Crash, Crash and more crashes........................................................................................................................

Been working with 14 for about a week. Had four crashes today.

Am starting to use 12 again. Before anyone goes on about computer requirements I have the best computer I can buy. 64bit with 1gig card, 1tb drive and another for rendering.

14 is slow compared to 12.

 

Buddy

What you say may be entirely true, but not furnish enough to diagnose.  To be fixed, a problem must be reported with sufficient details to allow a repeat test. 

It does no harm to share specs.  Meanwhile, it does little good simply to say there was a crash.  The forensic coroner, insurance adjuster, road police, and manufactuer(s) need details.

Were you still editing DV AVI, you could probably get by with fairly ordinary CPU specs, and not even need S14, either.  Presumably, you've upgraded the PC to do HD videos.  But what camera and video format do you work with? 

Is your graphics card the NVIDIA GeForce GT 240M GPU with 1GB dedicated VRAM?  A 2.66GHz Core 2 Quad CPU?

At what juncture, and with what project type and contents, do your crashes occur?  Does the same thing not happen, under identical conditions, with S12?

 

 

Just read the posts on 14 opinions, I'm not alone.............................................................................

Crashes when motion titles is used.

Quad core 2.3 AMD GPU usage 50% during render.

256mb video 9300 card onboard, 3gigs shared

6 gigs ram

3 drives 1. OS, 1. Render, !. Storage, all are 10,000 rpm drives

 

Machine name: HP
   Operating System: Windows Vista™ Home Premium (6.0, Build 6002) Service Pack 2
         
System Manufacturer: HP-Pavilion
       System Model: FJ470AA-ABA m9357c
               BIOS: Phoenix - AwardBIOS v6.00PG
          Processor: AMD Phenom(tm) 9550 Quad-Core Processor (4 CPUs), ~2.2GHz
             Memory: 6142MB RAM
         
       
    DirectX Version: DirectX 10

 Card name: NVIDIA GeForce 9300 GE
     Manufacturer: NVIDIA
        Chip type: GeForce 9300 GE
         DAC type: Integrated RAMDAC
       Device Key: Enum\PCI\VEN_10DE&DEV_06E0&SUBSYS_90041B0A&REV_A1
   Display Memory: 3056 MB
 Dedicated Memory: 241 MB
    Shared Memory: 2815 MB
     Current Mode: 1920 x 1200 (32 bit) (60Hz)
          Monitor: HP w2408 Wide LCD Monitor
    

Good, so we now know your rig.  But what else was going on? 

To re-use the road breakdown / crash analogy, did the trip go bad while in the driveway, at 25mph, while passing at 75mph, half-way through a 1,000 mile uphill journey, or when slowing at a red light?  Did a yellow light flash and did dark fumes then billow from the engine?  Any funny sounds from the fan belt?  Or was their simply a ka-chunk ka-chunk sound from the transmission, followed by a stall?  Was a puddle of oil underneath?

But did your crashes occcur principally with the motion titles?

What type of video files, what project settings, what effects?

Did the crashes occur while editing, perhaps while Background Rendering was underway?  Did the rendering simply not finish?   Did it seem to finish (no green patches), only to have the project freeze at your next edit operation?  Were the mishaps when exporting?

Other things we would like to know......

What is your source video?  AVCHD?  AVI?  MPEG?  Hi-def or standard?

Have you tied multiple projects (from scratch) or have to been pounding on the same project this whole time?

Can you have (have you had) any success?  Does every project fail?  If not, what seems to be different between failures and successes?  Is there something we can do to try and duplicate the problems?

 

If it always fails, in major ways, then perhaps a reinstallation will be the solution.

Never in over 35 years dealing with computers, from back when they punched and read paper tapes, have I ever had to jump through such hoops to try and install a program. Look around, how many different tutorials are there just to move your plug-ins. Shame on you if you are trying to install 14 ultimate collection to a hard drive that doesn't already have 12, 11, and 10 installed. Those are still on this machine but on the Vista hard drive. I'm trying to do a clean install on a Windows 7 hard drive, but the transfer content wizard can't find it unless it is on C:/.  then you have to patch this, download that, and then fool the wizard into letting you repair Grafitti. All of which is useless unless you want to go back and start installing all the previouse version. Don't delete them, just let them sit there, you may need them for the next upgrade.

