Studio - Capture

Re: BSOD When trying to capture video in Studio 12

inthecheeks — Wed, 04 Nov 2009 15:52:43 GMT

I appreciate you jumping over in the english forums, Im not doubting your interaction or response time at all. Thanks for your honest post about not being contacted untill 10/27.

Yes Moot is the word for this situation.

-Dustin

Re: BSOD When trying to capture video in Studio 12

eurrutia — Wed, 04 Nov 2009 00:55:27 GMT

InTheCheeks,

I can't speak for others, but the first time I received a link to this forum thread was on 10/27/09 and that was only a week ago.

If you care to look through the history of my posts you'd see I normally interact on a routine basis with Spanish speaking users in that specific section of the forum, since we have other folks at Pinnacle who are more than capable of interacting with users here in the English section. Only at such a time that someone from customer support runs out of ideas they will forward threads to those of us in the engineering dept. for further investigation. Like I said unfortunately in this case that didn't happen when it should have. I will grant you though that the situation is moot at this point, since we can't ever know what would have transpired otherwise.

Eduardo

Re: BSOD When trying to capture video in Studio 12

inthecheeks — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 22:37:41 GMT

eurrutia:

JustaViking,

I also don't feel it would be technically impossible to provide a 64bit driver, but if you read my statement again that "no further driver development is planned" you might be able to infer that another reason exists why we are unable. If I should add that when we sold off our PCTV product line that the brand name was not all that was subtracted from Pinnacle I think you'd be capable of reaching a different conclusion about this situation. Sorry that I just don't come right out and say it, but there are things I'm not sure that I'm at liberty to disclose at this time.

InTheCheeks,

Yes we were aware of the BSOD very early this year (about 10 months ago I reckon), but like I said a week ago unfortunately we did not have the insight that you end users had where taking system memory down to 2 GB resolved the issue. In retrospect its anyone's guess whether that could have created more of an incentive to fix the bug in the driver, since even back then my above statement to JustaViking held true. Even back then we were not planning on undertaking any further maintenance of the driver.

I believe knowledge is power, so I do not agree that we are calling the product dead and leaving you without a paddle. May I suggest you consider a dual boot environment for those instances when you need to capture with the PCI-700 device, so that you don't have to constantly remove the extra memory from your system.

Eduardo

Eduardo,

To say that no-one knew 10 months ago about the extra memory being removed made a difference is not true. Since you are saying you were aware of the BSOD but not aware of the temp fix end-users where using it seems to me maybe you werent informed since the first three posts in this thread cover that specific temp solution and you only reckon you knew about this issue. I dont know how much more clearly it could have been spelled out in the earlier posts that this was what others and I had concluded.

I disagree with the product not being dead, it is dead since I cannot use it at all anymore on my current system without removing extra hardware or reinstalling the OS and losing support for the extra ram and no more driver updates for it. I have pinnacle 14 and I do like it but the PCI-700 without further driver development is a dead device that is no longer supported, sure we can download old drivers for it but essentially if there are any technical issues the device has reached EOL.

Dual boot is not an option atm.

Thanks

Re: BSOD When trying to capture video in Studio 12

Marc P. — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 02:52:04 GMT

jjn:
I say that because we owe our end users a fix for the problem in the Importer tool in S14 where it is currently not possible to perform a timed capture from analog devices. As it stands the user has to sit there and monitor such captures and manually stop the process. That is not a very good workflow so I will advocate very strongly here that we should move to correct that situation.
It is very heartening it is to read that, and thanks for the heads up regarding capture hardware support. We often speculate wildly on this forum about things that Pinnacle may or may not be doing, so it's good to be put straight once in a while!

And thanks to your efforts in bringing these findings to our attention in such a short while after the software was released.

Re: BSOD When trying to capture video in Studio 12

jjn — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 01:08:55 GMT

I say that because we owe our end users a fix for the problem in the Importer tool in S14 where it is currently not possible to perform a timed capture from analog devices. As it stands the user has to sit there and monitor such captures and manually stop the process. That is not a very good workflow so I will advocate very strongly here that we should move to correct that situation.

It is very heartening it is to read that, and thanks for the heads up regarding capture hardware support. We often speculate wildly on this forum about things that Pinnacle may or may not be doing, so it's good to be put straight once in a while!

Re: BSOD When trying to capture video in Studio 12

eurrutia — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 00:25:06 GMT

Jeff,

Thanks for making such speculations, since the train of thought you employed brought on a hearty chuckle.

