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Very poor picture quality AVCHD export

Last post 06-08-2011, 4:55 by Mike34. 56 replies.
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  •  03-28-2011, 10:25 464361

    Very poor picture quality AVCHD export

    After export movie to blueray/AVCHD movie picture quality is very jerky.

    Doing well in the beginning but after 10 min quality is degrading

    Did someone have the same problems when editing AVCHD files

  •  03-28-2011, 12:20 464382 in reply to 464361

    Re: Very poor picture quality AVCHD export

    Please provide:

    1. Your PC CPU, graphics, HDD, display, and cache specs.
    2. Your camera make, model, and video quality, bitrate, frame, and resolution settings.
    3. Your project setup parameters.
    4. The disc output settings
    5. Whether you are using Avid Studio or Pinnacle Studio (don't get upset: several people confuse the two and the forums).

    That will help others diagnose or conjecture solutions.

    Some Pinnacle 14 users observe a drop in IQ or pixelation after nine minutes with AVCHD-DVD output, but no such problem with Blu-ray BDMPEG burned to Blu-ray disc.  It's not clear whether Pinnacle Studio 15 fixes that or not.  Avid Studio is new, and users may be at only early stages of experimenting with disc output.  Another poster created a 20minute AVCHD-DVD disc and SFAIK did not (yet) report what you do.

  •  03-28-2011, 15:08 464422 in reply to 464382

    Re: Very poor picture quality AVCHD export

    Here's a good thread how to find your computer specs.
  •  03-28-2011, 22:23 464462 in reply to 464422

    Re: Very poor picture quality AVCHD export

    My system specs:

    Desktop: CPU quad core 9550, Graph. ATI 6700 HD with 1G memory, platform WIN 7 64

    Camera: Sony HD CX350V 

    App: AVID STUDIO no pinnacle

    Bitrate imported files = 17Mb/sec

    Output: AVCHD 17 or 24Mb/s

    bad picture quality begins after 10 min and always gets worser

     

  •  03-29-2011, 1:02 464483 in reply to 464462

    Re: Very poor picture quality AVCHD export

    vida-vdp:

    My system specs:

    Desktop: CPU quad core 9550, Graph. ATI 6700 HD with 1G memory, platform WIN 7 64

    Camera: Sony HD CX350V 

    App: AVID STUDIO no pinnacle

    Bitrate imported files = 17Mb/sec

    Output: AVCHD 17 or 24Mb/s

    bad picture quality begins after 10 min and always gets worser

     

    is this your first video with Avid Studio? has this worked for you before?

    how much RAM? with HD video you should really be higher than what's minimally required... your quad-core is minimal for AVCHD, with w7 64bit, you should have at least 4GB... video is good...

    I wouldn't go much above 17Mb/s data rate... the files can be higher, but if you are importing at 17, then your finished project should be 17 or less... anything more than that, and the computer is "filling in the blanks" itself...

    also, during playback on the computer, using a media player on the imported file, are there any image issues... I have had some quality issues but they were because the original file from the camcorder was degrading or pixelating... AS doesn't seem to handle this very well. of course PS doesn't either... if I get a file with pixelation, I usually run it through PowerDirector or ATI video converter to fix it, then back to PS/AS for editing...

     

    hope this helps...

    Dave

  •  03-29-2011, 5:23 464518 in reply to 464483

    Re: Very poor picture quality AVCHD export

    I reinstalled Avid Studio on high spec desktop with WIN 7-64

     i7 CPU /  8Gb DDR3 mem  / Geforce 1Gb DDR5 / SATA 3 HD

    I also used a new Panasonic HD AVCHD camcorder on 17Mbits /s and output was also AVCHD 17mbits/s PAL version

    Same issue so i think the problem seems not hardware related

    Picture looks very pixelated  and displaced

     

  •  03-29-2011, 6:24 464528 in reply to 464518

    Re: Very poor picture quality AVCHD export

    Would it be possible for you to upload short examples showing the original and the exported clips?
  •  03-29-2011, 10:20 464575 in reply to 464528

    Re: Very poor picture quality AVCHD export

    I uploaded a youtube sample

    It is a cut from original Avid Studio output file

    The distortion begins at 3 sec and stops at 1,27 min

    Source clips from camcorder are very good quality

     Youtube adres:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFfltTxHWRI

    Thanks for taking your time

  •  03-29-2011, 11:01 464590 in reply to 464575

    Re: Very poor picture quality AVCHD export

    perfect example... although mine has a lot less distortion than that... usually for me it's objects/people in motion and it's like an outline around them...

    at first, I thought it was my computer... but I've since tracked it from the original file from the camcorder... mine is the canon HF-S200, so that's  not common...