Magic Bullet Looks worked fine on this machine with Vista as an operation system, but won't on Windows 7.  Positively amazing, same machine, same video card, newer more efficient operating system and now it won't work.

They make a great program, but only if you leave all the old versions on your hard drive.  Someone needs to learn how to write an install routine.

I am about another hour of this frustration from unloading studio completely and find another editing program.

jackmocc

I have had a PC since the days when the so called internet was a bulletin board. I still remember the first computer I had was a PC with 2 floppy's that were one sided only. The first HD I bought was a 5mb HD and it cost me $700.00. Peachtree accounting cost me $2000.00 . I still have my copy of DOS. Your comments about your fustration is so common to me but I cured it by having multiple computers all tied into a Linksys Server. I am really a pretty stable character and hate the use of a four letter word but Pinnacle is responsible for my use of the word more than once. Now! I have threatened more than once to go to another editing program and actually have purchased Cyberlink and Ulead. I have them installed after going thru hell trying to get my Smartsound to work with 11 up. I did have SS working with 12 but lost it when I installed 14. I got sucked into 14 as a download because of the new features. I learned long ago to keep all the versions on all machines I have. I have right at $1000.00 invested in Smartsound  and learned SonicPro. I am now using that more than ever because my Smartsound doesn't work with 14. Pinnacle went downhill after Avid bought them and I predicted that it would happen. I really believe that all these recent upgrades are nothing more than an effort to produce a consistent cash flow to Avid and not much effort is to produce a product that actually works. I believe that they are putting out the product to maintain that cash flow all knowing they still have to continue the workouts for the bugs.

I've been  sucked in for the last time and this time I mean it. If Pinnacle doesn't get their act together on 14 and I mean PFQ it will be all over in my book for them. The new version of Cyberlink 8.0 looks pretty good and works with Smartsound. Now one might wonder how far I have come with Pinnacle.

7.0 Bought

8.0 Upgrade

9.0 Upgrade

9.0 Plus Upgrade

10.0 Purchased

10.0 Upgrade to Plus

11.0 Purchased

11.0 Plus Upgrade

11.0 Ultimate Purchased

12.0 Upgrade

12.0 Ultimate Purchased

14 Upgrade Downloaded

 

Is that enough experience with Pinnacle?

I have also learned that if you want to work with Pinnacle use AVI DV files only for editing. Really don't want to explain why but will at some point in time. Not now! Ihave also learned to work with Pinnacle make sure your movie and projects are no longer than five minutes long.

Part 1

Part 2

I render all the parts and then assemble them in a final movie. Too many times has Pinnacle screwed me up in trying to do a long movie. I also have learned that Pinnacle will crash and make sure your automatic save feature is on. It has saved me more than once but is a real pain in the butt when it goes to autosave.

 

12 has never given me a problem and I really can't remember a crashing problem. 14 is crashing routinely when I use Motion Titles. I just don't use them anymore.

Their new preview window must be inspired by someone that doesn't need glasses.

I could go on forever about Pinnacle but I self evaluated and said your crying like a baby about something nobody gives a rats ass about so bite the bullet and change it.

Ulead is the choice.............................................................................................................

Bye!

 

I'm going to look at Ulead, right now. Your comment on the original hard drive reminded me when I bought the first XT, the salesmen said "this has a 10mb hard drive, would you like to change that to a 20mb?"  I said who in the world would need that much space? But that was back in the days when we had to right tight code. Now, it's not uncommon to email stuff bigger than that.

The paper tape unit was an old IBM 1050 terminal connected to a main frame in Grand Rapids, MI. We typed all the freight bills each night, punching paper tapes, then sent them through a reader, and all this main frame did was distribute the freight bills to the different destination terminals, also, by paper tape. I was told the main frame took up an entire floor at the main office. I have a feeling I have more computer in my cell phone than that main frame was. But that was big doings back then.

