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PS23u Time Remapping Preview & Export Slow Down

Last post 08-13-2020, 19:02 by Tony P. 25 replies.
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  •  08-02-2020, 0:16 802122

    PS23u Time Remapping Preview & Export Slow Down

    So, today I recorded some 4K60fps & 1080P240fps video clips of my dog that I have trained to dive under water and retrieve her ball.  I added several clips to the 1080P 59.97FPS timeline.  All of a sudden, when I time remapped the clip "GX010078 Lucie Strut.mp4", it wouldn't play back in the preview window with playback optimization set to 50%(Where I always keep it).  If I advanced the cursor frame by frame, It would display the next frame in the preview after a 6-7 second delay. When I would click on the clip in the timeline, the cursor would no longer jump to the beginning of the clip, it would jump to way before that clip on the timeline. If I waited after making a change to the clip, after 20-30 Seconds, it would start jumping to the start of the clip when I would click on the clip.  It was like it was doing something in the background, but nothing was displayed on the progress bar.  After the delay, it would then play in the preview, but only at about 1 frame per second.

    So, I decided to start moving the playback optimization up until the time remapped clip was rendered on the progress bar.  It started background rendering the clip when I set the playback optimization to 80% or 90%.  I don't remember at this point. But, it was rendering terribly slow.  Just like Fullmakt said in his post in the export section.  It's not just CUDA GPU, it's Intel GPU as well, and I'm thinking AMD.  I launched the video screen capture and recorded almost five minutes of it rendering and it only rendering about 30% of a 14 second time remapped clip.  At  3:26 in the screen video capture I move the task mgr in front of the capture area to show the low CPU & GPU usage. http://www.acscontrol.com/PS/PS23uTimeRemappingGoingExtremelySlow.mp4

    It did finally render the entire clip after about 14-15 minutes.  I can now preview the time remapped clip at full speed.  But, I still can't get the cursor to jump to the start of the clip when I click on it.  The cursor jumps to a random point on the timeline. http://www.acscontrol.com/PS/PS23uThisOddCursorBehaviorStartsTheTimeRemappingSlowDown.mp4

    It has the same problem when exporting at 1080p60fps H.264.  Look at the task Mgr.  100%CPU, 46%GPU on the non- time remapped clips, until a Time Remapped Clip, then it goes down to less than 10% on both.  CPU stays a little higher when screen video capture is running capturing this video, but goes to 2-3% when not capturing the video. http://www.acscontrol.com/PS/PS23uTaskMgrExportTimeRemapDropInCPUGPU.mp4

    I saved the project as a package. 

     

  •  08-02-2020, 1:22 802126 in reply to 802122

    Re: PS23u Time Remapping Preview & Export Slow Down

    So, I closed PS23u, restarted PS23u. I have it set to open the last project, so the project at issue opened.

    It preview played the time remapped clip no problem.

    I tried export.  It exported perfect, but still slowed down to a couple frames a second on the time remapped clip.  The CPU & GPU usage both slow down from 100% & 46-50%, to under 10% for both when it gets to the time remapped clip as mentioned in my previous post.

    I went back to the editor.  It still preview played fine.  When I changed the speed on the time remapped clip, the cursor position jumping to the start of the time remapped clip when you click on the clip got corrupted. Now, just like before, after making a change to the time remapping, the cursor jumps to a random spot on the timeline when you click on the time remapped clip.  It jumps to the same spot every time you click on that clip.  If you change the time remapping, it will randomly change where the timeline cursor jumps when you click on the time remapped clip.  Now it will jump to that timeline position when you click on the time remapped clip until you make another change to the time remapping.

    It still preview renders the clip slow as well.  If the Screen isn't being recorded, the CPU & GPU usage goes below 10%.

    NOTES:

    1. In the video below, I couldn't make the time remap change stick.  It kept jumping back to the original speed 4 or 5 times before it finally accepted the new value.  I have never experienced this before.

    2. In the video below, you see the timeline cursor is in the middle of the clip when I open the time remapping in the editor.  When the time remapping window opens, it shows the time remapping keyframe cursor in the previous clip?  Not in the clip that is selected?  I wonder if this is the point where the cursor position for the time remapped clip gets corrupted?  If you move the timeline cursor, the time remap keyframe cursor corrects it's position.  Maybe the keyframe cursor position is just not being set when the time remapping window is opened?

    http://www.acscontrol.com/PS/PS23uOpenProjectTimeRemapChangeIssue.mp4 

  •  08-02-2020, 1:46 802127 in reply to 802126

    Re: PS23u Time Remapping Preview & Export Slow Down

    Hi acsscott,

    With regards to the cursor not moving to the start of the clip. Try the following:

    1. Click on the clip a second time.
    2. Get completely out of the time remap editor - (click on Library) and see if the cursor moves when you click on the clip
     
    I discovered that the cursor would not move on the first click on a remapped clip but would move on a second click. When I got out of the remap editor completely, the cursor would move on the first click.

