Apologies in advance if this question has been answered elsewhere -- I have scanned the forum and found bits and pieces, but I'm still not quite clear.  So please bear with me.

I recently bought my first HD Camcorder (HV30) and made some movies in HDV of our vacation.  I am now looking to make a DVD.  I have a good PC, Pinnacle Studio 11 Plus, a regular (non-Bluray) DVD burner and a regular DVD player.  Once I have edited my movie, I intend as a first step to save it back to a miniDV tape so i preserve the original HDV quality in case I upgrade to all-HD equipment later.  But in the mean time, I would like to make the best quality DVD possible with my standard equipment.  A few questions:

1. If I select Make Movie, Best Quality (720x480 at 8500kbs) with Dolby-2 as I found on another post, is that my best option?  Will the results look any better than SD footage burnt to a regular DVD?

2. How long can the movie be in the above case?

3. Any alternatives to the above to produce better quality?

4. Is there any benefit from upgrading as follows:
(a) Buying a Bluray DVD player?  Will I get better quality?  Or do I need a Bluray burner to get better quality?
(b) Using Bluray DVDs?

5. I have heard there are problems with Menus in the above process.  Is that true?

many thanks in advance.

vijay0828,

I have a similar setup as you.  I have a good PC with Studio 11 Ultimate, an HV20 camcorder and standard def DVD burner and player.

1.  As far as I know, that is the best option.  Those are the settings I use (except pcm instead of Dolby sound) for standard def dvds for friends and family.  I have heard reports, but can neither confirm nor deny, that the results are better than using SD footage from the start.  Sufficient for me is that I am comfortable it will be no worse.

2.  Same as a dvd made with SD footage, a little over an hour typically.  However, it has been reported that you can likely go over that somewhat by using automatic quality if necessary without noticing any quality loss.  I have very seldom exceeded an hour and then I used double layer dvds.

3.  Not that I know of.

4.  Yes, upgrading will give you the ability to burn and view full HD quality if you have an HD TV.  What equipment you need will depend upon your specific needs. 

I have a PlayStation 3 which, besides playing games, will play AVCHD files and standard and BlueRay dvds.  So, I output Studio 11 projects to AVCHD on standard dvds and play them in my PS3.  Works great.  The limitation is about 20 minutes of video on a dvd. 

If you want more on a disc you will need to upgrade to a BlueRay burner and burn to a BlueRay dvd.  And, you will need a PS3 or BlueRay player to watch the videos.

5.  No problem with menus when burning SD dvds.  Studio 11 does not burn menus to AVCHD dvds, they just act like titles.  Supposedly this was one of the things fixed in Studio 12, but I cannot confirm.

Whether you use Dolby-2 or PCM sound, the video should be the same. And yes, the SD DVD burned from HDV will look somewhat better than the same footage shot with an SD DV camcorder -- the colors will be a bit better and there will be more detail, especially in more distant objects, though it's still far from HD. For example, I shot my niece's wedding with my Sony FX1 (HDV) and a Sony HC-40 (DV). Then I made SD DVDs for some family members, and an HD-DVD for myself. Even on the SD DVD, it was very obvious (without knowing in advance) which shots were in HD. Obviously, on the HD-DVD the difference was much greater, but there were definitely benefits from the HDV source.

 As patndave mentioned above, to get the better quality you'll need a BluRay player, preferably with a BluRay burner, though you can burn to AVCHD on a standard DVD from either S11 or S12 and get improved quality, but it still must be played back on a BluRay player.

I pretty much will be echoing what has been mentioned in the previous posts. HD to SD DVDs are definitely better in quality compared to native SD.

Great -- thanks very much everyone.  This is very helpful.  I have one more question regarding lnuss's post.  You are saying I can improve the quality by burning to AVCHD on a standard DVD and playing back on a Bluray player.  Can that be done with a standard DVD burner, or would you need a Bluray burner?

In summary is it fair to classify as follows (in increasing order of quality)
1. SD source; burn to SD DVD; play in standard DVD player (normal SD quality)
2. HD source; burn to SD-DVD; play in standard DVD player
3. HD source; burn to SD-DVD (with regular DVD burner); play in Bluray player
4. HD source; burn to HD-DVD (with Bluray burner); play in Bluray player (full HD quality)

Hey Vijay

My process is also No 3 from your list. I have HD source from Canon HV20 mini DV camera. All editing in mpeg format. Final output is HD burned to a standard DVD disk using a standard DVD writer. The DVD disk produced will only play on a HD DVD player. In my case I have a Playstation 3 connected to my HD TV.

