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Transitions lost in S11 > S12 Upgrade - FIXED by jb41

Last post 09-11-2008, 6:10 by andrew.j.reed. 47 replies.
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  •  06-14-2008, 14:04 196902

    Idea [I] Transitions lost in S11 > S12 Upgrade - FIXED by jb41

    I just upgraded from S11 Ultimate  to S12 Ultimate using the download upgrade installers.

    Apart from the annoying "You need to restart your computer prompt" before I could get a chance to use the transfer wizard (you know that feeling you get when you say 'ok reboot' and then realise there's another installer still running behind that one - Darn, too late! ).

    It went OK. I used the transfer wizard OK and then removed S11 - keeping only 1 shared 'hollywood' FX file that the Operating system prompted with.  Although I had to manually register S12 because the auto URL 'http://register.pinnaclesys.com", within the installer, didn't work either!

    Everything in S12 seems to work OK.  5.1 Dolby still imports just a stereo and mono prologic 1 surround (boo hoo - one day we'll nail that one!).

    However, the one thing that doesn't work (at least for me) is the transitions beyond the basic ALPHA wipes. All the 3D stuff has gone. At first, S12 couldn't locate the file and crashed. For example, when I selected, from say FAMILY FUN PACK.  The demo video you get, when first loaded, had "PINNACLE" where the flyaway balloon should have gone. Having restarted S12, I just get basic transitions and the FAMILY PACK (which I think came 'free' with S11) have now all gone. I tired clicking 'activate' and it just took me to a web page that said "You have all available content installed". The only new packs now are PRO DAD Packs ready to be unlocked.

    Do I need to reload S11 back and leave it them both installed to get those 3D transitions back?  It did struggle to 'convert' some of my projects with these and preferred to crash as a way of indicating its inability to convert.

  •  06-14-2008, 18:14 196959 in reply to 196902

    Re: Transitions lost in S11 > S12 Upgrade

    Sorry can't help with the transitions since I don't have S12 yet, but I was wondering how you evaluated

    5.1 Dolby still imports just a stereo and mono prologic 1 surround (boo hoo - one day we'll nail that one!).

    Did you import an AC3, AVCHD containing AC3 or a DVD with a 5.1 soundtrack? Can you elaborate further on what you mean by a "stereo and mono prologic 1 surround"?

    Do you know what happens on export of DD5.1 if created within Studio? Is it really 5.1?

    Thanks! 

  •  06-14-2008, 20:14 196972 in reply to 196959

    Re: Transitions lost in S11 > S12 Upgrade

    In short. Yes, I imported 5.1 inside AC3 from an .mts file from the camcorder SD card and no, Studio 12 does not preserve it, in the same way that S11 and S10 didn't either. So, its not a problem, just an expectation of functionality that hasn't been reached yet. It will, however, continue to create 5.1 from any manual sounds added into the timelines, but not from your original footage - which is probably the only chance you'll have of providing a true 5.1 effect.

    In my opinion, moving from S11 to S12 is probably not worth it. It's not quite the step-up that S11 was over the buggy S10 and they still haven't managed to surpass the reliability of Studio 9.5.3 ;-)   I find S12 crashes a lot more now and doesn't give you that nice: "Would you like to send a report back to us at Pinnacle and tell us why you threw it through the window ?" report that it used to. But, you do get magic bullet, I suppose - which is worth a 10 minute play and creates effects from 4 or 5 chain-effects to create a picture that is worse than the one you started with!

    When I tested 5.1 I brought in an AVCHD .mts file into Studio. When you use Studio import, it no longer gives you the choice of all your network or internal drives, other than the DVD drive or the removeable drive of the camcorder SD card. So if the .mts files are sitting on your C drive, you can now use the album file manager to import them directly and - hey presto - it will now recognise .mts files and informs you that they're 1920 x1080 25p or whatever they are. In my post,  I was referring to the AC3 5.1 surround encoding embedded within the imported camcorder .mts file.  If you just change .mts extention to .mpg then it will play in windows media player, but it won't decode any sound. But there are other players that will and you get the full 5.1 surround out of every speaker. I disconnected the front speakers just to be sure I was getting a proper stereo effect from the rear speakers. So the source material was OK.

    But then you import into studio.... 

    Once you load the 5.1 camcorder sound in, it plays in stereo. If you switch to 'surround' in the audio 'living room' mixer and bring the camcorder icon to the middle of the soundfield, then it will deduce a mono surround from the stereo downmix and because 5.1 box is ticked in video settings, it will play through the PC 5.1soundcard but only as a mono surround. This is more to do with your soundcard, though, than Studio doing anything clever.