     

     

  •  08-02-2020, 1:58 802128 in reply to 802127

    Re: PS23u Time Remapping Preview & Export Slow Down

    Interesting.  I'll have to try that and verify your findings are the same on my project.  Thanks.
  •  08-02-2020, 2:50 802129 in reply to 802127

    Re: PS23u Time Remapping Preview & Export Slow Down

    acsscott,

    Just a further observation, which I was going to post separately but I'll post here since I believe its related to yours. While I was testing on behalf of Fullmakt, I took screen captures using the old Live Screen Capture program which produces WMV files. I then screen captured with Multcam Capture Lite which came with PS23 and can produce MP4 or MOV files.

    The WMV files are much smaller in size for the same duration and I had no problem in rendering the time remapped clip although I noted that it took around 4.5 times longer to render.

    I then tried time remapping and rendering the MP4 and MOV files in PS23. Rendering the files with no time remapping worked as expected. But rendering a clip that was time remapped resulted in the following observations/problems.

    1. The MP4 render process would freeze and not complete.
    2. The MOV render would complete - within seconds sometimes, but the resulting video only contained a few frames. 
     
    So my question was, did my machine and its specs have a problem rendering these larger files? Did it have enough grunt power? Sometimes in software testing, you have to use other software which does the same thing to identify the problem. I don't want to breach this forum's policy; this is a Pinnacle forum and I respect it but for me to find the answer I had used another Corel video editor. These same MP4 and MOV files were time remapped and rendered without any problem. The time remapped MP4 rendered in the same time as the original (not 4.5 times longer) and the time remapped MOV, rendered twice as fast.
     
    Therefore my conclusion is; this is not a hardware problem but a software problem within PS23. 
     
    I hope this helps and I apologise to the Moderators for mentioning another product but I couldn't explain my conclusion without it.  
  •  08-02-2020, 4:14 802133 in reply to 802129

    Re: PS23u Time Remapping Preview & Export Slow Down

    Candive:
    I hope this helps and I apologise to the Moderators for mentioning another product but I couldn't explain my conclusion without it.  

    No problem Candive. Mentioning competitor softwares is not againts this forum rules, even less when it's a Corel's software (I do understand that you were talking about Corel Video Studio).

  •  08-02-2020, 12:10 802178 in reply to 802133

    Re: PS23u Time Remapping Preview & Export Slow Down

    How about a sample project clip?
  •  08-02-2020, 12:56 802185 in reply to 802127

    Candive:

    Hi acsscott,

    With regards to the cursor not moving to the start of the clip. Try the following:

    1. Click on the clip a second time.
    2. Get completely out of the time remap editor - (click on Library) and see if the cursor moves when you click on the clip
     
    I discovered that the cursor would not move on the first click on a remapped clip but would move on a second click. When I got out of the remap editor completely, the cursor would move on the first click.

    CanDive, I found your cursor results to be correct.  I can repeat on my machine.  I tried to record my findings using PS23 Multicam Screen capture, but when I choose Pinnacle Studio Ultimate for the capture area, it just recorded a green screen for the entire capture.  See Attached.  I will try again using the custom capture area which has worked fine for me in the past.


  •  08-02-2020, 13:48 802190 in reply to 802127

    Re: PS23u Time Remapping Preview & Export Slow Down

    Candive:

    Hi acsscott,

    With regards to the cursor not moving to the start of the clip. Try the following:

    1. Click on the clip a second time.
    2. Get completely out of the time remap editor - (click on Library) and see if the cursor moves when you click on the clip
     
    I discovered that the cursor would not move on the first click on a remapped clip but would move on a second click. When I got out of the remap editor completely, the cursor would move on the first click.

    OK, a link to a video showing the cursor problem with time remapping.  I never noticed a pattern before, but candive pointed it out and he is absolutely correct in how it behaves. 

    http://www.acscontrol.com/PS/PS23uTtimeRemappingCursorIssue.mp4 

  •  08-02-2020, 15:35 802195 in reply to 802190

    Re: PS23u Time Remapping Preview & Export Slow Down

    ok, Started a NEW project. I dropped a single 1080p240fps video clip("GX010078 Lucie Strut.MP4") from a GoPro Hero8 on a 1080p60fps timeline.  Works and previews fine.

