Everything is working so well. I do a half hour TV programme each week and everything works sweet. Can this last? Mind you, it is not HD.

Yes isn't wonderful. Altough I'm looking forward to NextGen, I really am not fused, as AL 7.2 works so well, and believe it or not, after all these years, I still find little gems (from this forum)  that i didn't know about.

Last week, did a 3 x 8 minute corporates, shot, scipted, voice over, edited and generated to DVD...almost (it seems) in second flat.

I just love it

regards

Pete Rhodes

Australia

I think the point is that there will come an end to XP. And so, also to Liquid. Yes, of course, with some "corrections" it can be made working. Also in Windows 7. And with expensive extra tools, you can make HD (BR) DVD's.

The other point is that we own a valuable (in money) product that after some time just could be dumped. This goes for a lot of products.

What we need in the future, is a product that is state of the art. Working for a "long" time on always growing (in speed and capacity) computer systems.

But also the need for attachmenets or add-ons that will help to produce sophisticated video's. Especially for those who have to earn their money with it.

And that is the problem with Avid. They have left us with a dieing product in a dieing system (XP). No sign at all of NextGen, which I believe, is now also burried.

And as I said many times before: the problems arised when Avid took over Pinnacle. That was the biggest mistake ever made.

Other products now show up. Not too expensive (like MC). Edius could be the Nextgen you're looking for.

And it is not Avid.

Both Adobe and Apple have strong midlevel suites that have been used for high end work, there is general confidence that these vendors are in it for the long haul, and development is visible enough to the editing communities that there is reason for their user base to stick with them.

Liquid was an extremely capable all-in one product that could run with the big boy. Perhaps the big boy felt uncomfortable with such a capable sibling on his heels, or the not invented here politics that used to be so prevalent in corporate mergers was in play.

Adobe has a good combo with its Premiere and Photoshop Elements package that with a couple of improvements could eclipse Studio. I doubt Apple is sleeping here either.

At this point in time, It probably would benefit Avid to lift the tent flaps a bit. If there is a good product in the final stages of development, letting the media get a sniff couldn't hurt. Honestly, the more time that passes encourages people to take advantage ot the many 30 day trials that competitors offer and some of them are pretty decent.

DVDit is a great example of stagnant development. The forums are virtually deserted, no sign of company interest or involvement. I downloaded TmpGe Authoring Works 4, and was very impressed with the encoding options and the thumnail picture detail and crispness. It sells for $99us, $79 it you already have one of their products. Patches and revisions are released regularly. While DVDit does certain things with more elegance, AW4 is not far off the mark. I purchased the product.

As I do primarily HDV, Liquid serves me well at this time, excepting for the audio limitations (48kbs/16bit pcm).

Of course I will drive Liquid till the wheels fall off. I am very impressed with Windows 7 Microsoft has done the right thing this time. Based on my experience with W7 Beta and RC, I took advantage of the pre-order half price upgrade offer. I will be looking at a 64bit install. I wonder what editing apps will be ready with 64 bit versions when the time comes? Some are ready now? Will this make editing the highly compressed AVCHD format acceptable without dealing with interemediate codecs or proxy editing?

But I am open to other possibilities. I doubt I am alone. 

Sef:

I think the point is that there will come an end to XP. And so, also to Liquid. Yes, of course, with some "corrections" it can be made working. Also in Windows 7. And with expensive extra tools, you can make HD (BR) DVD's.

The other point is that we own a valuable (in money) product that after some time just could be dumped. This goes for a lot of products.

What we need in the future, is a product that is state of the art. Working for a "long" time on always growing (in speed and capacity) computer systems.

But also the need for attachmenets or add-ons that will help to produce sophisticated video's. Especially for those who have to earn their money with it.

And that is the problem with Avid. They have left us with a dieing product in a dieing system (XP). No sign at all of NextGen, which I believe, is now also burried.

And as I said many times before: the problems arised when Avid took over Pinnacle. That was the biggest mistake ever made.

