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Saving parts of a Video without losing quality - Workflow by towbar

Last post 01-18-2010, 9:35 by oceanol. 24 replies.
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  •  05-28-2008, 19:25 185320

    Idea [I] Saving parts of a Video without losing quality - Workflow by towbar

    towbar:

    This is how I mass produce small individual clips from a single video. This can be done all in one project, and works really well. I typically don’t use scene detection in my workflow, so my original video only shows up as one big timeline without any cuts. To follow my instructions properly, you will have to capture with scene detection turned off. Or you could add all of your scenes, select all, right click and combine all of them into one big timeline. There might be variations of this process, so adapt as you see fit.

     

    Start off by editing the video in the timeline, making all of the cuts to create the individual scenes you wish to have, and discard all of the unwanted parts. When finished editing the video, you will have a series of individual scenes on the timeline. Each scene will be its’ individual file, and each scene will be rendered one at a time. Just to make things clear, if you see 8 scenes on the timeline, you will render 8 separate files from this project. If there are two or more clips that need to be rendered as one file, it’s up to memory as to which go together. Regardless, they need to be side by side on the timeline. Always make sure to include enough leader before and after each clip to allow some extra time for transitions to work properly. Any extra or excess can be trimmed off when using these files at a later time. When each clip on the timeline plays as expected, proceed to the “Make Movie” section. The remainder of this process will be done there.

     

    Use the + or – keys, and resize the timeline to see all of the scenes in the window. This just makes the process visually understandable. Select the file type you wish to create. If the original video is .avi, then the best format to create the smaller files with is .avi. This just makes the process go really fast. Any other format can be selected, but the rendering may take a little longer.

     

    Select all but the first scene, and delete . All you have left on the timeline is the first scene. Proceed to make the file. When finished, hit the keys “Ctrl Z”, and all of the scenes will appear back on the timeline. Delete the first scene, because you’re finished with it. Select all but the first scene again, and delete . Now you have the “Second” clip on the timeline. Proceed to create the file again. Continue this process until finished with all of your clips.

     

    I’ve created hundreds of files this way, and it works really well.  The beauty of it all is that you never have to toggle back and forth between “edit” and “make”. Once you get the hang of it, the clips roll out real fast. If you are rendering to a format other than the original video, the process may be a little slower. But since I capture with .avi, I create my short clips with the same format for faster rendering.

     

    I posted this process many months ago, but somehow it got deleted. I’ve not included as many details this time, so let me know if something doesn’t work. 

     

  •  06-29-2008, 9:29 204163 in reply to 185320

    Re: Saving parts of a Video without losing quality - Workflow by towbar

    Thanks for the process as described.  I am a new user with a family movie in an AVI file.

    My project is so large, I want to tackle it in chunks.  Working on a piece (chapter) and setting it aside once I have completed that part. Then I would start the final project, and just assemble the completed pieces to the the timeline and then output the final product.

    My question has to to with saving the intermediate chapters (files) to AVI file format.  Do I understand you correctly if you stay AVI all the way there is no loss in quality?  Do I need to make any settings - like uncompressed - before saving the intermediate pieces?

     TIA

     

    Henry

     

     

  •  06-29-2008, 9:52 204177 in reply to 204163

    Re: Saving parts of a Video without losing quality - Workflow by towbar

    Welcome to the ForumBig Smile

    if you stay AVI all the way there is no loss in quality?

    Yup

    Do I need to make any settings - like uncompressed - before saving the intermediate pieces?

    Nope

    I expect Mike will (_!_)-in. In a minuteWink

  •  06-29-2008, 11:57 204236 in reply to 204177

    Re: Saving parts of a Video without losing quality - Workflow by towbar

    colour:
     I expect Mike will (_!_)-in. In a minuteWink
    Colour answered correctly, but since he insisted that I jump in......

    Henry, it's wise to break the project into smaller chunks, and save the files (chapters) as you go. It seems to simplify things for me, eases the load on the computer by rendering as you go, and is a safety net in case of some sort of corruption of the Studio project. The described process works well for quickly breaking a video into smaller files. Any other variation of file creation will suffice as long as it works for you.