Thanks for the tip on Ulead I'm going to look at it, right now. I can't believe all the gyrations I have let Pinnacle put me through trying to just load their program. I'm like you, enough is enough. I only go back as far as version 9 with them, but there won't be a version 15 on my computer. Not unless they issue an apology and a free update that installs itself, without me having to write batch files to install it.

budtow:

I render all the parts and then assemble them in a final movie. Too many times has Pinnacle screwed me up in trying to do a long movie.

How long?  What format?  What project contents or effects?  Did things go smoothly if you followed the two-phase approach? 

budtow:

12 has never given me a problem and I really can't remember a crashing problem. 14 is crashing routinely when I use Motion Titles. I just don't use them anymore.

Other than the Motion Titles, which various users report cause trouble, what other junctures or situations result in crashes?  What you say favorably about S12 does not jibe with your earlier "too many times" complaint.

budtow:

I self evaluated and said your crying like a baby about something nobody gives a rats ass about so bite the bullet and change it.

It's hard to diagnose or help without more information about what things are causing the failures.  Even if no one can help, it's not true that no one gives a RA. 

budtow:

Ulead is the choice 

It's now known as Corel Video Studio Pro X2.  The Ulead name was ditched.  Hope you didn't pick up a discontinued version.  The fun starts with  installation.  Results of long projects  may remind you of a former life.

Good luck.  Report back in a few weeks, after you've mastered the new tool and the honeymoon becomes The Honeymooners.

budtow,

Your computer is more than adequate for SD editing from your DV camera.  There must be something else going on here.  As JKoch says, other than some reported problems with motion titles, most people who have installed S 14 are able to work in it without crashing the computer, even with HD clips.

Switching NLE's might make you feel better, but in my experience there are always problems with any major, complicated software such as an NLE.  I have gone through several versions of Adobe Premiere, several versions of Liquid (starting with Edition) and also several versions of Studio.  I can't think of one of these that didn't have some problems (some more than others).  Quite often the problem was of my doing (project settings, hardware configuration, etc.), but these forums gave me the support and help that the supplier of the NLE (Pinnacle these days) could not (or would not).  We all on the discussion forum have gone through hair pulling problems over the years, so if you can give us as much information as possible and answer our questions, (silly as they may sound at times, but could be based on some personal experience), the closer we can help you get to solving the problem.

 

I also have learned that Pinnacle will crash and make sure your automatic save feature is on. It has saved me more than once but is a real pain in the butt when it goes to autosave.

Autosave automatically Opens your Project when you Launch Studio & is Optional. It is not to be confused with InstantSave (A Liquid Feature included in Studio since S10), which takes a Snapshot every few seconds, giving you the 3 options of what you want ro do when Re-Launching Studio, after it has Closed unexpectedly. 

IMO, the best way to handle Studio, or any other Viedo Editing Prog for that matter, is to spend some time on a weekly & monthly basis in keeping your PC squeaky clean. & accepting the limitations of your PC Hardware, Software & your own particular workflow, Editing within those limitations.

Just because those who regularly give advice on the Forum don't seek it, doesn't mean that they are without their own problems, They work through them by "Trial & Error". 

Studio Program "Hangs" (Crashes), can be due to a number factors unrelated to Studio.  In many cases (Including Myself), User error. A bad workman blames his tools

Re: Other Consumer Editing Progs - Better the Devil you know, than the one you don't, IMO.  

colour:

 Autosave automatically Opens your Project when you Launch Studio & is Optional. It is not to be confused with InstantSave (A Liquid Feature included in Studio since S10), which takes a Snapshot every few seconds, giving you the 3 options of what you want ro do when Re-Launching Studio, after it has Closed unexpectedly. 

Having spent time editing only to lose my work when Studio crashed I'm grateful for the autosave feature.

colour:

IMO, the best way to handle Studio, or any other Viedo Editing Prog for that matter, is to spend some time on a weekly & monthly basis in keeping your PC squeaky clean. & accepting the limitations of your PC Hardware, Software & your own particular workflow, Editing within those limitations.