Other products now show up. Not too expensive (like MC). Edius could be the Nextgen you're looking for.

And it is not Avid.

I can say I'm NOT bored with Liquid. But what I can say is that for a long, long time I have NOT given Pinnacle or Avid a penny of my Computer software or hardware funds. Yet I have spent lots of money on other vendors computer "stuff". Why, plain and simple, Avid has not offered anything I want. But hey! if that's the way Avid wants to run a company, not that they're asking but okay by me

 

>> Of course I will drive Liquid till the wheels fall off. I am very impressed with Windows 7 Microsoft has done the right thing this time. (I agree. They are both very good)

 No I'm not bored with Liquid. It works and works well. But one day this peace will end and I am  not looking forward to having to re-learn and that will most probably be "Final Cut". In this country I think that the majority of small professional editing houses and wedding editors will be using "Apple". Outside of TV land, FCP already has a large user base through being promoted in training schools, and it is pretty much too late for "Next Gem" if it ever comes. For the small business person, FCP and its associated awesome audio production tool "soundtrack pro", coupled with Photoshop. You can pretty much take on any job.  

 

 

I  think the point is that there will come an end to XP.

why do you think Microsoft will kill XP ? - they are still supporting windows 2000

Windows XP Mainstream support ended April 14, 2009.  Extended support (security patches only) ends August 30, 2014.

Windows 2000 Mainstream support ended June 30, 2005. Extended support ends on July 13, 2010.

Windows XP is essentially dead at this point.  XP mainstream support was extended because MS was still allowing some oems to install XP on netbooks, but with Windows 7 being very netbook capable, XP Mainstream support was ended.

 Vista and Windows 7 are the future for MS.

 PhreePhly

based on that 2014 date we can at least expect Liquid to run just as well and stable for at least another five years yet.  This is of course assuming new video cards don't mess it up and that you still use some sort of DV or HDV based camera.  A lot of change is going to happen in this industry in the next five years.  I still say wait things out a bit

TVJohn:

At this point in time, It probably would benefit Avid to lift the tent flaps a bit. If there is a good product in the final stages of development, letting the media get a sniff couldn't hurt. Honestly, the more time that passes encourages people to take advantage ot the many 30 day trials that competitors offer and some of them are pretty decent.

Today the Avid website posted a sound recording of an investor conference call that expands about news released yesterday.   The "good news" for 2-QTR-09 was that product costs were down more than revenues, lowering the break-even point, so that the company might return to profitability sooner, if AMC and other broadcast and professional studio tools sales recover.  Avid hopes that an upturn in the economy may bring wind to its sails and propel the leaky ship to Puerto Oro.  But, GAAP or no GAAP,  the company still loses money.

Management did not announce any new products or projects for its consumer or mid-level video editing products.  No investment analysts even asked about the sector.  The Chief Technology Officer is gone.  A new COO is learning AMC.  The outcome for the future appears to hinge mainly on whether national networks and local broadcasters recover from advertising revenue and viewer losses (don't count on it), end purchase freezes, and buy high-end upgrades. 

The company has $5 million in PCTV wares to unload, probably at substantial discount.

Avid may very likely consign its Pinnacle line to a status similar to Liquid, for ultimate termination.  Any NextGen successor would probably be an 'elements" portal to AMC.  Market-wise, the problem is that the entry-level version would be too tough for Joe Consumer but too thin on features for a Liquid veteran, who would have to pay some >$500 to obtain a higher version that would still be mostly a menu of come-ons for successive $100 and $1000 upgrades.  The dilemma over how to develop, structure, or test such a product probably produced quite a quandary.  Avid could probably make more money by dropping the small videographer segment altogether, and by selling to a competitor like Cyberlink the "opportunity" to obtain its Pinnacle / Liquid customers by way of a discount incentive to buy its soon-to-appear PD8.

Maybe an advertiser somewhere will pay for the rights to the Pinnacle forums, and keep them running for those who stick to the legacy products until the wheels fall off, provided they don't mind pop-ups and spam.