The results are quite outstanding but you will only get around 20minutes of HD material on a standard 4.7gb DVD disk. Still, this is enough for most situations that I have found.

Good luck - Regards, Keith  

 

Your general idea in your list is right, but certain specifics are not quite there -- for example, you cannot burn an HD-DVD in a BluRay burner (see explanation/comparison below); you can only burn a BluRay disc with a BluRay burner.

1. SD source - burn SD quality to a blank SD DVD using a standard DVD burner. This will play in a standard DVD player.
2. HD source - burn SD quality to a blank SD DVD using a standard DVD burner. This will play in a standard DVD player.
3. HD source - burn HD quality to a blank SD DVD (as AVCHD) using a standard DVD burner. This will play in a BluRay player.
4. HD source - burn HD quality to a blank SD DVD (as HD-DVD) using a standard DVD burner. This will play in an HD-DVD player.
5. HD source - burn HD quality to a blank BluRay DVD using a BluRay burner. This will play in a BluRay player.

Note that anything that plays in a standard DVD player will also play in either an HD-DVD player or a BluRay player.

To make more sense of the above, you need to understand that HD-DVD and BluRay are competing standards for High Definition on DVDs, and are not compatible with each other. Toshiba's HD-DVD standard lost out about a year ago to Sony's BluRay, so HD-DVD players are now difficult to find (used only), and HD-DVD burners have never really been available.
 

Source here is HDV 1440x1080i mpeg2 from Sony HC3.

I have 2 standard red laser burners and a Bluray burner. I also have a standalone BD player. (see profile for details)

If project is 40 mins or shorter I burn AVCHD on standard red laser disc using a red laser burner or the BD burner. Through adjusting the bitrate one can burn up to 40 mins AVCHD on a standard DVD. 

If project is longer then 40 mins I burn to real BD disc with BD burner.

When I play the discs (BD or AVCHD on standard DVD) on a full HD Philips or JVC 42" TV I can't detect any quality difference, even with 40 mins on a standard DVD.

plemmens:

When I play the discs (BD or AVCHD on standard DVD) on a full HD Philips or JVC 42" TV I can't detect any quality difference, even with 40 mins on a standard DVD.

Very nice.

Thanks again -- you guys are all really great.  Inuss - that was a helpful classification.  I am aware of the format wars and Bluray winning out -- I was just loose in my terminology (was using "HD" for generic high definition, which is inaccurate as you mention).

Sounds like #3 is a good way to go -- no investment needed in a Bluray burner or Bluray disks but close to HD quality. 

Plemmens, to get 40 mins of footage on a standard DVD, how would you adjust the bit rate?  Can one get twice the length by using double density DVD media?

To be clear.
When burning BD content on standard red laser disc I select Disc type: AVCHD and Image type: BDMV (AVC)

The default Best Quality setting equals a max. bitrate of 17,000kbits/sec and a max. project lenght of 35 mins with DD5.1 or 36 mins with DD2ch.

The lowest possible bitrate setting S12 is going to accept is 13,000kbits/sec or 46 mins on disc.

In order to write 40 mins on a standard DVD the bitrate is to be set at 15,000kbits/sec.

When using a double layer 8.5gb DVD the project lenghts mentioned above can be multiplied by 1.8.

35 becomes 63, 46 becomes 83 and 40 becomes 72

I'm glad everything is cleared up for you. Thanks for giving us an update.

Paul

Thanks for the heads up re bit rates on recording HD to standard DVD. I have just usually accepted S12 default and hence the 20mins or so of HD I've been getting on the disks. I'll try varying the rates and see what happens.

The problem here of course is that my friends and family are going to have to put up with more than the expected 20mins of my videos. I'll have to slowly increase the length so they aren't aware

Thanks again, regards - Keith 

 

 

It's too good to pass. Pinned this up.

If you cut the bitrate from 17 mbps to 13 mbps on an AVCHD-DVD project, one can notice the difference in cases of complex motion, such as a pan of vegetation, players dashing about a field combined with panning, or the like.  Then some artifacts can appear.  For stationary scenes with limited motion, there is not much difference.  In low light with a slower shutter speed any advantage of HD over SD begins to blur, or have more to do with sensor size than pixel definition.

 To burn a 70 minute video to a DVD-DL in AVCHD-DVD is cheaper, by far, than to burn to BD-SL, with one caveat:  there are no re-writeable DVD-DL discs and some brands of DVD-DL seem to be unreliable, so one can end up with lots of "coasters."  Meanwhile, there are BD-SL-RW discs, and I've had satisfactory results with one relative inexpensive BD product.

Your take on the subject is appreciated as always JKoch.