    I don't know about your Panasonic, but the canon camcorder I have doesn't save video as one big file... if I set to record and leave it running, every 11min 20sec (approx 2.2GB) it creates a new file (AVCHD format). usually about 5sec before the file end and anywhere from 10-15sec after the new file starts, there is a slight defect in the video image for a few frames... PS and AS treat this like a zipper handle and rip through about 5min of what your videos look like... then it seems to correct...

    the fix I've been using is running my original video through a conversion program (like nero or powerdirector) and so far that seems to be scrubbing the video clean enough for PS and AS to edit without issue...

    but, if someone knows what this is and a better way to correct... I'm all ears...

     

    on another note... I have noticed that videos from when I first bought my camcorder don't seem to have this issue... a difference from then and now is use of my camcorder's progressive mode... I was shooting 30i and switched to 24p to get a better look... perhaps the 24p mode is not true enough for the type of production I do (mostly home movies and school events)... I'm thinking of switching back to see if my issues go away...

     

    in case this comes as an idea...

    my camcorder has a max data rate of 24Mb/s (I use that) and it has no internal memory on the camcorder... it has dual SDHC slots and I have (4) 32GB class 10 SDHC cards that I use in it... I've test each of the SDHC cards, and bench-marked them using industry standard programs for testing and classifying SD cards... each have tested well above class 10 in writing and reading. I don't connect my camcorder to the computer via usb... I just remove the SDHC cards, put them in a reader, and copy the files over to my computer... from there, I edit... after I backup/archive my video files to an ongoing data-BluRay disc backup... once the files are confirmed in my backup, the SDHC cards are re-formatted and put back into service...

    I bought my camcorder new,  sealed box, and just before Christmas 2010... I've used it a lot since I bought it... my backup is currently (19) 25GB dics...

  •  03-29-2011, 20:59 464691 in reply to 464590

    Re: Very poor picture quality AVCHD export

    ok, after doing some searching around and playing with my camcorder today, I don't think I had this right...

     

    camcorder settings...

    my Canon has 4 frame rate modes... 60i (plain 60 fields/sec), PF24, PF30, 24F... when I bought my cam, I set it on PF30 and didn't have the issues noted above. lately, I've been using 24F, under the belief that it was true 1080p/24... the cam gives a warning with this setting that it cannot be converted from HD to SD if used... now I'm under the impression that 24F is some hybrid mode that interpolates 24p from a 60i stream...

    if that's correct, then the fields are coming apart in my movies... maybe... and if that's correct, then I really want to shoot PF24 or PF30 (don't get any warnings about conversions) for what I am now believing to be the "real" progressive modes...

    I got confused originally because here is how Canon lists the modes... 60i, Native 24p (records at 24p), 24p Progressive (records at 60i), 30p Progressive (records at 60i)... but they don't use the same terminology as the options in the cam firmware...

    if 24F is truely native 1080p/24, then perhaps I'm on the very edge of what the camera is capable of and for some reason it's not doing it 100%? I may call Canon for clearification...

     

    should I just record at 60i and then let my computer and NLEs convert to whatever I want? since it appears that Canon is doing that in the other modes...

     

    anyone got an opinion on this? am I missing something?

  •  03-30-2011, 11:50 464827 in reply to 464691

    Re: Very poor picture quality AVCHD export

    Unless you need to match film frame rate for some reason, you probably will get better results in most circumstances with 60i (smoother motion, for one thing).
  •  03-30-2011, 18:24 464895 in reply to 464827

    Re: Very poor picture quality AVCHD export

    It's not just you. I ran through a BluRay authoring test today. The source is a set of HDV2 files taken directly from a Sony Z7U Compact Flash drive. These are all good clips (NTSC 60i HDV). I did nothing more than put the M2T files on the timeline and tell it to burn a BluRay using AVCHD (which takes about 2 hours for a 2.5 hour video on my system).

    I see precisely what was reported here; major artifacting several minutes after the start of the video. The artifacts are in the video stream; this is not a buffer issue with the BR player.

    As this is now confirmed on more than one user's system, it's a major issue. I'd like to see how many other user may be seeing this problem. If you have the chance, please author a disk using AVCHD and see if the image breaks up after a short while. I suggest using material that's at least 1/2 hour long. If you have a software player on your system you can just create the BR structure and play it from there.

  •  03-30-2011, 23:36 464918 in reply to 464895

    Re: Very poor picture quality AVCHD export

    Me too! I did notice that if I burned it to a BR disc using BDMV, I didn't notice the artifact- But then I wasn't scrutinizing the footage after a few minutes either.