My suggestion to Avid is to open the door to Liquid users again for MC. At a 500 price range, FCS 7 just came out for 999. So it would be wise to keep the customers you have. Even if there is not a huge number of takers it still allows them to stay in the Avid line and compete against other NLEs. Yea I know nextgen is coming, but people may not want to wait any longer.Just my 2 cents.

"My suggestion to Avid is to open the door to Liquid users again for MC. At a 500 price range, FCS 7 just came out for 999. So it would be wise to keep the customers you have."

I don't see any downside to this...

My bad feelings for Avis are still growing. I never was a fan of them.

The way I see it, "they killed the beautiful Liquid".

The real problem here is that companies try to get all money out of good firms and products. Then, after having the money, they not only kill the products (like Liquid), but also the good staff. So there will never be a succesor for Liquid. Period.

Paul has gone, Jan has gone, and may others we have learned to know as ethousiastic people, without whom, I never had learned to use Studio and Liquid. And make splendid videos.

I'm 64 years old now. I hope to live for many years more . It is a shame that at my high age, my "friend" (Liquid) has left me behind.

When XP has gone, there will be no further future for me at all.

That is: in video making...

Snif, snif...

My thought is that there is too much speculation here based on no facts. That is Avid's fault. They should keep users more in the loop.

But AFAIK, NexGen is in development and a large team of people, including the original Liquid development team in Munich plus the engineers from Avid, are working on it and it is due for release in first quarter of next year. Could that change? Of course. Could Avid decide to kill it? Of course. But, right now, from what I have been told, things are moving full speed ahead on the development of a new product. Nothing that Avid has said contradicts this.

Lew,

That's very reassuring, and the thought should only go from your lips to Gods Ears (as the expression goes). 

Denny

And what about all these good guys that, according to some information from others, are no longer in the dev team and not in the Beta-support groups anymore?

Also rumours?

I feel left alone. Sorry, together with a bunch of real fans for Liquid.

 

It does not give any confidence towards us.

We are waiting for a looooong time for what is possibly coming to us. After 1 year, 2 years, ...., 10 years?

I definitly will not wait so long.

Others have abandoned the ship. And not the simple users....

 

As I've previously mentioned, I'll continue to work in Liquid, but the past few months i am taking advantage of all and any trial downloads of MidLevel NLE's and HD authoring apps.

One that stood out was TmpGe's Authoring Works 4, right price, good features, responsive company. 

LewS:

My thought is that there is too much speculation here based on no facts. That is Avid's fault. They should keep users more in the loop.

But AFAIK, NexGen is in development and a large team of people, including the original Liquid development team in Munich plus the engineers from Avid, are working on it and it is due for release in first quarter of next year. Could that change? Of course. Could Avid decide to kill it? Of course. But, right now, from what I have been told, things are moving full speed ahead on the development of a new product. Nothing that Avid has said contradicts this.

Lew, all these groups you mention that are suppose to be working on this new software, they must be getting paid by the hour

Sam the Sham:

Lew, all these groups you mention that are suppose to be working on this new software, they must be getting paid by the hour

It really doesn't make a difference if you're on salary on getting paid by the hour:

Hunt's Law of Suspense::

If any work has a suspense date on it, that work will be completed as close to the suspense date as possible regardless of how far in advance it was programmed.

LewS:

   .....and it is due for release in first quarter of next year.

Now that's the thing that struct me - seems like that anticiopated date keeps getting pushed back - and I guess I would be remiss if I didn't say that really disappoints me.  Just seems so far away - and I was hoping for it sooner.  

LewS:

But AFAIK, NexGen is in development and a large team of people, including the original Liquid development team in Munich plus the engineers from Avid, are working on it and it is due for release in first quarter of next year. 

Where disclosed?  The only notices Avid posts concern other products, cuts in staff, or Michael Jackson.

LewS:

.... Nothing that Avid has said contradicts this.