How clean is clean? My old Vista install is so corrupted that IE won't even run - I had to install Firefox, yet Studio 14 runs fine. My brand new shiny Windows 7 install however doesn't. My attempt to list my problems on this board didn't even get past the moderator and from my discussions with Pinnacle support it's rather obvious that they haven't a clue.

colour:

 

Studio Program "Hangs" (Crashes), can be due to a number factors unrelated to Studio.  In many cases (Including Myself), User error. A bad workman blames his tools

That is just unfair. Having used Studio for years with varying degrees of frustration and success it's plain that the product has been and continues to be flakier than a camel's jacksie.

colour:

Re: Other Consumer Editing Progs - Better the Devil you know, than the one you don't, IMO.  

Probably true but that makes it even more annoying because if the product was stable it would be the best of the lot!

 

I render all the parts and then assemble them in a final movie. Too many times has Pinnacle screwed me up in trying to do a long movie.

How long?  What format?  What project contents or effects?  Did things go smoothly if you followed the two-phase approach?

 

My split phrase approach when editing comes from old school. I learned to do this with the Fast NLE system. It prevented me from constantly finding and inserting the needed tape in my Betacam unit when a long movie technique was used. I do this know because if I or the customer decides that a change is needed. I can make the changes needed and then only re-render that specific portion of the movie. Because Pinnacle is a assembly program then I can go to my final movie and re-enter the part I have changed. This is a time saving effort as we all know that background rendering will sometimes cause you problems if you are not patient with the software! It also saves me time when reviewing that part of the project instead of waiting for the whole movie to background render. This is always dependent on the type, amount and size of the effects used.

Because I mostly do instructional videos it also helps when adding chapters to the dvd menu. I also limit my segments to no more than a 8gig size so I can store them on a DL disk for archival purposes. Yes I could also store them on a USB Drive but remember I'm old school and I also have a shelf in my closet that houses the failed HD's I have had. I keep them to remind me that Murphys law prevails. That brings up O'tooles law! Do you know what that is?

Mr. O'tooles law states that Mr. Murphy was an optimist!

I self evaluated and said your crying like a baby about something nobody gives a rats ass about so bite the bullet and change it

It's hard to diagnose or help without more information about what things are causing the failures.  Even if no one can help, it's not true that no one gives a RA.

 Alright: Question

I rendered my project to a movie with a DVD menu. I played it on a DVD player and it hung up after the menu. It played fine on my computer DVD. I then removed the DVD Menu and just rendered the movie to DVD. It played but hung up and shuddered during movie. Did it three times thinking it was a bad disk. Same results. Rendered it to a DVD-R instead of a DVD+R and same results. Played it on three different DVD players. Same results. Rendered the movie with Ulead Videostudio 11.5 plus and the movie played as expected on all three players. Why?

Just rendered the same movie on Cyberlink 8.0 and guess what it played as expected.

Alright: Question

Because a lot of times customers will want me to put their VHS tapes on DVD and add effects and Titles to the movie. When you import the video tape from a Movie Box often it will have distortion at the bottom of the screen. I used the effect framer to frame in the bottom of the movie and used black color so it wouldn't be so obvious. 14 doesn't have a color choice anymore but gives you presets that includes only three choices which do not include black.

 

It's now known as Corel Video Studio Pro X2.  The Ulead name was ditched.  Hope you didn't pick up a discontinued version.  The fun starts with  installation.  Results of long projects  may remind you of a former life.

My mistake my copy is Ulead Videostudio 11.5 plus with has just been upgraded to the new name since Corel bought Ulead out. It works fine on both Vista and XP. Vista needs a patch to work. If you want a tit for tat on this my Pinnacle 7.0 still runs fine and works. All updates are just improved versions with added features.If everything was roses why did we have so many updates for all versions?

Good luck.  Report back in a few weeks, after you've mastered the new tool and the honeymoon becomes The Honeymooners.

I've been on a honeymoon with Pinnacle since 7.0.