    Clicked on Time Remapping

    Changed Speed to 50%(Even Divisor) - Renders Fast, CPU GPU near 90-100%
    Changed Speed to 100%(Nothing to do) - Renders 1 -2 frames per second, CPU GPU near 20%
    Changed Speed to 31%(Nice prime #) - Renders Fast, CPU GPU near 90-100%
    Changed Speed to 75%(Even Divisor) - Renders 1 -2 frames per second, CPU GPU near 20%
    Changed Speed to 100%(Nothing to do) - Renders 1 -2 frames per second, CPU GPU near 20%
    Changed Speed to 102%(Nice prime #) - Renders 1 -2 frames per second, CPU GPU near 20%
    Changed Speed to 200%(Even Divisor) - Renders 1 -2 frames per second, CPU GPU near 20%
    Changed Speed to 125%(Even Divisor) - Renders 1 -2 frames per second, CPU GPU near 20%
    Changed Speed to 25%(Even Divisor) - Renders Fast, CPU GPU near 90-100%
    Changed Speed to 27%(Nice prime #) - Renders Fast, CPU GPU near 90-100%
    Changed Speed to 99%(Nice prime #) - Renders 1 -2 frames per second, CPU GPU near 20%
    Changed Speed to 50%(Even Divisor) - Did no Render, and previewed fine.  Before it rendered?
    Changed Speed to 100%(Nothing to do) - Renders 1 -2 frames per second, CPU GPU near 20%
    Changed Speed to 300%(Even Divisor) - Renders 1 -2 frames per second, CPU GPU near 20%
    Changed Speed to 400%(Even Divisor) - Renders 1 -2 frames per second, CPU GPU near 20%
    Changed Speed to 500%(Even Divisor) - Renders 1 -2 frames per second, CPU GPU near 20%
    Changed Speed to 431%(Nice prime #) - Renders 1 -2 frames per second, CPU GPU near 20%
    Changed Speed to 25%(Even Divisor) - Did no Render, and previewed fine.  Before it rendered?
    Changed Speed to 37%(Nice prime #) - Renders Fast, CPU GPU near 90-100%

     Video of Testing.  The audio is low.  Didn't have the 10x turned on on my mic and didn't have the patience to record the entire test all over again. There are a couple loud spots when the preview is played. 

    http://www.acscontrol.com/PS/Ps23u240fpsTimerRemappingRenderIssue.mp4 

  •  08-02-2020, 16:36 802199 in reply to 802195

    Re: PS23u Time Remapping Preview & Export Slow Down

    So the same thing I'm seeing basically, 1-2 frames pr second, takes hours to render a video with many timelapses in it. I have seen the same issue in PS21 and PS23
  •  08-02-2020, 17:27 802203 in reply to 802195

    Re: PS23u Time Remapping Preview & Export Slow Down

    Acsscott,

    Interesting observation. It doesn't make sense that a speed of 100% renders 1-2 frames. What you proved is that the the playback render is impacted by the time remapping.Would this same phenomena occur during an actual video file rendering? I'm not sure because we don't know if the video rendering process uses the same engine (routine) as the playback rendering process. One way to find out is to take your doggy diver video and time a number of different video file renders say 100% (no remapping) 25% (slowmo) and 500% (superfast).

    As for your green screen, I couldn't replicated it so I created a screen capture of the screen capture to demonstrate that Multicam Capture Lite does capture the Pinnacle Studio window when selected; at least on my machine.

     

      https://1drv.ms/v/s!AkbXhziF2pP0pXXr5Wk6xXvtW2UP?e=eIBdmP

     

  •  08-02-2020, 23:42 802207 in reply to 802203

    Re: PS23u Time Remapping Preview & Export Slow Down

    Yes, if the set time remap speed preview renders slow, it exports slow.  If it preview renders fast, it exports fast.  I tried three different speeds.
  •  08-03-2020, 7:08 802212 in reply to 802207

    Re: PS23u Time Remapping Preview & Export Slow Down

    Acsscott,

    I concur with your findings. Using Fullmrkt red car WMV clip as a sample the following render times were achieved. Slow motion at 25% had a faster render than fast motion at 500%.