    All resulting files BMDV (yes, you can burn blu-ray menus now!) include an AC3 encode, but its just a 5.1 mix of a 3-channel interpretation of the original camcorder sound. This means that you can't do multiple passes - i.e. re-import a mixed 5.1 an add even more sound to it and re-render just the audio for re-syncing back to the edited video. You only get one-shot at 5.1 and its not even 5.1 from the source. But to the ordinary listener - it may not be a Die Hard 4 soundtrack but - the 3 channel surround will still sound OK..

    Thus, I still can not reproduce the fantastic envelope of full surround sound I can get straight from the camcorder. [I don't know how 5 little mics in an x/y produce such good sound, it shouldn't be physically possible really, but the AC3 from it does sound rather impressive. Shame I can't get studio to preserve it]

    As for losing my transitions - I am going to restore my disk image to before S12 and try to re-upgrade, but this time I'll leaving S11 intact and see if S12 picks up the many S11 3D transitions. Removing S11 may be removing more than S12 upgrade was coded to deal with. I don't know <shrug> 

    I should have waited until they brought out a Studio 12.5.3  ;-)

  •  06-15-2008, 3:09 197086 in reply to 196902

    Re: Transitions lost in S11 > S12 Upgrade

    However, the one thing that doesn't work (at least for me) is the transitions beyond the basic ALPHA wipes. All the 3D stuff has gone. At first, S12 couldn't locate the file and crashed. For example, when I selected, from say FAMILY FUN PACK.  The demo video you get, when first loaded, had "PINNACLE" where the flyaway balloon should have gone. Having restarted S12, I just get basic transitions and the FAMILY PACK (which I think came 'free' with S11) have now all gone. I tired clicking 'activate' and it just took me to a web page that said "You have all available content installed". The only new packs now are PRO DAD Packs ready to be unlocked.

    HFX Transitions aren't Premium Content, which is contained in S10/11 "Bonus" Content DVD & has to be Installed & "Show Premium Content" Enabled in Setup, to show Video Effects, by double-clicking on Video File in TimeLine & Plug symbol in Pop-Up.

    HFX Transitions are Installed via S10/11 Prog Disk. Therefore The "Free" Transitions wouldn't be transferred from S11 to S12, via S12 Transfer Wizard.

    Insert S12 Prog Disk 1 & choose "Repair". Try that.  

  •  06-15-2008, 8:13 197215 in reply to 197086

    Re: Transitions lost in S11 > S12 Upgrade

    Thanks for the response.

    S11 Disk 1 = Program & HFX; Disk 2 = Bias Soundsoap PE 2.1 and Disk 3 = 3rd Party plugins (ProDAD, Adorage, Helograph) and I am using a digital download set of  S12 cabs, so no disk here anyway.

    I re-installed the S12 upgrade (again) having restored the disk image to S11 first.

    This time I changed the destination directory of the Wizard to point from 'documents & settings/application files/pinnacle' to a more realistic 'c/program files/pinnacle/..' so the content was at least in the right directory and the 'Transfer Wizard' copied all the alphas, backgrounds, menus, sfx, textures and 'overlays'  - the overlays being the 3D transitions I was originally missing. So everything works! Until....

    ...you UNINSTALL Studio 11 (after the S12 upgrade), then that's were the problems start! S12 doesn't transfer HFX (as you say), but removing S11 removes the registry for HFX and prevents S12 from accesing it as well! This, in turn, prevents some of the 3D overlays from also functioning correctly. Basically, anything that uses the HFX engine is affected. If you also uninstall S11 Bonus material you will also lose Adorage and Heliograph (which you had registered under S11). Only Pro-dad is effectively re-installed by S12.

    So what have I learnt? That you shouldn't UNINSTALL Studio 11, after installing Studio 12.

    Retaining both versions keeps the registry intact for HFX and the third party heliograph and adorage. Getting rid of S11, takes these programs with it, so that S12 is unable to find them! S12 will no longer allow you to do basic HFX editing by double clicking the transition, instead you now have to puchase HFX pro/mega to do anything. Hence my own custom directory of HFX effects and transitions is still intact and working but I can't edit them anymore.

  •  06-15-2008, 11:39 197445 in reply to 197215

    Re: Transitions lost in S11 > S12 Upgrade

    Thank you for the good description and results of the DD5.1 import/encoding features in. I am quite disappointed that the feature hasn't been upgraded., but I suppose it is no worse than S11!