 

Buddy

 

 

 

I realize that for less than $200.00 you can't expect Industrial Light and Magic caliber software, but an install that requires websites (think: declic) to dedicat pages and pages to just getting the plug-ins transfered says maybe someone is not quite ready to launch their product. The install program instead of looking over the computer, only will look at C: to find them to transfer. Not only that, why a separate routine to transfer the content and plugins?  I have been since wednesday just trying to figure out how to get Boris moved from D: drive or reinstalled. This kind of stuff just seems to be things that would and should happen without all this frustration. Same program, same computer, same video card, and a new, more efficient operating system, and I lose the ability to use, Magic Bullet Looks. You can say all you like about every program having problems, but this kind of stuff can only be chalked up to someone in too big of a hurry to launch a new version. Studio 14 install routine, doesn't even mention version 12, you have to go back to 11 to get the transfer material. You have to install Boris from a repair routine supplied by Boris, then alter the version number to install it to.  Does any of this sound, even faintly like maybe they just might have been just a bit too hasty in coming out with a new version?  If you think this is acceptable from a programming department, then your expectations are much lower than mine, for a program installation these days.

I love the program, but two days to install one program, with plug-ins, exceeds my threshold of patience. Not when I installed Adobe Creative Suite, complete, and was using it, in less than a half an hour. Thats 17 individual programs, and I added Lightroom to it, with the expense of another 15 minutes. To me, you can defend the Avid, all you like, but something needs to change if they want to keep me buying upgrades. My father would have called this kind of job "half-assing it, just to get by". I shouldn't have to fight this hard before I ever get to use their product. I can't even get to a point where I can evaluate anything as mundane as crashes, yet. I'm still trying to get it installed.

jackmocc

I love the program, but two days to install one program, with plug-ins, exceeds my threshold of patience. 

Absolutely couldn't have said it better...................................................

 

Buddy

 

budtow:

Is it possible that you must let your entire segment render before adding motion titles? That the only thing that was different

Other people capturing from tape also voice complaints about S14.  Your experience also might well be tallied in that thread or topic.

If you continue to work mainly with DV or conversions of VHS, chances are you will be well enough off with S12, Ulead 11.5, or PD8.  Since you've worked with successive versions of Studio, any future report you offer on the other products will be of interest.

Best regards to Ralph and Norton.

 

budtow:

Alright: Question

Because a lot of times customers will want me to put their VHS tapes on DVD and add effects and Titles to the movie. When you import the video tape from a Movie Box often it will have distortion at the bottom of the screen. I used the effect framer to frame in the bottom of the movie and used black color so it wouldn't be so obvious. 14 doesn't have a color choice anymore but gives you presets that includes only three choices which do not include black.

Buddy

The distortion at the very bottom is most likely due to "overscan" which is not visible on a TV screen.  The reason for overscan is because the old CRT tubes were curved and a covering bezel blocked the rounded sides and top/bottom of the screen.  LCD computer monitors are flat and don't need overscan, so they show the whole picture.  That "distortion" is actually a synchronization signal for the TV scanning lines.  I don't have S 14 so can't help with any of its settings, but do a DVD burn and play the disk on a normal TV to see if the distortion is still visible.  My very old Studio did not have a setting to either show or hide the overscan, so I don't know if that has been changed in S 14.  My Liquid does have an overscan switch, which you need for setting up titles, otherwise you may loose a letter or two at either side of the TV screen if the title goes into the overscan area.

I use the following method to mask this problem.

Using the 2D editor, set the following, hor pos =0, vert pos = -2, hor size = 102, vert size =102, hor pos = 0, vert pos =0.

Granted, expanding the picture will cause a loss of resolution, but it is insignificant as far as I can tell.

You will notice an increase in the amount of time to render the project for DVD, this is because every frame has to be individually rendered.

In the VHS days, the player would switch from on head to the other for individual fields. This caused a gap and a pronounced switching glitch. Since, as has been pointed out, at that time all TV's were slightly over scanned, the area wasn't visible. That's no longer the case on the digital, rectangular screens. Gain some, loose some, I guess.

Don

Great.  This begins to pinpoint an issue.  Two other individuals report S14 problems with discs, but only in relation to DVD+R DL.  They said SL discs burned OK.  Another fellow, however, says that AVCHD-DVD or BD discs burned with S14 aren't recognized by the same players that accepted ones burned with S12.  This defies my assumption that S14 is S12 with a new paint job, but the same tires.  Odd that the disc burning, which was usually OK with S12, got assigned to Mr. Murphy for the S14 project

 

Good suggestion: I am going to take the same movie and render it on S12 to see if there is a difference. This is an important issue as all your work depends on the customer being able to play your DVD you gave them. Other DVD's were burned with S14.