    AMD 1100T 6 core 3.3ghz on Win7 Pro 64

    12 GB DDR3 RAM, Nvdia GTS-250 video with 1 GB of RAM

    LG BH08LS20 BluRay writer

    (3) 1 TB WD HDD, SATA II ;(1) WD 1TB Passport

  •  03-30-2011, 23:41 464919 in reply to 464895

    Re: Very poor picture quality AVCHD export

    I'm not sure whether it's the same issue, but I'll report:

    Source footage AVCHD lite (1024x720/50p)

    I dragged some scenes onto the timeline, set some simple transitions and burned an AVCHD-DVD with menu (1024x720/50p). Total length abou 19 mns.
    In two scene I can see block artefacts in Power DVD as well as on my TV set. These artefacts are neither at the beginning nor at the end of the scene, but just somewhere in the middle.

    What I noticed is that the rendering from the source material (AVCHD lite) to the AVCHD DVD is very fast (about 4-5 times faster than real time).

    System (not yet in profile)

    • i7-2600K @ 4.4GHz OC
    • 8GB RAM
    • GTX 460 OC (1GB DDR5 RAM)
    • LG BH10LS30 BR writer
    • Win 7 prof
  •  03-31-2011, 0:28 464927 in reply to 464919

    Re: Very poor picture quality AVCHD export

    Hi i'm back,

    i did some more tests...

    The only export type  infected is AVCHD (AVC ) encoded video.

    The distortion begins after a while (about 7 a 8 min) and than disappears for some time.

    The distortion looks like  4 horizontal  displacement zones (you can see it on my early posted example file)

    Please try it by yourself and see the problem i hope that someone can help us out here

    i'm pleased for the many reply's here

    thank you

  •  03-31-2011, 0:53 464930 in reply to 464827

    Re: Very poor picture quality AVCHD export

    mdriggs:
    Unless you need to match film frame rate for some reason, you probably will get better results in most circumstances with 60i (smoother motion, for one thing).

     

    yes, after doing some more reading about frame rates, I think I will start shooting 60i... at least from there I can convert to anything else if need be...

     

    originally I was going for better quality of picture, but I now think I wasn't looking at it correctly...

     

    thanks.

  •  03-31-2011, 1:03 464935 in reply to 464930

    Re: Very poor picture quality AVCHD export

    so if I understand all this correctly...

    all of you guys are having the same issues but only when exporting to AVCHD/blu-ray disc??

    because of the artifacts in the original video, I've see this issue before in PS 15 before my upgrade... PS and AS have always made that are of the video worse than the original... after reviewing more of my past videos, I noticed that shooting in 60i and 30p (from a 60i stream) didn't seem to have this issue... so far it's only from the 24p mode of my camcorder...

     

    is anyone noticing artifacts in the original video files from their camcorder?

     

     

  •  03-31-2011, 2:31 464966 in reply to 464935

    Re: Very poor picture quality AVCHD export

    I am living in Belgium so the exported format here is 1080 50i or 1080 50P if your flatscreen support it.

    The camcorder clip format is set to 1080 50i so i did no conversion of the source clips.

    If i use mpeg 2 HD the quality is superb but the exported movie is bigger and bitrate much higher so my movie player has more problem to read those files without stuttering.

    Maybe it only effects PAL video systems.

     

  •  03-31-2011, 6:49 465033 in reply to 464895

    Betreft: Re: Very poor picture quality AVCHD export

    Attachment: Settings BD.JPG

    I tested a 43 minutes HDV (1440x1080-50i) film captured from my cam. with HDV-Split and burned it to a BD with the settings as shown below. No render or burning problems.
    On my BD-player the film stutters very badly from the beginning all the way up to the end. To bad to look at, but no artifacts and no disortion.
    Playing the BD on my pc with Power DVD, the film stutters at some places a little. Also no artifacts and no disortion.
    Although it looks like the stuttering is a hardware issue, I wonder why my other  AVCHD Bluray discs, made with another NLE, play fine on the same BD-player.  

     


  •  03-31-2011, 11:25 465091 in reply to 465033

    Re: Betreft: Re: Very poor picture quality AVCHD export

    I've escalated this up to Pinnacle. This only occurs on AVCHD encodes. It happens with both PAL and NTSC. There's no particular pattern or reason why this occurs. On my test encode (almost 2 hours long) there are sections where it has artifacts and sections which are clean.
  •  04-01-2011, 13:29 465417 in reply to 464691

    Re: Very poor picture quality AVCHD export

    HiTechRedNeck:
    should I just record at 60i and then let my computer and NLEs convert to whatever I want? since it appears that Canon is doing that in the other modes...

    anyone got an opinion on this? am I missing something?