    I posted a file here with 5.0 (no LFE) and was hoping someone could confirm that S12 is no better than S11 (or is an improved version). Based on what you tell me, if you did use that file, and made a new movie, the movie would be encoded in AC3 format, but not really have a true 5.0 sound.

  •  06-15-2008, 13:06 197480 in reply to 197445

    Re: Transitions lost in S11 > S12 Upgrade

    Mark,

    I took your 0000.m2ts file but the results in Studio 12 are the same as Studio 11, I am afraid.

    I checked your source in 'VLC Player' and it panned around the room OK. I didn't bother loading it into Sony Vegas, to check the multitrack, as you said LFE wasn't included in the 5.1 mix anyway. I don't have a true LFE, I just use a subwoofer deriving lo pass <120hz from the stereo mix. So I wouldn't be able to do it justice to this channel in my setup anyway.

    1. Importing the track into S12 with no edits, pans, surround or anything played back in stereo only (as it would in S11). I rendered it to a Standard DVD with 5.1 audio compression. The rear didn't bat an eyelid, even in Prologic I, it was only an uninspiring lul.

    2. Made a AVCHD disk (with BMDV and AHD). Same poor sound result as above.

    3. Made blu ray image (Mpeg2 and AVC) and again, same poor sound result.

    Then repeated above with the Studio Camcorder icon moved to the middle of the soundfield. This produced a stronger surround sound, but still in mono and only because Studio had artificially enhanced the out-of-phase- properties of the original stereo. So, your footsteps sounded out of focus - like he was walking on your head, rather than behind.

    I then imported a WMV 5.1 calibration file into Studio 12 which announces each channel in turn and plays a bass tone for the LFE channel. When played in the timeline, the left and right channels worked correctly, but the centre came out of both L+R and the rear channels just came out of the front speakers in an out-of-phase fashion.

    So, all I can deduce is that studio mixes all the left channels together, all the right channels together. Adds the centre to both L+R and the LFE is added to both L+R. The LFE is the only channel you can't create anything in.

    My Conclusion:

    Studio 10, 11 and 12 is unable to separate the original 5.1 multitrack into separate channels for user manipulation. But it can extract ambience information embedded in the tracks and downmix them to Stereo and redistribute and position that stereo within a 5.1 soundfield.

    So I am not sure what the Pinnacle Engineer meant when he said 'Studio Preserves AC3'. It preserves it in the same way a painter preserves 6 different colours of paint using only 3 pallette pots!

    I haven't found a workaround, other than taking a wild-sync 5.1 atmos track from the location you filmed in and adding that to the Studio video output using another NLE. :-( 

  •  06-15-2008, 13:16 197487 in reply to 197480

    Re: Transitions lost in S11 > S12 Upgrade

    That is what I didn't want to hear. But after your initial message, I guess that is what I expected....Sad It is all reminiscent of S11 (see here for original tests)

    I truly appreciate your testing. It has helped me, some other forum folk and the many readers that will come after us.

    Is the wmv file a free download (where can I get it?)? That would save me trouble of making the footstep video again!

    Thanks again.

  •  06-15-2008, 14:00 197499 in reply to 197487

    Re: Transitions lost in S11 > S12 Upgrade

    Mark,

    I can't recall where I downloaded the calibration file from. However, to save time, I've put it on the same site as you uploaded to (5.1mb).

    Warning: The file below just happens to sit on a  'free' host account, so make sure you have your pop-up blocker on, or you'll get 2 advertising pop-ups. Sorry.

    5.1 WMV Surround Calibration

  •  06-15-2008, 17:32 197543 in reply to 197499

    Re: Transitions lost in S11 > S12 Upgrade

    Many thanks! I use Mediafire too. Greta for sharing larger files.
  •  06-16-2008, 4:27 197772 in reply to 197215

    Betreft: Re: Transitions lost in S11 > S12 Upgrade

    jb41:

    So what have I learnt? That you shouldn't UNINSTALL Studio 11, after installing Studio 12.

    It's the same lesson I have learnt.
    But that doesn't satisfy me.
    So I went trying and trying again.
    For sure don't use regdelete 11.
    And I did learn a new lesson using Windows XP:

    Only deleting the folders of Studio 11 and studio Ultimate from the Pinnacle folder,
    followed by removing by hand all the entries from studio 11 in the registery
    will give me an unharmed Studio 12 with all my previous content and plugins.