    1. No time remap: 10 sec
    2. 25% time remap: 19 sec
    3. 500% time remap: 45 sec

    And depending on the clip, the system really struggles I took a short 1 min mp4 clip from my camcorder and rendered it both in Video Studio and Pinnacle Studio with the following results:

    1. PS no time remap: 16 sec
    2. VS no time remap: 46 sec

    1. PS 500% time remap: 100 sec
    2. VS 500% time remap: 29 sec
     
    With a standard render, Pinnacle Studio is almost 3 times faster than Video Studio. When time remapping is applied, the opposite happens. In fact the render time for VS reduced from 46 seconds to 29 seconds. This makes intuitive sense since there are less scenes to render! Also the Pinnacle time remap render generated a poor quality pixelated video.
     
    In conclusion, there is something definitely wrong with time remapping in PS23. 

     

  •  08-06-2020, 14:31 802323 in reply to 802212

    Re: PS23u Time Remapping Preview & Export Slow Down

    And this bug has been present at least since PS21, where I first encountered it. Thinking to myself, 2 major versions later it's probably fixed, purchasing the upgrade to PS23 only to find it is just as bad as in PS21.

    This bug really needs fixing.  

  •  08-06-2020, 18:13 802334 in reply to 802323

    Re: PS23u Time Remapping Preview & Export Slow Down

    Well this is only a user forum managed by volunteers so what you need to do is contact Corel Support with a brief explanation and link to your thread to bring it to their attention.
  •  08-11-2020, 23:21 802569 in reply to 802334

    Re: PS23u Time Remapping Preview & Export Slow Down

    Well, PS24U has the time remap render issue that PS23U had.  Still renders 2-3 frames per second when set back to 100%.  Hard to tell what speeds are going to render at what rate.  But, there is an interesting new feature.  If you change the speed of a clip to 21%(Which rendered fast), then change to some other speed like 31%(Which rendered fast), then change it to 50%(which rendered slow), then when you change it back to 21% or 31%, it remembers that it rendered 21% or 31% and doesn't render it again.  It previews fine.  Interesting addition to save on render times.  I don't know how many different speeds it can remember or keep rendered.
  •  08-12-2020, 15:24 802683 in reply to 802569

    Re: PS23u Time Remapping Preview & Export Slow Down

    I updated my Intel GPU Driver and PS24 Render Speed is significantly faster than PS23.  Went from 3% - 20% Intel GPU usage to 70%-80% Intel GPU Usage when background rendering and Exporting.

    The issue still exist in PS24 with time remapping a clip to like 21%(Which renders fast), then back to 100% and having it render extremely slow.

    I'm wondering how the Speed Slider, text box, reset icon, and keyframe line graph are being converted to a speed value that is passed to the encoder?  It's almost like it's reading the text box using a #C string to float, which could be not returning 100 for 100%, but could be returning 99.999999 or 100.000001 and sending it to the encoder.  Maybe this six digit precision is making the encoder render slow.  If you click on the Reset icon to the right of the text box, the text still stays 100%, but the clip renders fast or not at all if playback opt is low enough. I would think the speed value could be typecast as a single decimal point or even an Int before being passed to the encoder.

    Just a thought. 


  •  08-12-2020, 16:30 802685 in reply to 802683

    Re: PS23u Time Remapping Preview & Export Slow Down

    acsscott,

    Can you provide a workflow and maybe a sample clip so others can follow your steps to determine if we can replicate your results? 

  •  08-12-2020, 16:39 802686 in reply to 802685

    Re: PS23u Time Remapping Preview & Export Slow Down

    The best solution is to create a project using only the sample video : The sky is the limit.mpg

    Then share online the project file. 

  •  08-12-2020, 18:09 802695 in reply to 802685

    Re: PS23u Time Remapping Preview & Export Slow Down

    Candive:

    acsscott,

    Can you provide a workflow and maybe a sample clip so others can follow your steps to determine if we can replicate your results? 

    I did all that above

    ok, Started a NEW project. I dropped a single 1080p240fps video clip("GX010078 Lucie Strut.MP4") from a GoPro Hero8 on a 1080p60fps timeline.  Works and previews fine.