Will let you know how it turned out................

Buddy

I rendered the movie on S12 and got the same situation. I'm beginning to think it is a driver issue because Studio has it's own driver for burning. I then rendered the same movie (on the same machine) using Cyberlink 8.0 and everything was fine and actually I think it looked better than the version rendered by Studio but would play on my computer. That could be due to the resolution of my monitor. I then added a menu DVD Menu from CL 8.0 re rendered it and it was again fine. 

 

I'm beginning to think it is an issue between S12 and S14 because I never had the problem before S14.

 

Buddy

Having spent time editing only to lose my work when Studio crashed I'm grateful for the autosave feature.

IMO, that would be "Instant" & not "Auto"Save, as already Posted (A common misconception). 

Hi Mitchell

You are totally 100% every bit right !!!! -- No more Pinnace software for me....... Pinnacle 14 is ever worst, than I ever had.........! 

Amen!!   I have had Studio 8, then 9, then 10, then 11, then 12 Ultimate, and now Studio 14.  I love the new titles and effects BUT come on, it's unreliable, and now I have issues simply burning a DVD, and I cant even make an AVI file.  Right now I am trying to create a high quality upload file, then I will remake the DVD menu links *sighs, as I simply cannot wait to muck around with this.  My clients work is backing up, and I think I will go back to Studio 12. I simply HAVE to make theses DVD's, I have no choice.  So sad. It won't burn, or 'hangs' or burns the DVD but then the menu keeps shutting down, blah blah blah.  I really want a total clean install please, it's stupid how many old versions I have on this computer.  I also want to buy a laptop, but fear I have to reload everyting onto it for the program to work.  It's the House the Jack built.  Hugs to all.

The above message is probably the most serious complaint that has been seen yet. S14 is absolutely worthless and with addition of S12 now being compromised when burning it makes all versions of Pinnacle useless if used on the same computer. I have to discover the problem because if I can't my business goes to nothing. I am currently rendering my videos to another program (Cyberlink 8.0) and having to use their chapter system to finish the DVD. I rendered (with Studio 11 Ultimate) the same movie on another computer I have and it played fine. I must assume that this is a problem that comes from installing S14 over or along with S12. If someone from Pinnacle doesn't pay quick attention to this problem I think it will be a serious blow to their product and future versions. I know at least someone is monitoring this forum and they better let us know if they are working on the problem or at the very best tell us that they can't duplicate it on their system. We need to know this pretty frigging quickly.

This will probably be the test of all tests for tech support. Don't rely on this forum for support from Pinnacle. Call them now because I have learned one thing in life that the squeaky wheel gets the grease.................................................

Buddy

 

Hi Budtow - (and others) thank you for your report on S14 - I too think it is a disaster. The content transfer did not work for Boris or Stage Tools, it crashes on import - hangs whenever. I too, have a good system ( I think)  unless AVID have access to a Nitrogen cooled super computer housed in the Pentagon, I have no idea what their promo videos were made on! I emailed support and received the most crap reply ever from a service organisation. I am so disgusted, that I feel this company is on the brink of fraudulent mis-representation of their product, and must be in breach of US anti-trust laws. I am seriously considering taking this issue to my State Consumer Fair Trading Department, and then to National TV current affairs. That should get their attention! Pinnacle are about to release this version in Sydney next week - I think I will go along and hear what they have to say - it should be very interesting.

However, I am prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt - although I have struggled through v10,11,12 (all top end versions) and managed to produce some DVD's up to 20mins in length, I am glad I am not working commercially - I would have gone broke long ago!!! To mount a good case, document everything, (including BSD crashes and MS error reports, time and date them, and sign them.

 I realise that the product is a low-cost pro-sumer one, but Australian law states that the product must be "fit for service"  - in other words, it must do what it is advertised to do. S14 doesn't.

 Keep up the pressure, and go public - there is nothing like bad publicity to jar a company out of its lethargy.

My system is Intel duo 3.2GHz, 2Gb RAM, nVidia 7300GT 512Mb, 3 x HDD's, Creative Sound Card etc.

Skyman