    The statement of lossless can lead to some disagreement if you are splitting hairs. But I haven't seen any loss of quality by rendering things to .avi again and again. I once rendered a file 10 times, and the last one was equal to the first one when viewed on a TV screen.

    I render my files to DV/AVI, which is the "Full Screen / DV" setting in Studio. I've never used any of the other settings with an .avi file.  

  •  06-29-2008, 12:19 204244 in reply to 204236

    Re: Saving parts of a Video without losing quality - Workflow by towbar

    Thanks to both of you.

    . . . . . . Nice Avatar Mike.

    Looks like some pretty dangerous scoundrels in this forum.

    Regards

    Henry 

    (97 Ultra  Classic 75,000 one-owner miles)

  •  06-29-2008, 18:44 204386 in reply to 204244

    Re: Saving parts of a Video without losing quality - Workflow by towbar

    henryat1140:
     Looks like some pretty dangerous scoundrels in this forum. 
    Yup, we're  nametakers, and heartbreakers. Big Smile
  •  12-04-2008, 18:34 261484 in reply to 204386

    Re: Saving parts of a Video without losing quality - Workflow by towbar

    So are you saying, it is better to save as AVI as compared to MPEG-2?
  •  12-04-2008, 19:49 261509 in reply to 261484

    Re: Saving parts of a Video without losing quality - Workflow by towbar

    MLEHNER:
    So are you saying, it is better to save as AVI as compared to MPEG-2?
    I'm saying that it is better for me.

    Avi edits quite nicely, it renders nicely, and it plays nicely. The file size is the downside, but a few extra Hdds will solve that concern. I guess the biggest reason I like .avi is that I think it's the most stable format that I've worked with.

    The reason I developed the workflow described in this thread is that I usually cut a home video into lots of little pieces. Each one of those pieces is it's own little story. I name those files in a special way so I can use them all now for a video, or I can use them individually at a later date. I make sure that the filename has a date, a name, and the activity that was going on. That way I can search for files that have the same keyword. At any point in time, I'm able to pull all the clips from a specific year, all the clips of a specific person, or all the 4 wheeling videos that ever crossed my desk.

     

  •  07-17-2009, 9:11 323166 in reply to 185320

    Re: Saving parts of a Video without losing quality - Workflow by towbar

    I have wondered about this for some time.  Perhaps another way to solve the problem is to put everything on the timeline and edit it as a whole, then do a cut and paste removing the part you don't want and open another project and paste it into the new project.  I haven't tried this but have thought that it might work.  After you have each project separated, rendering is as usual.  This would be especially helpful when you get to the end of a project and when you go to "make movie" you realize the project is too big for one disk and the quality of the video will be worse.  You could easily make it into two segments this way without having to start all over again. 
  •  09-24-2009, 10:46 340649 in reply to 185320

    • oceanol is not online. Last active: 06-07-2022, 17:51 oceanol
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    Re: Saving parts of a Video without losing quality - Workflow by towbar

    What is the argument for not using automatic detection of scenes? 

    Also, what is the point at which saving video causes loss of quality? Is it the rendering to DVD format or other type of different file?

    Is Towbar's point that he likes to save original avi files, and this is a way to cut down the overall size? Or am I missing the point...

    Thanks

    CW

  •  09-24-2009, 17:48 340778 in reply to 340649

    Re: Saving parts of a Video without losing quality - Workflow by towbar

    oceanol:
    What is the argument for not using automatic detection of scenes? 
    It has nothing to do with the function of the program, it is just that I describe my workflow that way. Basically, if you don't use scene detection and follow the described steps, creating individual files from the timeline is fairly straightforward.

    Lets say that I did use scene detection and had edited all of my timeline, and now am wanting to mass produce the timeline into individual clips. The part that I want to render out as video 1 might contain 3 scenes, video 1 might only contain 1 scene, and video 3 might contain 2 scenes. I would have to remember what scenes to remove from the timeline, and how many to leave on it to create my file. It's not impossible, but there's just too much room to make mistakes.