    Clicked on Time Remapping

    Changed Speed to 50%(Even Divisor) - Renders Fast, CPU GPU near 90-100%
    Changed Speed to 100%(Nothing to do) - Renders 1 -2 frames per second, CPU GPU near 20%
    Changed Speed to 31%(Nice prime #) - Renders Fast, CPU GPU near 90-100%
    Changed Speed to 75%(Even Divisor) - Renders 1 -2 frames per second, CPU GPU near 20%
    Changed Speed to 100%(Nothing to do) - Renders 1 -2 frames per second, CPU GPU near 20%
    Changed Speed to 102%(Nice prime #) - Renders 1 -2 frames per second, CPU GPU near 20%
    Changed Speed to 200%(Even Divisor) - Renders 1 -2 frames per second, CPU GPU near 20%
    Changed Speed to 125%(Even Divisor) - Renders 1 -2 frames per second, CPU GPU near 20%
    Changed Speed to 25%(Even Divisor) - Renders Fast, CPU GPU near 90-100%
    Changed Speed to 27%(Nice prime #) - Renders Fast, CPU GPU near 90-100%
    Changed Speed to 99%(Nice prime #) - Renders 1 -2 frames per second, CPU GPU near 20%
    Changed Speed to 50%(Even Divisor) - Did no Render, and previewed fine.  Before it rendered?
    Changed Speed to 100%(Nothing to do) - Renders 1 -2 frames per second, CPU GPU near 20%
    Changed Speed to 300%(Even Divisor) - Renders 1 -2 frames per second, CPU GPU near 20%
    Changed Speed to 400%(Even Divisor) - Renders 1 -2 frames per second, CPU GPU near 20%
    Changed Speed to 500%(Even Divisor) - Renders 1 -2 frames per second, CPU GPU near 20%
    Changed Speed to 431%(Nice prime #) - Renders 1 -2 frames per second, CPU GPU near 20%
    Changed Speed to 25%(Even Divisor) - Did no Render, and previewed fine.  Before it rendered?
    Changed Speed to 37%(Nice prime #) - Renders Fast, CPU GPU near 90-100%

     Video of Testing.  The audio is low.  Didn't have the 10x turned on on my mic and didn't have the patience to record the entire test all over again. There are a couple loud spots when the preview is played. 

    http://www.acscontrol.com/PS/Ps23u240fpsTimerRemappingRenderIssue.mp4 

    Source Clip http://www.acscontrol.com/PS/GX010078LucieStrut.MP4 

     

  •  08-12-2020, 18:12 802696 in reply to 802686

    Re: PS23u Time Remapping Preview & Export Slow Down

    saby:

    The best solution is to create a project using only the sample video : The sky is the limit.mpg

    Then share online the project file. 

    Yann, I did that.  I sent a link to a project package in a private message over a week ago.  I just took it down from the server today so I could have some room.

  •  08-13-2020, 12:56 802746 in reply to 802686

    Re: PS23u Time Remapping Preview & Export Slow Down

    saby:

    The best solution is to create a project using only the sample video : The sky is the limit.mpg

    Then share online the project file. 

    I agree this is a good idea to establish a common baseline, but in this particular instance the issue is compounded by the fact that the clip is HEVC and the system tends to struggle with thiscodec. Initially I couldn't even play HEVC clips in PS23 until I discovered it was my AMD graphics card that was choking on the file. This was interesting since I haven't experienced this with any other codec and the clip played fine in Win10 Player, VLC and the open source editor Shotcut. Once I changed my hardware acceleration to Intel, I could play the file but have experienced similar rendering/playback issues when I follow Acsscott's workflow. So I think there are two issues here; one is time mapping and the second is how Pinnacle handles the HEVC codec.   

  •  08-13-2020, 13:33 802757 in reply to 802746

    Re: PS23u Time Remapping Preview & Export Slow Down

    @Candive, looking at AMD's site, your graphics card does not want to play back HEVC or 4K encode/decode. Shotcut might be doing it in software, while PS requires MS HEVC extension, Win10 and hardware that supports it. If someone just googles MS HEVC extension to add to Win10, they will have to pay for it from MS. The link I posted, you get it for free.

    Supported Rendering Format from SITE

    HDMI™ 4K Support  No
    4K H264 Decode      No
    4K H264 Encode      No
    H265/HEVC Decode No
    H265/HEVC Encode No
     
    Time Remapping is something I would not use unless I plan on watching paint dry. At least using the percentages that cause the slothful render speeds. 
    If you are also looking for HEIF Image Extensions, you can get it from the MS STORE for free right now. Tomorrow, who knows?

     

  •  08-13-2020, 18:49 802770 in reply to 802757

    Re: PS23u Time Remapping Preview & Export Slow Down

    Thanks Tony,

    I never thought of looking at the specs of the card; it just came installed in the computer and I was never really impressed with it since it only rendered just as fast as the internal Intel graphics chip! I do have the MS HEVC extension already installed. Thank you for sharing the link to the free download; others will benefit. Smile I'll just keep my hardware acceleration set to Intel going forward; issue solved.

    I don't shoot in HEVC myself but in trying to help acsscott I came upon the HEVC problem with my own system. I guess its becoming more popular with action cameras and drones. As for time remapping, I've noticed that more people are using it to add variety in their videos so you can't discount it. If Pinnacle can improve/optimise this function; that would be great!

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