Folks,

I've considered this for months (since before the time we had to move - we all knew what it would be like here).  In talking about it with a few users some time ago, there was considerable interest in having a site where things would be kept professional with much less (or no) chance of disruption from let's just say "people" who have nothing better to do than cause problems.

I am absolutely willing to open up part of my own internet domain to a Liquid blog.  To make a forum would require too much work for me at this time.  There are technical obstacles which I don't want to deal with and don't have time to deal with.  At some point, I may be able to get past those obstacles and have a working forum but not for a while.  A blog is already possible with almost no effort.

So, would the people who've left or have considered leaving the Pinnacle forum because of the lax attitude toward disruptions be interested in a site where Pinnacle has NO say in how it's run?  If anyone's interested, let me know and we can start some testing.

Regards, 

Not an idea wthout merit...Lets see what the oldtime-longtime have to say.

John,

I don't know if I'm a "long timer."  I did start with Edition 4.5 if that is long enough ago.

 

Scott,

I'm sure I would visit, but I am reminded of the similar forum at Planet Liquid.  I tried to participate there, but the traffic was very low.  In retrospect, I understand the factors that mitigated its success and perhaps another kick at the can may work.  Then there's the forums at Creative Cow.  Same thing--tried to participate, but the traffic is not enough to warrant a lot of attention.  I have noticed things slow down here too, with the exception of a few issues (DX10 patch, nextgen and etc.).  Too bad.

I do wish that these boards were focused on helping each other, sharing creativity and techniques.  If your thought is along these lines and banishes discussion on DX10 patches and all the other drama about what Avid/Pinnacle did not do, should do, can't do, failed to do, but focuses on the incredible things WE CAN DO.....I'm all for it!  Sign me up!

Thanks Scott, but I'm quite happy here,  Having two places would in my view dilute the discussions. 

 

Fred,

That's exactly why I'm suggesting this.  We don't need or want certain kinds of traffic, right?  There should be a place where the chaff doesn't outnumber the wheat where we can help people instead of having to wade through 20 pages of nonsense in one thread - or having to wade through 10 threads all about the same thing and each of those into multiple pages where there isn't even a question to be answered.

I don't have any expectation or intent to replace the vendor's product site.  But since the vendor doesn't seem to care too much about helping to maintain a friendly and helpful atmosphere for the Liquid users and since I can certainly control who has access and who doesn't to my site as well as what topics are open for discussion or not, I am offering this option for those who'd like to have a flame-free, hysteria-free zone.  It would be a place where problems and solutions, tips and tricks and other informative topics would be discussed without flames, hysteria, misinformation and so on.

I've run my own email list the same way for years.  Sure, it's a relatively small list but there are NO flame wars and everything is on an extremely professional level.   The same would be true for the blog (or possible forum) I would run.  It was enjoyable to come to the Avid forum and help users and it was almost enjoyable for a while here.  It's no longer enjoyable here.  You've probably noticed that I haven't spent a lot of time here for a while.  That's why.

Send me a PM or contact me on Skype (smyers63) and we'll get the ball rolling with some tests to see how this can work.  For now, I don't want this open to any and everybody so details about where it is and how to get in will be held among just a few who are willing to try it out for a while.  Then, if things look promising I'll open it up to the rest.

Anyone else interested is invited to do the same (PM or Skype me) to help get this started.

Just so this is clear, I'm not doing this for me except to avoid having to come here to answer users' questions.  I'm doing this for the users who are as frustrated and disappointed with this forum as I am. 

 

SussexJohn,

That's no problem.  You'd be welcome if you wanted to participate.  From my perspective, this forum is about as dilute as any can be and that's why I'm offering an alternative.  If you change your mind, you know how to get in touch and you're welcome to. 

Scott, that's a kind and appreciated sentiment.  Thank you.

You're welcome.

The trial blog is now open for testing.  I've given login info to the people who've said they want to be a part of it.  Until I see how this works, I want to keep the membership fairly low but there's still plenty of room for others to join in for testing.  Anyone who's interested, send me a PM or a Skype message and I'll give you the login info.
 

Things are looking good so far.  There are slight differences between the blog and the forum but nothing too hard to get used to.  Membership is inching its way up bit by bit.  I appreciate those who've agreed to participate in the launch.  It will take a little time to get it up to speed but progress is good.

Sounds like a great idea to me.  But to quote an old Woody Allen line, "I wouldn't belong to any organization that would have me as a member!".  If you'll have me as a member, I would love to participate.

Denny

Thanks, Denny.  The login info is waiting for you in a PM.  Have fun.

dmfreeman:

Sounds like a great idea to me.  But to quote an old Woody Allen line, "I wouldn't belong to any organization that would have me as a member!".  If you'll have me as a member, I would love to participate.

Denny

Denny, it was a Woody Allen line but he took it from Groucho Marx

 

Steal from the best...

Samthesham,

Thank you for that I will note it for future reference.

Denny

I can't imagine how there'd be any confusion about this but I've had an email saying that Pinnacle will not support my blog.  Well, I have stated clearly that it's independent and that Pinnacle will have no control over it.  I don't see how I could have been or can be any clearer.  Hopefully, there'll be no more chance of confusion.

The email also said it's a "pity" to have another Liquid discussion site.  It is a pity that there's a need for it.  I can agree with that.  The solution is to make this forum what the users want of it.  After almost a year of persuasion to make that so, I've given up hope of it ever happening.  So, for the users' benefit, I am taking it upon myself with my own resources (that means my own time and money, by the way) to provide a place more in tune with what the users want.  Yes, it's a pity this needed to be done.
.

 

Guys,

Scott is making public a private discussion we were starting without any authorization.

