. I render a 30 min full hd clip in S14 & output to MP4 HD720 - it took 30 mins to complete. I did the same thing in AS & it took only 12 mins to complete. Both programs on the same system.

Bet you'd see less of a gap between AS and PS15.

Were those AVCHD render times with AS

Yes. I don't currently have S15 installed here, but I think S15 and AvSo are very similar in render perfomance. There is the issue of Intel Quicksync to take into account, which was added to both S15 and AvSo, and I suspect that is where the Sandy Bridge chipsets might get an advantage, even if they are using software emulation mode.

Both S15 and AvSo max out all four cores of my 955 system when rendering AVCHD. I don't think that's quite the case with S14.

jjn:

Both S15 and AvSo max out all four cores of my 955 system when rendering AVCHD. I don't think that's quite the case with S14.

Wow - I'm jealous! Best CPU utilization I get with my Phenoms in that use is ~ 65% w/ PS14 and ~ 85% w/ PS15... What's your trick?

RWP:

jjn:

Both S15 and AvSo max out all four cores of my 955 system when rendering AVCHD. I don't think that's quite the case with S14.

Wow - I'm jealous! Best CPU utilization I get with my Phenoms in that use is ~ 65% w/ PS14 and ~ 85% w/ PS15... What's your trick?

Not sure - I'm working from memory with S15. Have to check when I get home.

OK, here is a benchmark

The Our Nature Adventure that comes with S14 and 15.

Put it on the timeline with SD settings.

Render it to AVCHD using the Playstation setting,

2630QM laptop. S14 2'32 seconds. AvSo 2'02". (Eduis 50 seconds)

jjn:

The Our Nature Adventure that comes with S14 and 15.

Put it on the timeline with SD settings.

Render it to AVCHD using the Playstation setting,

2630QM laptop. S14 2'32 seconds. AvSo 2'02". (Eduis 50 seconds)

Machine in profile S14 4'20Seconds AvSo 3'50Seconds

All 4 cores running 98-100% with both programs

Project settings SD PAL Wide.

I put OurNatureAdventure.mpg on TL. (Length 01:26:08 - size 64.8Mb)

Render to Sony PSP-compatible - High Quality MP4.

System in profile i.e. Core 2 Quad Q6600 @ 2.40GHz

S14: 23 sec - all cores 75-90% (this is on XP)

S15: 22 sec - all cores 90-95% (this is on XP)

S15: 22 sec - all cores 90-95% (this is on Win7)

AS1.1: 23 sec - all cores 73-95% (this is on Win7)

 

Same recipe as Paul ("OurNatureAdventure" exported as Sony PSP-compatible MP4 high quality):

HP Pavilion DV7-3105EA laptop (core i7-720QM, 4GB RAM, Win7 HP 64 bit)

Studio 14: 27 sec
AS 1.1: 28 sec

CPU utilisation never above ~33% - so seems that PSP-compatible MP4 encode is only dual-core aware; for quad-core aware I would have expected a utilisation slightly over 50% on the core i7 (quad core hyperthreadeed)

Regards,
Richard

S14.0.1.7256 ........... 13 sec

AS1.1 ...........14 sec

(avg of 3 runs each)

As Richard says ................... CPU sitting at a measly 34% avg and seeing "activity" on 6 of 8 "cores" (4+2HT?) in W7 64 here.

 

Wow, this has gone badly wrong already...

I used the AVCHD PS3 full HD preset, not the PSP mp4 one. That is an old codec and I doubt s15 or AvSo will be optimised.

I think we should start again.

Here is what I propose. To make the test footage, take Our Nature Adventure in any program and render it to the 1920 24Mbs full HD AVCHD/bluray preset.

Now, with that as the test footage, put it on a Full HD timeline and re-render it to a new file with the same properties.

So, AVCHD to AVCHD - and we know that none of these programs smart render AVCHD (Except Corel Videostudio apparently)

Here is what I get

S14 - 2'21"

AvSo - 2'13"

Edius - 1' 30

Now, I have the quicksync hardware disabled ATM, so I'm going to enable it as there seems to be a new fix HERE

Shame - the fix works but enabling hardware doesn't seem to make any significant difference to the render times.

I'll try a longer test ADDED - no, no difference.

jjn:

Wow, this has gone badly wrong already...

I used the AVCHD PS3 full HD preset, not the PSP mp4 one. That is an old codec and I doubt s15 or AvSo will be optimised.

I think we should start again.

Here is what I propose. To make the test footage, take Our Nature Adventure in any program and render it to the 1920 24Mbs full HD AVCHD/bluray preset.

Now, with that as the test footage, put it on a Full HD timeline and re-render it to a new file with the same properties.

So, AVCHD to AVCHD - and we know that none of these programs smart render AVCHD (Except Corel Videostudio apparently)

Here is what I get

S14 - 2'21"

AvSo - 2'13"

Edius - 1' 30

Now, I have the quicksync hardware disabled ATM, so I'm going to enable it as there seems to be a new fix HERE

S14 - 1:33 - 94% CPU avg

AS - 1:10 - 95% CPU avg

No Quicksync to play with

jjn:

I used the AVCHD PS3 full HD preset, not the PSP mp4 one. That is an old codec and I doubt s15 or AvSo will be optimised.

Where do I find that preset? In "Make File" (in S14) there don't seem to be any presets for AVCHD; the "closest match" I can find is under "MPEG-4" - and use a custom setting based on the "HD 1080p" preset.

Regards,
Richard

Richard - it's under mpeg-2 TS

jjn:

Richard - it's under mpeg-2 TS

Thanks

Now that's a silly place for it as AVCHD is not MPEG-2 - I didn't even think of looking there!

I'll try your recipe on my laptop (i7-720QM) and desktop (Q9650 OC'd @ 3.6GHz) (both Win7 HP 64 bit)

Regards,
Richard

Jeff's recipe - results from HP DV7-3105EA laptop (Core i7-720QM), 4GB RAM, Win7 HP 64 bit. Starting with PAL version of "OurNatureAdventure" (25 frames/sec). Will try desktop PC later...

Studio 14 UC - 3 min 43 sec; CPU usage 90-95% on all 8 threads
Avid Studio 1.1 - 3 min 2 sec; CPU usage "maxed out" 97-100% on all 8 threads

Regards,
Richard

Ok with the latest recipe this is what i get:

3'35seconds AvSo
4'30Seconds S14

CPU in both cases 98-100% on all 4 cores

Like Richard I coudn't find the right parameters in S15. However I now get these.

S14 and S15 both gave times of 2m 16/17 secs. Same time whether CPU was in auto or high performance mode.

AS gave 2m 5 secs.

The nominal ram frequency is 1333 but, again, runs in auto. I fixed the ram freq in the bios to 800 and ran again. This time

AS 2m 16 sec in CPU high performance mode

AS 2 m 21 sec in auto mode.

If this is going to be a useful benchmark then other parameters besides just the CPU freq (and number of cores) should be taken into account.

OK I gave it another go.

AVCHD to AVCHD this time.

Results:

S14: 4 mins

S15: 4 mins 5 secs

AS1.1: 3 mins 30 secs

In all cases all four cores are 98 to 100% used.

 

plemmens:

OK I gave it another go.

AVCHD to AVCHD this time.

Results:

S14: 4 mins

S15: 4 mins 5 secs

AS1.1: 3 mins 30 secs

In all cases all four cores are 98 to 100% used.

 

Look pretty similar to my times & CPU usage on both S14 & AS (my AS is 1.0 at moment)