    The way I work is with no scene detection, so basically I have only one video on the timeline. I make the cuts accordingly, so that only the good stuff remains. When it comes time to make my files, all I have to remember is one cut is one file. You can see them on the timeline, and all you have to do is render them one at a time.

    I guess what might not be obvious is that I never use scene detection.  I like to  manually preview every minute of my videos, and make my own cuts where I want them to be. I've learned to use the keyboard shortcuts like the J, K, and L keys to fast forward and rewind. I've also found that the insert and delete keys are used quite a bit. I would be willing to wager that I can cut up a video faster with the keyboard than trying to figure out the pages and pages of scenes in the album.

    What's also not obvious is that I never edit while working with one solo file. I always start an editing project out by placing my capture on the timeline, and cut and render the whole thing into individual files such as described in this thread. Since I carefully name these individual files, much of my editing work is pre-rendered, and I don't have to rely on Studio to remember what it was.    

    oceanol:
    Also, what is the point at which saving video causes loss of quality? Is it the rendering to DVD format or other type of different file?
    I'm not totally sure of your question, so I'll just add my thoughts.

    I capture my videos in .avi format because it's the best quality available to me. I edit these videos as described in this thread so I can re-use them in one, or many projects. As long as I save them in the original format, everytime i render a new file it's basically the same quality as the first. I've rendered the same .avi file 10 times over, and the last one was no different in quality than the first.

    Rendering a DVD file is a different discussion. Since the video_ts is in .mpg format, it will require a bit of rendering to a different format.

     

    oceanol:
    Is Towbar's point that he likes to save original avi files, and this is a way to cut down the overall size? Or am I missing the point...
    A good observation. Lets say that my original tape is one hour long, so my capture might be about 16 gigs or so. Lets say that only 25% of that capture is actually valid footage, and good enough to keep. If I cut out the unusable stuff, and render the good stuff out into individual files, I will end up with only about 4 gigs of files. I can toss out 12 gigs of video that I don't want if I'm willing to delete my original capture. Avi captures can take up quite a bit of drive space, so the least I keep is the better. In the end, I've got the files that I want, and saved space in the same process.

    I do a lot of marching band stuff, so I generally find more than one use of my individual files. I haven't the time nor the memory to go back and find stuff, so this thread is my idea of how to make things easy.

    The scenes in the album have no description as to what is the content, but my individual clips are quite clear because I labeled them myself. I've never liked the scenes album, and probably will never understand the merits of it.  

    Hope I've cleared up some things, but ask away if I haven't. Big Smile 

  •  09-25-2009, 1:28 340859 in reply to 340778

    Re: Saving parts of a Video without losing quality - Workflow by towbar

    Mike,

    Not that I am saying it is a must but with your workflow it might be interesting to have S14. Hmm

    S14 allows you to export parts of the TL between markers. 

    Unfortunately parts can not be accumutated, i.e. one is not able to export several parts in one single run.

    So if you want to export parts from M1 to M2 plus M5 to M6 plus M8 to M9 S14 can't do that and end up with one file.

    You need to do the export 3 times to end up with 3 exported files. 

  •  09-25-2009, 5:18 340900 in reply to 340859

    Re: Saving parts of a Video without losing quality - Workflow by towbar

    plemmens:
     S14 allows you to export parts of the TL between markers. 
    Thanks Paul, I wasn't aware.

    I'll be checking out the trial version as soon as its available. 

  •  09-25-2009, 17:17 341129 in reply to 340778

    • oceanol is not online. Last active: 06-07-2022, 17:51 oceanol
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    Re: Saving parts of a Video without losing quality - Workflow by towbar

    Very interesting, Mike. I don't have exactly your needs, but I see what you're up to. When I go back to hunt for footage from my old AVI files to include in a new project, I do have to scrub through the whole ancient capture. And since I don't necessarily shoot in sequence, story points are hard to find.

    The problem of storing huge AVI files is a real one even for me. I home-converted a lot of 8mm film to digital, and have it on two 500 gig external drives.  Your point about not saving the chaff is well taken.  But if there's on elesson I;ve learned, it's keep the captures!