    Try shooting some clips at the 1920x1080 60i 17mbps setting.  Create a dummy project.  Create a disc image in two modes:

    1.  AVCHD-DVD at 17mbps
    2. Blu-ray BDMV-MPEG

    It does not matter if you have no Blu-ray burner.  This will simply help illustrate if you can vanquish the problem you observed.  Some Pinnacle 14 users observed the problem with AVCHD-DVD, but not when they tried Blu-ray BDMV-MPEG.  One would hope that Pinnacle Studio 15 cured that, or that Avid Studio would not inherit it, but two people here observe something awray, so some changes or workarounds may be necessary.

    Meanwhile, it is also true that some Canon models shoot in a crypto 24p mode that does not reconcile with editors and looks bad when exported to 60i.  I don't know if the very latest models are different, or if other users found a workaround for their "Canon-flavor 24p" clips.  But if you shoot in 60i, DO NOT try to convert to import the clips to a 24p project setting or export to 24p.  It won't improve the IQ and might make it look a lot worse.

  •  04-01-2011, 13:35 465420 in reply to 465091

    Re: Betreft: Re: Very poor picture quality AVCHD export

    DStone:
    I've escalated this up to Pinnacle. This only occurs on AVCHD encodes. It happens with both PAL and NTSC. There's no particular pattern or reason why this occurs. On my test encode (almost 2 hours long) there are sections where it has artifacts and sections which are clean.

    It seems as though this is the same issue that beset Pinnacle Studio 14.  One workaround was to insert a cut and a transition (or still frame or other effect) at points shortly before the sequence before the IQ goes bad.  The other workaround was to exoprt to Blu-ray using the BD-MPEG option.  HDV tape camera owners did not experience the problem.  This problem did not plague PS 12.1, not even with AVCHD, which is why I may cling to the "devil I know" for a while, until I see how this (and other) AS issues resolve.

  •  04-01-2011, 13:59 465423 in reply to 465033

    Re: Betreft: Re: Very poor picture quality AVCHD export

    If you create the disc image with AS, but burn it to Blu-ray with another utility, does the disc still stutter? 

    Does AS allow you any other code options for Blu-ray export?  With Pinnacle Studio, one could pick either BD-AVC or BD-MPEG.

    Does the stuttering occur whether or not the disc has a menu; or whether it has many or few chapter points?

    I have not yet purchased AS, but the questions may bear upon the diagnostics.  Hopefully, Support can replicate some of the observed issues.

  •  04-05-2011, 2:28 466047 in reply to 465423

    Re: Betreft: Re: Very poor picture quality AVCHD export

    ok, I switched my cam to 60i on friday. took my kids up to San Francisco for the weekend and setup my cam on the A-pillar with a RAM mount the whole way up... approx 5hrs drive... saturday we went to Six Flags Discovery Kingdom and spent the day there... sunday, we toured some ships on the wharf and went for a dip in the ocean... I think I got every test I could think of... extreme movement, low-light, too much light, through glass (aquarium and windshield), vibration, and headlight lit (at night)... so far, from what I've reviewed, no issues with my video... I'm not seeing any of the problems I've had with 24p...

     

     I haven't edited anything yet... been working and resting from the trip... in the next few days I'm gonna try some editing and see if I get any of these issues still... I will report back either way...

     

    JKoch:

    If you create the disc image with AS, but burn it to Blu-ray with another utility, does the disc still stutter? 

    Does AS allow you any other code options for Blu-ray export?  With Pinnacle Studio, one could pick either BD-AVC or BD-MPEG.

    Does the stuttering occur whether or not the disc has a menu; or whether it has many or few chapter points?

    I have not yet purchased AS, but the questions may bear upon the diagnostics.  Hopefully, Support can replicate some of the observed issues.

     

    what stutter? we're not getting stutter... it looks like the fields aren't lining up right or pixelating... someone mentioned artifacts... I don't know the exact term, but I wouldn't call it a stutter...

    if you are experiencing a stutter, I haven't had that... I have had similar to what  vida-vdp had posted on his youtube video in this thread... but his is worse than mine...

    I've created discs with and without menus and doesn't seem to affect the issue one way or another...

  •  04-07-2011, 14:43 466681 in reply to 466047

    Re: Betreft: Re: Very poor picture quality AVCHD export

    Same results artifacts showing on the created AVCHD output, footage from Panasonic HDC TM700.
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