Maybe it's a good thing I'm not entirely in the loop as to what my management is planning in terms of hardware or I might have flat out confirmed or denied the first part of your statement. The way things are constantly evolving around here it almost feels like that scene from The Godfather where Michael says "Just when I thought I was out.. they pull me back in". Just the way it is in our line of business as well.

WRT S14 no longer recognizing 3rd party devices the way I have come to rationalize the decision to not have that type of support is the introduction of Digital TV was to blame. More and more Digital TV tuner devices in the market (including PCTV stuff) started to use unique MPEG2 hardware encoding methods (even for the analog signals), which made it difficult for us to keep revamping our software capture components to be able to handle the variance in transport streams coming in from those devices. Aside from this TV Tuners are generally shipped with some type of DVR software included, so it was rather redundant for us to also have kept implementing similar but rather limited capabilities in Studio. I'm sure there's more to that story, but I'll leave it at that since I don't know as much about it as I wish I did.

Finally, about removing analog capture support in future permutations of our software I hope the opposite is true. I say that because we owe our end users a fix for the problem in the Importer tool in S14 where it is currently not possible to perform a timed capture from analog devices. As it stands the user has to sit there and monitor such captures and manually stop the process. That is not a very good workflow so I will advocate very strongly here that we should move to correct that situation.

Eduardo

Re: BSOD When trying to capture video in Studio 12

jjn — Mon, 02 Nov 2009 23:34:32 GMT

Eduardo

Thanks for the honest reply

I hope you don't mind me speculating here, but it sounds like Pinnacle/Avid are getting out of hardware altogether? Which makes it rather odd that S14 seems no longer to recognise 3rd party hardware that was recognised by S12. Perhaps analogue capture will be removed entirely from Studio by the time S15 is released?

Re: BSOD When trying to capture video in Studio 12

eurrutia — Mon, 02 Nov 2009 23:17:30 GMT

JustaViking,

I also don't feel it would be technically impossible to provide a 64bit driver, but if you read my statement again that "no further driver development is planned" you might be able to infer that another reason exists why we are unable. If I should add that when we sold off our PCTV product line that the brand name was not all that was subtracted from Pinnacle I think you'd be capable of reaching a different conclusion about this situation. Sorry that I just don't come right out and say it, but there are things I'm not sure that I'm at liberty to disclose at this time.

InTheCheeks,

Yes we were aware of the BSOD very early this year (about 10 months ago I reckon), but like I said a week ago unfortunately we did not have the insight that you end users had where taking system memory down to 2 GB resolved the issue. In retrospect its anyone's guess whether that could have created more of an incentive to fix the bug in the driver, since even back then my above statement to JustaViking held true. Even back then we were not planning on undertaking any further maintenance of the driver.

I believe knowledge is power, so I do not agree that we are calling the product dead and leaving you without a paddle. May I suggest you consider a dual boot environment for those instances when you need to capture with the PCI-700 device, so that you don't have to constantly remove the extra memory from your system.

Eduardo

Re: BSOD When trying to capture video in Studio 12

inthecheeks — Mon, 02 Nov 2009 14:45:50 GMT

I think I said it in an earlier post that they would just simply drop support for the PCI-700, I bought this unit last year as they really dont have too many choices for internal capture solutions.

For Pinnacle to come to the idea that a solution is not worth the time they must have some other device they are going to shuck out and drop support for only a short time after.

I would use a 32 bit OS but I dont want to have to reinstall my OS just to use this device. So anytime I use it I gues the easiest thing would be to pull out my memory.

Thanks for the honest but predictable response I figured it would end up like this, its just a shame that it took this long just to bring it to someones attention, who knows if it were actually reported 10 months ago they may have found it worthy of a solution. Guess its just easier for them to call it dead and leave us without a paddle.

Re: BSOD When trying to capture video in Studio 12

justaviking — Sat, 31 Oct 2009 01:00:33 GMT

I don't want give false hope to anyone, but if it's at all possible to develop an updated 64bit driver that resolves the problem then we'll strive to deliver it.

eurrutia:

At least it didn't take too long to provide closure for this issue, the bad news is that here at Pinnacle a consensus was reached by engineering managers, product managers and customer support that we will only be able to document the problem with 64bit drivers for Pinnacle 700-PCI as a limitation. In other words if you have a Vista 64bit or Win 7 64bit system with > 2GB of RAM installed then you may invariably encounter a Blue Screen Of Death crash. No further driver development for Pinnacle PCI capture devices is planned.

Unfortunately all that I was able do in this case was to provide an answer. I only wish there was more I could have done to come up with an actual fix for the problem.

