I am in the process of videoing 60 year old 8mm home movies. Since the quality is not good to begin with I want to preserve as much as possible. I have processed a selected camcorder MPEG4 clip of 51Meg through the Make Movie function on Pinnacle 12 Ultra as MPEG 4 and get the best results in playback even though the files are compressed to 10 Meg. When the same file is converted to MPEG2. The file remains at 52 Meg and resolution appears identical but the playback is not as smooth as the MPEG4.  I also used Make Movie to covert the same original MPEG4 clip to AVI and though it looked fine and was the same file size as the MPEG2 it was 1/4 the size on my computer screen during playback My goal is to copy these videos to DVD and distribute them to family members so they can simply place the DVD in their DVD players and get the finest reproduction of these old films. Correct me if I'm wrong but I am thinking the MPEG4 is the format I want to burn on the DVD's. I have not burned anything to DVD so the above camparisons were made on my computer screen (see equipment profie). I would like to hear from someone who can clear this up for me. Thank you.

Capture to an avi file. (least compression)  

Edit to create your final movie.

Use Make Movie to create a DVD with less that 68 minutes (for single layer DVD) so that there is no additional compression induced. The Make DVD step automatically creates mpeg2 files (VOB files) for burning to DVD. 

There are variables within each of these steps, but this is an overview of getting the best quality from 8mm film.

How you capture from the film to tape/avi file is as important in terms of quality as all the rest of the steps put together.

 

I'm not up on HDD cameras, but what is strange is that the original was small after the conversion.

Place the original mpeg4 file on the timeline, and look directly above and to the left of the orange rendering bar on the timeline. Hover your mouse on the name of the file, and in a few moments a little window will appear that will show the aspect, codec, ect of your file. Post that up here on the forum.

I agree 100% with bsdennis.

If you can't capture to AVI yourself, find a place in your area that can capture the film for you.Not all camcorders are suited to capturing 8mm film since it could have been shot at 16, 18, or 24 fps depending on whether it was silent or with sound and sync problems arise because of it.

Have them put the video on a dvd as uncompressed avi's, not mpeg-2 which they may want to do. If possible, you should clean the film beforehand. Info on that can be googled.

If it's worth your time to archive this video, it's worth doing it right. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt to prove it  

Joe

HD1280X720/30p

16:9 progressive 29.97 frames/sec

Codec MPEG2 (preview)

My camera captures via MPEG4 so I don't know why the program  caprures at MPEG2.

I will try to capture as AVI. I did not use the capture feature. I originally transferred my vids from the camcorder to a folder then uploaded them to Pinnacle via the folder. I will redo with tha capture function and get back.....

Nik Boldrini:

16:9 progressive 

Just an observation, there are settings in either make disc, or make file, where you might need to have progressive encoding turned on for things to work as they should.

Nik Boldrini:

I will try to capture as AVI. I did not use the capture feature. I originally transferred my vids from the camcorder to a folder then uploaded them to Pinnacle via the folder. I will redo with tha capture function and get back.....

You shouldn't need to capture as your videos are already digital. However you may need to convert it if it fails to import though.

Marc P.:

You shouldn't need to capture as your videos are already digital. However you may need to convert it if it fails to import though.

He's trying to transfer 8mm film which is most definitely not digital

Several of us suggested  that he try to do the initial capture as AVI rather than mpeg4 since avi is the best medium for editing and would cause the least amount of degradation.

loosecannon:

Marc P.:

You shouldn't need to capture as your videos are already digital. However you may need to convert it if it fails to import though.

He's trying to transfer 8mm film which is most definitely not digital

Several of us suggested  that he try to do the initial capture as AVI rather than mpeg4 since avi is the best medium for editing and would cause the least amount of degradation.

Missed that first part. I do however agree with your suggestion with AVI.

The films are projected onto a white screen and shot with a Samsung sc hmx10 which formats to MPEG4. I use the fine HD setting and not the superfine on the camera. It uploads fine from a folder into Pinnacle as MPEG 4. Should It convert to AVI before I edit and add titles or leave it as MPEG4? I want to have the resulting video burned to a DVD so I can send it to relatives that have no computer. I want them to be able to put the disc in their DVD player and watch the video.

Nik Boldrini:

The films are projected onto a white screen and shot with a Samsung sc hmx10 which formats to MPEG4. I use the fine HD setting and not the superfine on the camera. It uploads fine from a folder into Pinnacle as MPEG 4. Should It convert to AVI before I edit and add titles or leave it as MPEG4? I want to have the resulting video burned to a DVD so I can send it to relatives that have no computer. I want them to be able to put the disc in their DVD player and watch the video.

MPEG4 to AVI should help in the editing department. It's recommended that you would convert to AVI initially.

Nik Boldrini:

The films are projected onto a white screen and shot with a Samsung sc hmx10 which formats to MPEG4. I use the fine HD setting and not the superfine on the camera. It uploads fine from a folder into Pinnacle as MPEG 4. Should It convert to AVI before I edit and add titles or leave it as MPEG4? I want to have the resulting video burned to a DVD so I can send it to relatives that have no computer. I want them to be able to put the disc in their DVD player and watch the video.

 imho, you probably won't gain anything by converting to AVI once you've captured it as an mpeg-4. Ideally, you'd want to make the initial capture as AVI but if you can't, you can't. So fly with what you have.

I'd suggest, if possible, that instead of using a white screen, you use a slightly gray screen. Most people who do it themselves say the gray does a better job than white of capturing the truest color.