  •  06-16-2008, 6:01 197808 in reply to 197772

    Re: Betreft: Re: Transitions lost in S11 > S12 Upgrade

    Nice to know its not just me then! Big Smile

    Good work! 

    For clarity, may I just ask a few questions - short of a guide -  I won't blame you for untold registry disasters, I am a Studio user, so I've got a thick skin!

    1) What do you mean by Pinnacle "map" ?

    2) I assumed you didn't use the XP "UNINSTALL" S11 at all (as I would have thought that would remove more than you want it to),  but, I guess you chose to remove all HKEYS under Studio 11...HKEY-CURRENT-USER/Software/Pinnacle Systems/Studio 11/*.*    and thus leave the parent registry directory (../pinnacle systems/..)  containing HFX, created by S11, still intact, so that S12 can use it; is that right?

    3) There's still references to ../Studio 11/OEM scattered in the registry - did you just ignore those or track 'studio 11' references across the registry?

    4) Did you remove all Studio 11 programs and files on disk (those in the Studio 11 directory only, I mean) and you've not hit a problem ?

    5) Won't it still be showing in the installer add/programs list, though or did you remove keys in installer/products?

  •  06-16-2008, 9:18 197942 in reply to 197808

    Re: Betreft: Re: Transitions lost in S11 > S12 Upgrade

    Me Too.

    I had large numbers of the HFX transitions unlocked because of the Plus pack for S9 having been picked up by S11 and then "transferred" to S12. I've just tried deleting S11 from the partion on which I have S9, 11 and 12 installed and received  the same result - no HFX transition - in fact a Crash if you even try to open those pages of the transition album.

    Although the workround looks useful, I think that this is something that Pinnacle should address as it's going to happen to a lot of people.

  •  06-16-2008, 15:22 198187 in reply to 197808

    Betreft: Re: Betreft: Re: Transitions lost in S11 > S12 Upgrade

    I always make first a backup backup of the registry .

    1. Sorry for my bad english. I meant Pinnacle folder

    2. No, not possible because of Windows SP3.
    I removed by hand all the Studio 11 entries in Current User/software and Local machine/software
    And yes, HFX remaines in the Pinnacle folder

    3. ???

    4. I removed from Program Files/Pinnacle >  Studio 11 and Studio Ultimate(11)
    No problem with Studio 12

    5. Yes Studio 11, Studio 11 Ultimate and Studio 11 bonus DVD are listed.

  •  06-16-2008, 15:55 198196 in reply to 196902

    Re: Transitions lost in S11 > S12 Upgrade

    "However, the one thing that doesn't work (at least for me) is the transitions beyond the basic ALPHA wipes. All the 3D stuff has gone. At first, S12 couldn't locate the file and crashed. For example, when I selected, from say FAMILY FUN PACK.  The demo video you get, when first loaded, had "PINNACLE" where the flyaway balloon should have gone. Having restarted S12, I just get basic transitions and the FAMILY PACK (which I think came 'free' with S11) have now all gone. I tired clicking 'activate' and it just took me to a web page that said "You have all available content installed". The only new packs now are PRO DAD Packs ready to be unlocked."

    Same thing happened to me. I just installed 12 by downloading. Install said it's OK to remove 11 using the Add/Remove programs. Now only the basic transitions are there. The Activation Keys aren't accepted. Having said that, 12 has worked without any crashes so far.
  •  06-16-2008, 22:46 198377 in reply to 198196

    Re: Transitions lost in S11 > S12 Upgrade

    RadioHam:

    "However, the one thing that doesn't work (at least for me) is the transitions beyond the basic ALPHA wipes. All the 3D stuff has gone. At first, S12 couldn't locate the file and crashed. For example, when I selected, from say FAMILY FUN PACK.  The demo video you get, when first loaded, had "PINNACLE" where the flyaway balloon should have gone. Having restarted S12, I just get basic transitions and the FAMILY PACK (which I think came 'free' with S11) have now all gone. I tired clicking 'activate' and it just took me to a web page that said "You have all available content installed". The only new packs now are PRO DAD Packs ready to be unlocked."

    Same thing happened to me. I just installed 12 by downloading. Install said it's OK to remove 11 using the Add/Remove programs. Now only the basic transitions are there. The Activation Keys aren't accepted. Having said that, 12 has worked without any crashes so far.
    What were the transitions that you purchased in 11 that didnt carry over Studio 12?
  •  06-17-2008, 2:02 198449 in reply to 198377

    Re: Transitions lost in S11 > S12 Upgrade

    If the previous poster will excuse me adding a point of clarification; It doesn't have to be a purchased 3D pack for it not to work;  It doesn't work with the FREE 3D stuff from S11 either e.g. Flying windows, extra FX, Family Pack (which was FREE in S11 ultimate)

    The Hollywood FX engine stops working when you remove S11. The HFX  files remain in  '../program files/pinnacle/Hollywood FX for Studio/6.0/*.*' but no longer works.So, all the 3D transitions fail too.