    Cheers,

     CW

     

  •  09-25-2009, 20:39 341150 in reply to 341129

    Re: Saving parts of a Video without losing quality - Workflow by towbar

    Big SmileHope you don't mind one more round of discussion, it's about the "real" reason I keep my .avi clips. I refer to them as my "short clips".

    Years ago, I started making home movies with Studio. When I put  one a on disc,I thought that I was finished with that project. I learned at a later date that the DVDs that I was making might not stand the test of time, and either I (or someone else) might be doing this again all over in the future. I had a long thought about what I was doing, and I realized that I was capturing the past, and trying to save it for the future generations to come. Since this is a non linear editing, in a digital world, I decided to take advantage of my time in a better way.

    I started all over from the beginning and re-captured my tape, and would edit it down to only the good stuff. I would render it out as discussed in this thread. I carefully name each clip so I could use it in my current project, as well as future projects.

    I then create my project as usual from the short clips, and render it out to a DVD. I save the video_ts file on a HDD, so I can burn a disc in the future. I also create a .mpg file from the project as well, just for safekeeping. I've got both of these files stored on Hdds, and have backups stored separately as well.     

    The naming of these short clips is most important, I put 3 identifiers in each filename. Year, name, and what they were doing. Names such as "96 Dad Fishing",  " 98 David Birthday 16", or "92 Jenny Crying".   

    If I ever get through with all of my family videos, I will have quite a bit of great stuff to work with. I hope that my naming process with the short clips proves to be worthwhile in the future. It sure has been worthwhile for the present stuff that I do.

    While my kids have been in marching band, I've been the designated video dad for the group. And I've captured quite a bit of good memories for hundreds of kids. I'm in my senoir year of this, and will be glad to get this season over with. I'm anxious to start working with my family stuff again, because I've got years of work ahead of me.

    Sorry for getting longwinded, just thought this explanation might be good to add to this thread. I have repeated some of my previous comments in this current post. All I can say is, "It happens sometimes".

  •  12-02-2009, 17:35 358916 in reply to 341150

    Re: Saving parts of a Video without losing quality - Workflow by towbar

    I'm new to this forum and it's my first post.  I just wanted to say thanks for this thread. I specifically searched for it to validate whether or not my thought process was crazy about how to save files.  Interestingly, I see other people have the same thoughts.

    Being newly retired, I am just starting to capture all of my old video from DV (and other video).  I wasn't sure about what format to save it on disk.  I like your AVI approach.  Also I independently had thought to save files as "YY-MM-Description.avi".  That way they sort chronologically in folders, and as you folks mentioned, it is a lot easier to find clips later.

    As a side note, one reason I decided to save file names in that format is that I noticed after importing and saving out an edited movie that the recording date and time seemed to be lost when I later pulled in that new avi file back into Studio.  The date and time no longer appeared in the comment beside the clip.  So out of curiosity, is the original date/time stamp from my DV camera lost after a file is saved in AVI?

    Much thanks for the great postings.  I learned some tricks and confirmed my thoughts about other techniques.

  •  12-02-2009, 17:55 358921 in reply to 358916

    Re: Saving parts of a Video without losing quality - Workflow by towbar

    PinkFloydRoadie:
    I'm new to this forum and it's my first post. 
    Let me be the first to welcome you to the forum . Yes

    PinkFloydRoadie:
    So out of curiosity, is the original date/time stamp from my DV camera lost after a file is saved in AVI?
    If you create a new .avi file , the timestamp is lost. The only thing that shows up is the duration, if you look at the file in the "scenes" view.

     

  •  12-03-2009, 9:32 359097 in reply to 358921

    • oceanol is not online. Last active: 06-07-2022, 17:51 oceanol
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    Re: Saving parts of a Video without losing quality - Workflow by towbar

    For newcomers still unsure what to save and what to throw away, this may add something:

    http://forums.pinnaclesys.com/forums/thread/355937.aspx

    Christian

     

  •  12-11-2009, 2:10 361313 in reply to 359097

    Re: Saving parts of a Video without losing quality - Workflow by towbar

    I know this post started quite a while ago and is the advice I would follow when working with Standard Definition clips, but I wondered what others did with regard to High Defniniton clips.