Eduardo

Well that sucks.

Your clear response is appreciated, and I realize you're only the messenger, but I find it hard to believe it's technically impossible to provide a 64-bit driver. Are you saying there's something in the hardware that makes this impoosible?

If you had a hundred capture devices, I understand dropping support for some older models, but you don't have that many. And this model is not very old, really. Hardware like a capture device should be a relatively long-term investment. Thank goodness my monitors still work.

I'm not in a position of NEEDING 64-bit immediately, but as a heavy multi-tasker I always assumed my next computer will be 64-bit. I currently have 4GB of RAM, but I'm not benefiting much because of the limitations in the 32-bit version of Windows I'm running.

Pinnacle (AVID) -- Please reconsider making a 64-bit driver for your capture devices. First you drop SmartSounds, now you are obsoleting your own hardware. The reasons to upgrade (or even remain on an older version of) Studio are becoming fewer and fewer. You're making it difficult to remain a loyal customer.

Re: BSOD When trying to capture video in Studio 12

eurrutia — Fri, 30 Oct 2009 16:08:16 GMT

DMK:

I'm wondering - may the customers, who trusted in your product, get a credit?

Last question: What is about Windows 7 and 64-bit? Same problem?

You should at the very least be able to return Studio 12 (which did not fix your problem) and get a credit for that purchase. Of course that should be straightforward, since you documented your case with the support dept. If you don't get prompt resolution send me a private message with your details and I will make sure to escalate your issue to the appropriate manager.

WRT Windows 7 64bit OS as I stated above yes the same limitation applies as it did in Vista 64bit.

Eduardo

Re: BSOD When trying to capture video in Studio 12

IWannaUsePCI_700 — Fri, 30 Oct 2009 13:23:54 GMT

Yes there's the same problem with Windows 7 64. I've already tested and the problem still persist.

Re: BSOD When trying to capture video in Studio 12

DMK — Fri, 30 Oct 2009 08:34:39 GMT

First - Eduardo - thanks for your response and telling us the truth.

Please forgive me, but I personally have to take a deep breath! One year of little hope and trusting pinnacle in being professionals reduces to zero.

Just a small step for you but a giant slap for all '64bit-troublemakers' in here.

Please note - one year ago I decided to buy your capture card, your software (version 11) because of your manuals and the advice of my (PC)-distributor.

Then troubles started in January. Blue screens were overcrowding the display. After a long deep search in the internet and a first talk with pinnacle the clearly advice was given

'... buy version 12 and all troubles are gone .....'

All what was gone was my money but the problem was still loyal.

Next step I had opened a case and a back and forth with pinnacle support started. At the end the support diagnosed:

'.... your problem! Our technicians don't see any problems in using the 64-bit drivers. Good luck...'

Really! This was more than impudent. I have sent detailed log files, descriptions, and step-by-step workflows (with hardware changings) but unfortunately nobody really cared for it.

Now, after one long year you tell us, we were right. Hardly to understand.

Meanwhile I have given all my camera-tapes to some professionals who did the job of pinnacles PCI-Card. Expensive - but I'm trough and could finish my project. PCI-Card and software version 10/11/12 are deeply hidden in the filling cabinet.

I'm wondering - may the customers, who trusted in your product, get a credit?

Last question: What is about Windows 7 and 64-bit? Same problem?

Re: BSOD When trying to capture video in Studio 12

eurrutia — Thu, 29 Oct 2009 20:42:06 GMT

At least it didn't take too long to provide closure for this issue, the bad news is that here at Pinnacle a consensus was reached by engineering managers, product managers and customer support that we will only be able to document the problem with 64bit drivers for Pinnacle 700-PCI as a limitation. In other words if you have a Vista 64bit or Win 7 64bit system with > 2GB of RAM installed then you may invariably encounter a Blue Screen Of Death crash. No further driver development for Pinnacle PCI capture devices is planned.

Unfortunately all that I was able do in this case was to provide an answer. I only wish there was more I could have done to come up with an actual fix for the problem.

Eduardo

Re: BSOD When trying to capture video in Studio 12

IWannaUsePCI_700 — Wed, 28 Oct 2009 17:06:15 GMT

eurrutia:

I'm an SQA Engineer at Pinnacle and fortunately the very useful feedback in this thread from end users has reached my attention. I don't want give false hope to anyone, but if it's at all possible to develop an updated 64bit driver that resolves the problem then we'll strive to deliver it.

Eduardo

Finally! Someone with really interest to solve the question. I appreciate your answer and I'll wait (I hope good) news.