Once you finish editing, it will all be converted to mpeg-2 in Make Movie to create the dvd files.

Joe 

I would still be concerned about the difference in frame rate of 8mm film (typically 15-16 fps) vs 30 fps (29.97) for NTSC television.

We capture 8000 - 9000 ft per month with a frame by frame method using a 3-CCD camera via Firewire to avi files in a custom built computer. We capture directly off the emulsion vs. projecting onto a screen. We then use software to "double" the frame rate, duplicating each frame to eliminate the flicker inherent with 15 fps film. More of our customers are editing their own film/video so we have added a service in the last few months. We copy the resultant avi files to a customer provided external HDD and ship it back to the customer. The video should remain in avi format until the final render to DVD.

We have transferred over 1.4 million feet of 8mm film using this method and have had ZERO complaints/returns. If you are seeking the best quality transfer, please find a company in your area that follows the steps above.  

You will not regret it.

 Steve

Digital Concepts

 

bsdennis:

I would still be concerned about the difference in frame rate of 8mm film (typically 15-16 fps) vs 30 fps (29.97) for NTSC television.

We capture 8000 - 9000 ft per month with a frame by frame method using a 3-CCD camera via Firewire to avi files in a custom built computer. We capture directly off the emulsion vs. projecting onto a screen. We then use software to "double" the frame rate, duplicating each frame to eliminate the flicker inherent with 15 fps film. More of our customers are editing their own film/video so we have added a service in the last few months. We copy the resultant avi files to a customer provided external HDD and ship it back to the customer. The video should remain in avi format until the final render to DVD.

We have transferred over 1.4 million feet of 8mm film using this method and have had ZERO complaints/returns. If you are seeking the best quality transfer, please find a company in your area that follows the steps above.  

You will not regret it.

 Steve

Digital Concepts

 

Mind sharing the capture settings that you use?

Capture Format is MPEG1/2 at High Quality DVD. Even though it only gives me 2 choices for format (the other being DV) When I look at the file it is MPEG whick is the cameras format.

 I tried gray screen and the contrast is a little better but some of the scenes are quite dark so I switch back and forth to white and gray. The results are very nice. I slow the projected film down to the lowest speed and the flicker goes away inteirely. I can't afford to have it done as I have over 10,000 feet. I have to clean all that footage too so I am going to do everything myself.

Nik Boldrini:

I can't afford to have it done as I have over 10,000 feet. I have to clean all that footage too so I am going to do everything myself.

Looks like you'll be busy this weekend then. Good luck with your project. I hope you can post sample clips too.

I have the test-intro to the movie on Youtube. The first clips are 8mm from the 60's. The older movies from the 30's are still in the cleaning process.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dherhv3Wyn4

 

Thanks for everyones help so far. Nik

Thanks for the link.

Because of the frame-rate issues and the other difficulties of transferring film to video with a camcorder, I would suggest a good commercial service, ideally one that converts to DV format, which is minimally compressed and easily edited within Studio. (Of course, then you will need a device that can play Mini-DV tapes in order to capture the video, but any Mini-DV camcorder will do for that.) I've used http://www.film-to-video.com with excellent results. Doing it with a camcorder, especially one that delivers 16:9 MPEG-4 HD for a project that ultimately will be 4:3 MPEG-2 SD on DVD, is really going at it the hard (albeit cheaper) way.

By recommending this site for this service, I'm assuming that you are pleased with the results. Do you have any sample videos that maybe the OP could probably see in order to compare with his/her transfer.

I could gin something up I imagine. Can I upload clips here? Any preferred format?

Michael

Marc P.:

By recommending this site for this service, I'm assuming that you are pleased with the results. 

I'll second that suggestion about Film to Video transfer services, they have done an excellent job for me. It's pricey, but the quality is excellent.

Nik, I commend you for doing these captures yourself. 10,000 ft is a lot of film, and would take a chunk of your paycheck to transfer. Just keep the frame-by-frame process in mind if you run across some footage that is priceless, and worthy of archival.

[insert advertisement] If I ever have a need for some more transfer, I'm going to keep Steve Dennis in mind. I studied his earlier explanation of his process, and it sounds like the same process that I've had done in the past. [/end of advertisement]

Upload a sample clip in mediafire if you could and post the link here.

Marc P.:

bsdennis:

I would still be concerned about the difference in frame rate of 8mm film (typically 15-16 fps) vs 30 fps (29.97) for NTSC television.

We capture 8000 - 9000 ft per month with a frame by frame method using a 3-CCD camera via Firewire to avi files in a custom built computer. We capture directly off the emulsion vs. projecting onto a screen. We then use software to "double" the frame rate, duplicating each frame to eliminate the flicker inherent with 15 fps film. More of our customers are editing their own film/video so we have added a service in the last few months. We copy the resultant avi files to a customer provided external HDD and ship it back to the customer. The video should remain in avi format until the final render to DVD.

We have transferred over 1.4 million feet of 8mm film using this method and have had ZERO complaints/returns. If you are seeking the best quality transfer, please find a company in your area that follows the steps above.  

You will not regret it.

 Steve

Digital Concepts

 

Mind sharing the capture settings that you use?

Sorry for the delayed response Marc...

I use a third party software to capture to avi. CineCap is written specifically for the WorkPrinter series of frame-by-frame capture equipment. This software also provides frame rate manipulation.

I tried various schemes to do this directly in Studio (and Liquid) with no substantial success.