    We have recently been working on a couple of HD projects, and as they get towards 6-7 minutes, Studio becomes really sluggish. Sometimes you have to wait 20-30 seconds after clicking on play before the clip starts!

    I thought perhaps saving components of the produciton as I went along, and then putting them together at the end might help. I triedthe uncompressed AVI HD files but (I guess obviously) they are huge. does anyone have a favorite file format to create temporary clips in.

    My original source files are .mts from a Canon HF200.

    My computer has 3GB ram, an Intel Core2CPU 6600 @ 2.40GHz, so not too bad.

    And I'm working in Pinnacle Studio Ultimate 12.

    If anyone has any tips to share it would be great.

    Patch

  •  12-31-2009, 8:21 367354 in reply to 361313

    Re: Saving parts of a Video without losing quality - Workflow by towbar

    Thank you so much for this thread. 

    I am a newbie to this forum.  I am here because I have seriously been thinking of converting to another video editing program but I thought I would give Studio one more chance by seeing what others are doing to deal with problems and to maybe learn some tricks to make my experience less frustrating. 

     I am running Studio 14 Ultimate and have been a user since Studio 8.  I have purchased and/or upgraded every time a new version comes out.  

    The process you describe above is something I have been looking for since I ran v10.  I do alot of sports season highlight videos and usually have to go through 10 to 20 hours of game footage by documenting each usable clip by who is in it, what they are doing and where the clip it is located in the original video.  I normally end up with 8-10 handwritten pages of documentation for each 1 hour original video.  

     Now I can use this process to eliminate that.

    Thanks!

    Steve   

  •  12-31-2009, 16:57 367449 in reply to 367354

    Re: Saving parts of a Video without losing quality - Workflow by towbar

    Tahoesteve:
      I am running Studio 14 Ultimate 
    Keep in mind, in S14 you can create a file between markers. Quite a nice feature to have, and it seems to work nicely.

    I've used that function several times in S14, but my workflow seems to be much faster. WinkZip it!

  •  01-01-2010, 8:01 367556 in reply to 367449

    Re: Saving parts of a Video without losing quality - Workflow by towbar

    Wow...that is cool.  Just tried it. 

    I noticed it saved the audio from the music track as well for the clip...and it would not let me set #2 marker inside the ending transition...any way of getting around this? 

    Thanks!!

  •  01-01-2010, 8:09 367558 in reply to 367556

    Re: Saving parts of a Video without losing quality - Workflow by towbar

    Ok...I just answered my own questions.  I need to do this from raw footage, not from clips in an existing project. 
  •  01-16-2010, 10:19 372254 in reply to 367558

    • oceanol is not online. Last active: 06-07-2022, 17:51 oceanol
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    Re: Saving parts of a Video without losing quality - Workflow by towbar

    I want to preserve markers in a project for which the source file was deleted in favor of a shorter version. For example:

    1. Capture a 30-minute soccer video (no scene detection).

    2. Edit the 30-minute capture down to six short scenes, each with a marker. Project length: 2 minutes. 

    3. "Make Movie" (.avi file) of  2-minute file.

    4. Delete original 30-minute soccer video.

    5. Have 2-minute Project File link to 2-minute .avi file.

    I thought maybe I could rename the cut-down source file so Pinnacle thinks it is the original , but it doesn't seem to work.

    My intention is just to preserve the identifiying markers in the project, but not have to save the whole original source file.

    Thanks

    Christian     

       

  •  01-18-2010, 9:35 372702 in reply to 372254

    • oceanol is not online. Last active: 06-07-2022, 17:51 oceanol
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    Re: Saving parts of a Video without losing quality - Workflow by towbar

    Having slept on it, I now think the best solution for me is to forget the markers and simply break up the original capture into individual named .avi files--using the Towbar method. Then group the clips in their own folder. Then delete the original source file.

     

     

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