Just to make it clear for everybody: I also mentioned in this email that Scott could have informed us before of his willing to open his blog.

I was also writing that I had nothing against him opening his private blog.

And my last sentence was "I think it’s a pitty to open a new environment for Liquid users and Pinnacle will not support it." I was meaning that I think that it's better for Liquid users to keep one place of contact as the Liquid forum. But, as mentioned before, I have nothing against it, but Pinnacle can not be involved in such decision which is just private.

I also decided, due to Scott's decision to make public a private discussion, to disable his moderation rights on the Liquid forum.

I'm very sorry for this, as this forum is living due to the extreme investment of Lews, Scott, DStone and Smetvid. But I don't think that a Pinnacle moderator can act like this.

So I am back to my beloved place.

I didn't mention any names, I just said there was an email from Pinnacle which seemed to indicate some confusion.  Now, the cat's out of the bag so I'll mention the name.

Bertrand seemed in his email to think that I wasn't clear in this thread so I made sure there could be no mistake about what I meant.  When Studio users made public a private discussion I had (complete with the names of the participants), they were not reprimanded.  There is a huge difference in how the Liquid forum, the Liquid users, and the Liquid mods are treated relative to the other forums, users and mods.  That's the pity. 

If this is the way it will be, then I resign as a moderator.  I refuse to go on putting up with the treatment Pinnacle seems to think is appropriate for the Liquid users.  When we were about to move here, I had already decided not to continue as a mod but I was talked into staying by my friends.  It has not been a pleasant experience here from the start and I won't miss this place.  I might miss some of my friends but many of them have already joined the blog, so there's no problem there.

Bertrand has never once given me a "Thank You" for all the hard work I've done to make this a more pleasant and helpful place.  This is my "reward" for giving so much of my time and experience.  I'm not sure he has thanked any of the Liquid mods for all their hard work and for their putting up with all the nonsense here.

Bertrand has stood in my way at every step when trying to make this forum better for Liquid users.  It's still the same. 

There will be some people here and on the Studio forums who'll think they've won because I won't be a moderator.  Nope, they haven't won a thing but I've won a hell of a lot of peace of mind knowing that I always did and will always do what's right for the Liquid users.
 

Scott,

In such decision, there is never a winner and a looser. You made as all Liquid moderators a great job helping the users. I hope your blog will be successful.

bvregille:

Scott,

In such decision, there is never a winner and a looser. You made as all Liquid moderators a great job helping the users. I hope your blog will be successful.

The Liquid users have lost because this place will go back to a free-for-all like the rest of the Pinnacle forums.  The other mods have lost a lot of the help they need.

I'm a winner because I still have my integrity.  That's one thing I will never compromise.  The users who've asked to be part of my blog seem to know that quite well.

bvregille:

Scott,

In such decision, there is never a winner and a looser. You made as all Liquid moderators a great job helping the users. I hope your blog will be successful.

 

Bvregile,

Not that I have always seen eye to eye with all Liquid moderators or for that matter the pinnacle/avid moderators I do respect their position and responsibilities. If Scott is not a paid employee of pinnacle/avid then I must disagree with your anology/suggestion that if Scott were to form a private blog/chat/forum for discussion aside from pinnacles that this would create a conflict and result in his moderator rights be refuse here. While I have not asked to take part in his private discussions nor do I know if I would be welcomed I certainly do not begrudge him this nor do I favor his moderator rights being suspended for this. In the past we have seen such other forums and chats created and I don't ever recall other moderators being stripped of their moderator duties due to this.

Anyhow, I may stir the pot occassionally but I have to disagree with your decision here and felt I compelled to say something.

   

Thanks, Ed.  It may not do a bit of good but I certainly appreciate your support.

Man, I go out to wash the car, and look what happens...

Guys, lets wipe this thread clean and start over...

dun4cheap:

Bvregile,

Not that I have always seen eye to eye with all Liquid moderators or for that matter the pinnacle/avid moderators I do respect their position and responsibilities. If Scott is not a paid employee of pinnacle/avid then I must disagree with your anology/suggestion that if Scott were to form a private blog/chat/forum for discussion aside from pinnacles that this would create a conflict and result in his moderator rights be refuse here. While I have not asked to take part in his private discussions nor do I know if I would be welcomed I certainly do not begrudge him this nor do I favor his moderator rights being suspended for this. In the past we have seen such other forums and chats created and I don't ever recall other moderators being stripped of their moderator duties due to this.

Anyhow, I may stir the pot occassionally but I have to disagree with your decision here and felt I compelled to say something.

Dun4cheap,

I didn't tell that Scott was not able to build his own blog/forum.  I was just concerned by the fact that he started this thread without informing us of his decision. I wrote Scott that I was not against it bu that Pinnacle could not support him.

And then the situation became out of control by Scott making this public. I didn't disable Scott's moderator role due to his decision of building his own blog. I did it because he published a private discussion (which was just starting). Thsi is something I would not accept from any moderator, regardless if he is a Pinnacle employee or an external moderator.

I"m also sorry of getting such a bad event on our forum, but I don't really see how to avoid it. To be honest, I also first set Scott's account to be moderated, but I removed it immediately, as I dont think it's fair, as I always try to promote the fact that our forums is an open community (with normal limitations) and Scott also has the right to explain his decision.

Some of you might think that we did not treat Scott correctly and will go away or will comment. Some will feel that we did the right choice and will stay, or will just not comment on it, as they are more interested in getting infformation and help on Liquid than by such stupid story.

Just sad to see that we will loose Scott's knowledge and that's bad for Liquid users. But there are decisions to be taken and I did it. Not fun for a sunday evening.

If Scott wants to go why does he not go and stop the crying and screaming