Or give it any basis.

Meanwhile, consider the huge amount of noise Avid promotes for its Sibelius product.  Signs of life, or their absence, certainly signify something.

Have any Liquid users tested the trial version of AMC to judge whether they'd like some version of it as a successor product?  How would it have to be priced, and what would the base version need to offer, to make it attractive enough to leave Liquid or not migrate to a competing product?

Many Liquid users have in fact switch to Media Composer. It is a very capable product but has a very different workflow from Liquid. Avid offered a significant discount (half price) to Liquid users to make the switch.

There is no doubt that Avid is going through significant structual changes right now. They will be a leaner company. That might be a very good thing for NexGen. Again, we will just have to wait and see what develops. Whether we like it or not, Avid is a public company and they will not disclose any significant information about future products or product direction and what they do disclose to some is always under a strict non-disclosure agreement.

When AVID introduced the trial version of Media Composer, I downloaded it with the intention of giving it a try. (I also downloaded trial versions of Edius, two of the Vegas products, and several others) and consulted widely as I am an enthusiatic amateur editor looking for my future replacement of Liquid. I also bought Studio 12 Ultimate to give me blu-ray capability but subsequently bought DVDitPro which I use instead.

I had no joy in getting my cams to work with MC but that is not surprising as from reading the MC forums, MC is designed for a much higher level of user than I could ever aspire to and many MC users appear to be having problems in getting their cams to be recognised.

Seems to me that it would be a step backwards to move to an editor where everything (?) has to be rendered; to learn all about .mov (isn't this an Apple format?) files; to go through so many steps to achieve basic functions such as titling (Douglas Bruce's tutorial is superb but does he really miss the ease with which this can be achieved in Liquid ?); and why would I have to get involved with 'mixdowns'; I could go on.

For enthusiastic amateurs, it is IMHO an expensive product and the annual maintenance charges would come from my personal pocket rather than a Company.

Almost 12 months ago, I was told that there would not be a NextGen that would be a Liquid replacement. I am loathe to 'name names' as to who told me - they may be wrong.

I shall continue to use Liquid for as long as my operating system allows - I have not found a product that comes near it!

Alan Wells

alan wells:

Seems to me that it would be a step backwards to move to an editor where everything (?) has to be rendered; to learn all about .mov (isn't this an Apple format?) files; to go through so many steps to achieve basic functions such as titling (Douglas Bruce's tutorial is superb but does he really miss the ease with which this can be achieved in Liquid ?); and why would I have to get involved with 'mixdowns'; I could go on.

There is no need to render everything. Many things are RT. Titling is even easier than TD when you got the grip of it. I have never done a mixdown. Never need it one.

The most important thing is that Avid is giving it for 1300 euros (at least to me)  from 2500 which is really a gift when the other programs coming with it, cost double the initial price of 2500!

The only difficult thing to get used to it's the timeline. And the thing that you are not going to export to DVD right away when you are finished.

The quality of the .mov files are top. And I don't like the dislike MC shows at con/prosumer cams but this is something that will change.

And the biggest plus is that at MC forums, they live many good fellows from Liquid.

Media Composer is about as RT as Liquid and in some cases even better than Liquid in its RT playback. For example, do a chromakey in MC using Spectramatte and it plays back perfectly in RT without rendering even with HD material. Very nice. Spectramatte and fluidmotion effects are some of the things I hope we see in NexGen. Also, mixdowns are essentially the same as fuses in Liquid and sometimes, just like with Liquid, you have to do it to get things to work correctly.

That said, I have MC on my machine and still do 99% of my editing in Liquid. I just perfer the workflow but MC is a very good NLE with some very advanced features that Liquid can't come close to. If you need them, you need MC. These programs should really not be compared.

It was hoped that NexGen would be here already but as I said earlier, lots of stuff is going on inside Avid and I suspect it has direct bearing on the design of NexGen and that could be for the better so I am more than willing to wait as Liquid still does everything I need it to do.