    In fact, if you restart Studio 12, it even CLEANS UP these redundant non-working transitions to show ONLY the very basic 2D wipes. The S12 upgrade installer does copy all the overlays from the S11 directory to the S12 directory but doesn't do anything about the standalone HFX directory. The S11 de-install then breaks it and you are left with no further registry fix or installer to 'repair' the damage or re-attach HFX to S12.

    Leaving S11 installed is the only way I found of getting S12 3D transitions to work correctly.

    John. 

     

  •  06-17-2008, 5:43 198538 in reply to 198377

    Betreft: Re: Transitions lost in S11 > S12 Upgrade

    Marc P.:
    What were the transitions that you purchased in 11 that didnt carry over Studio 12?

    Marc,

    It looks like you don't understand this problem/issue.
    This is the problem.

  •  06-17-2008, 14:58 198798 in reply to 198538

    Re: Betreft: Re: Transitions lost in S11 > S12 Upgrade

    Thanks for clearing that out Marten, let me look into it.
  •  06-18-2008, 8:06 199174 in reply to 198798

    Re: Betreft: Re: Transitions lost in S11 > S12 Upgrade

    Does anyone know if there is a workaround for this problem?.  I have received my Studio 12 Ultimate upgrade but am reluctant to install it and remove Studio 11 until this matter is resolved.

     Thanks in advance

  •  06-18-2008, 8:18 199181 in reply to 199174

    Re: Betreft: Re: Transitions lost in S11 > S12 Upgrade

    What additional HFX transitions have you unlocked in St11? Do you use the hollywood effects Pro or Plus editor? If the answer to that is none/no, then I suggest you uninstall S11 first, then install s12 and use the transfer wizard for other things you might have bought.

    Alternatively, if you can afford the space, just leave S11 in place until Pinnacle gets this gets sorted out. I have s12 on two seperate partions, one with s11 and one without. I see no difference in performance.

    The third option is to maually fix this yourself using the instructions provided by Keeks2 earlier in this thread

  •  06-18-2008, 9:41 199216 in reply to 199181

    Re: Betreft: Re: Transitions lost in S11 > S12 Upgrade

    Thanks but I guess there is a fourth option.  Wait until Pinnacle supplies a workaround or perhaps a patch to solve the issue.  I really don't want to go into my registry and start fooling around.  I've heard far too many horror stories from others who have ended up with no end of problems.

     I appreciate your response.

    Bill

  •  06-18-2008, 10:18 199243 in reply to 199216

    Re: Betreft: Re: Transitions lost in S11 > S12 Upgrade

    Wait until Pinnacle supplies a workaround or perhaps a patch to solve the issue
    Reminds of the film Airplane. The guy in the taxi at the end.... "Well, I'll give him another twenty minutes; but that's it!"
  •  06-18-2008, 14:26 199379 in reply to 199181

    Re: Betreft: Re: Transitions lost in S11 > S12 Upgrade

    I managed to "break" my 12's HFX by replicating the steps made. I was able to fix it by doing the ff:

    1. With Studio 11 removed, reinstall it back and do a custom install.
    2. Install only Hollywood FX and everything else unchecked.
    3. Reboot after the reinstall. You should have S12's HFX functioning as normal. And with minimal space required (compared to installing the whole S11 suite.)

    Let me know how this works for you folks. I have already escalated this issue as well. 

     

  •  06-18-2008, 14:32 199384 in reply to 199243

    Re: Betreft: Re: Transitions lost in S11 > S12 Upgrade

    JB41

     Have you tried these steps and did they help?

    To repair Studio 12, please follow this procedure:

    1. Go to Start -> Control panel
    2. In Windows XP click on Add or Remove Programs. In Windows Vista click on Programs > Uninstall a program.
    3. Find and select Studio 12.
    4. If using Windows XP, select Change and follow the on-screen prompts to repair Studio 12.
    5. If using Windows Vista, select Repair and follow the on-screen prompts to repair Studio 12.
    6. Once this is complete, the problem should be resolved.

    Try the content transfer wizard for any premium content.  I am going to send this thread over to the ENG team and see if they have an idea as well.

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