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Major Issue, Chrome Xe - Internal Vectorscope Way off

Last post 01-12-2010, 14:05 by Joachim Claus. 8 replies.
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  •  11-27-2009, 23:02 357558

    Major Issue, Chrome Xe - Internal Vectorscope Way off

    Internal Vectorscope for Avid Liquid Chrome Xe, not showing correct levels.

    After importing the Pal Test Pattern (100%), from the provided Test Patterns, and viewing through the

    Vectorscope in the Color Correction Module of Liquid, the 100% Bars appear around 25% too hot.

    However after hooking up an Harris Videotek TVM-900 Waveform/Vectorscope to the SDI Outputs,

    the Harris shows the Color Bars correclty positioned in the little boxes as they should be.

    If I adjust the Saturation down in the Color Correction Module of Liquid, then internally, it shows up

    spot on in the little boxes, but appears as 75% Color Bars in the external Harris Scope.

    What in the world is going on? The Color Bars, are the 100.Color Bars.BSI in YUV uncompressed format.

     Here is a link showing the problem.  Can others verify this?     http://www.picpaste.de/Liquid_ChromeXe_Vector_Int.png

    Cheers

  •  11-28-2009, 4:05 357582 in reply to 357558

    Re: Major Issue, Chrome Xe - Internal Vectorscope Way off

    Expand the CC editor dialog, and make sure you're not actually working in 75% color (you'll find this in the legalizer box).
  •  11-28-2009, 7:41 357608 in reply to 357582

    Re: Major Issue, Chrome Xe - Internal Vectorscope Way off

    Just re-checked that. No, that's not it, is not selected, and if I turn it on (activate it), then they drop down near where they should be!  Anyone else with Chrome Xe (or perhaps also the other flavors) able to check this?

    Cheers, Jeff

  •  11-28-2009, 13:50 357667 in reply to 357608

    Re: Major Issue, Chrome Xe - Internal Vectorscope Way off

    This Issue seems to be hanging around a long, long, long time, as I just cranked up my Liquid Silver 5.6, there, they suppy 75% Color Bars, import into a new project and do the same procedure as above, and.....

     Same damn problem!  The external Scope on the SDI Out shows the Bars properly at 75% while the internal shows at 100%!  And clicking the limit to 75% in this version does nothing. (does not change how it is being displayed.  Also oddly, on both the Chrome Xe and Silver, there shows up around 30-32 dots in the scope while external only the proper 6.....     Could this just be a problem in PAL land?

    Please people, this is pretty darn easy to chek.  Please give feedback.

    Thanks

  •  12-09-2009, 20:57 361003 in reply to 357667

    Re: Major Issue, Chrome Xe - Internal Vectorscope Way off

    Me, in my system, the color bars appear to be correct, both in NTSC and PAL timelines.

    I don't have Chrome, just Liquid Pro. But it should be the same thing.

     

     

     

     

  •  12-10-2009, 7:10 361094 in reply to 361003

    Re: Major Issue, Chrome Xe - Internal Vectorscope Way off

    Thanks for the reply, hmnn....

    No ONe else is able to check this?  This only takes about 5 minutes of Time to include 2-3 minutes of the pc starting and another minute or so for liquid to start.....

  •  12-10-2009, 12:12 361182 in reply to 357558

    Re: Major Issue, Chrome Xe - Internal Vectorscope Way off

    I don't have Chrome either, nor do I have an external vectorscope. However, if I import a 75% color bar chart and look at it in the CCE, all the colors show up in the boxes where they're supposed to be. Please note that I tested this for NTSC and not PAL.

    Just for grins, go into TitleDeko (or any graphics program) and make a full frame of a single color at 100%. Add the CCE to that and look at the vectorscope both in Liquid and using your external scope. See if they match. Now make a frame at 75% color and check that. 

  •  01-12-2010, 2:20 370991 in reply to 361182

    Re: Major Issue, Chrome Xe - Internal Vectorscope Way off

    Thanks for the replies! Was offline over the holidays and tied up setting up a new studio environment, so will look at it again myself and try that with testing a single color at 100% and see how that looks like.

    Cheers, Jeff

  •  01-12-2010, 14:05 371203 in reply to 370991

    Re: Major Issue, Chrome Xe - Internal Vectorscope Way off

    The problem is very old. It is a Liquid issue with HD/HDV video display windows. The color space conversion from BT.709 (the color space of HD) to RGB for display on the monitor screen is incorrect, which leads to wrong color values on the computer screen (including the ones within Liquid). This does not affect export, i.e. the exported colors are correct. That is why you have correct values at an external vector display, while within Liquid the vexctor display shows wrong values. For thos who want to know the kind of the conversion errror: Conversion is done based on BT.601 (SD-colorspace) instead of BT.709 (HD-colorspace) which leads to the wrong values.

    Joachim

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