In Vegas Movie Studio Platinum and Vegas Pro 8 can handle 5.1 sound (5 different chanels) in the editing line (mode). When I have tied to edit by Pinnacle 12 Ultimate, it downmixes 5.1 souns to the stero in the editing line. How can I get all 5 chanels into the editing line, so that I can edit also my 5.1 sound?

You can't...at least, not all that easily.

Some folks have experimented with using various sound manipulation programs (e.g BeSweet) to extract different channels of audio from their source video files, then placing the various channels on the various audio tracks in Studio, panning the channels where they "belong", and thus reconstructing the 5-channel audio (no LFE) by brute force and persistence.  However, it gets to be pretty fiddly, trying to move the audio tracks around and keep them in-sync when you do any editing...plus, if you decide to use any transitions (except for fade in or out), it's *darned* difficult to get the audio to "dissolve" along with the video.  So I guess the answer is...it can be done, but it's probably not something that you'll really want to undertake unless you like a challenge.

Many thanks!

It seems to be, that I must edit my AVCHD-videos  with 5.1 sound  by Vegas Pro 8.

Discussion Thread
Entered By : Mircea Ruse	Entered on : 10/12/2009 1:22 PM
This is the answer to my question, which I got from Pinnacle Support:   Dear Mr. Thank you for your message. You can manually reassign the clip to Dolby 5.1, as shown below: In the Audio toolbox (the speaker icon above the timeline), please select the volume control (speaker icon in the left area of your screen). Instead of Stereo, please select Surround or Dialog, in the Pan selection. More information can be found in Studio's help topics, under the surround entry. You shall find how those settings (surround and dialog) can be assigned, manually. Should you require further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact us again. Kind regards, xxxxxxxxxxx Avid Pinnacle Support I had try this way, but still the sound is stero.  I don´t understand this!

ebros;

Those instructions are for generating 5.1 audio out from the editor, and that part does work, I have generated several disk with 5.1 audio encoding. The current problem is, that there is no way of bring in 5.1 with your video (all at the same time), so all of those consumer cameras that can record with 5.1 encoding all get down mixed to stereo inside of studio. Unless you use bittmann's suggestion of separating the back and center audio tracks first with something like besweet, and then managing them in there proper tracks inside of studio.

ghuck;

 Thanks! This matteris now very clear.

ghuck:

...separating the back and center audio tracks first with something like besweet, and then managing them in there proper tracks inside of studio.

Except that there is no way to import 5-channel sound into Studio.  Besweet would perhaps allow separation, but reintegration in Studio would be impossible or ungainly.  There are only four sound tracks (the primary, the overlay, the music, and the effects), and each allows only a single mono or 2-channel file.  The export of an intermediate file would reduce the four 2-channels to to a single two channels.

Studio should cease claiming that it supports DD 5.1.  The fact that the claim persists in the advertising and spec lists is probably a key reason why management never takes a second look at the Feature Requests pleas for the feature.  Even a PC magazine review of S14 reports that it supports DD 5.1, which is baloney.  It does not.  Obviously, no one is doing proper tests.

Except that there is no way to import 5-channel sound into Studio.  Besweet would perhaps allow separation, but reintegration in Studio would be impossible or ungainly.  There are only four sound tracks (the primary, the overlay, the music, and the effects), and each allows only a single mono or 2-channel file.

There are plenty of tracks.

1 (mono or stereo with both channels the same) in "dialog" mode for center speaker

1 stereo track for front-left/front right

1 stereo track for rear-left/rear right

Bearing in mind that Studio doesn't use the LFE channel (and I'm guessing most/all camcorders don't either), we can ignore that track completely.

So, 3 audio tracks -- and you have a track left over.  In theory...

 

Now, mind you, I don't do this (my camcorder is stereo-only).  But old dun4cheap messed around with this back in the day, and reported that it did actually work.  Would be useless for anything more complex than a simple A>B copy with very few/no edits, but if you were doing a sequence that would actually benefit by using camera surround, it'd somewhat work.

 

The export of an intermediate file would reduce the four 2-channels to to a single two channels.

Agreed.  If you're doing this "trick", you can't use intermediate files.

 

Even a PC magazine review of S14 reports that it supports DD 5.1, which is baloney.  It does not.

Depends on what it means by "supports", I guess... 

 

  Obviously, no one is doing proper tests.

I used to chuckle when I read Jan Ozer's reviews (like this one) that claimed that Studio had "best in class" stabilization.  Must've been the remedial class...

BittMann

bittmann:

Bearing in mind that Studio doesn't use the LFE channel (and I'm guessing most/all camcorders don't either)

You would guess wrong. These 5.1 cams DO generate a LFE track. Most of them (the sony ones anyway) are certified by dolby labs, which means (unlike studio) the ac3 is authentic.

The problem with separating the ac3 into wav files then importing is that a avchd cams generates individual clips as opposed to one long string of clips as on a tape. If you have 1000 clips on a cam then you would have to transcode 1000 ac3 audio tracks. Pretty silly when you start to think about it.

The best answer is to jump the pinnacle ship if you want to work with the true ac3 sound from one of these cams. 

There's an LFE track there.  Now, use BSWEET or some other utility to break the soundtrack down into its composite tracks.  Dollars to donuts that the LFE track contains virtually no "bits" whatsoever....minimum output...silence.  JUST like what Studio emits.

Unless you're thinking that the itsy-bitsy microphone in that camcorder is somehow expected to accurately resolve down to 10 Hz, I suppose...

Update:  Someone actually has already done this in Liquid here.  Note that the LFE channel is pretty dead...if it had been a "real" LFE, there should be something there...shouldn't there?

The best answer is to jump the pinnacle ship if you want to work with the true ac3 sound from one of these cams. 

Agreed.   If the audio is that important, then Studio isn't the tool for the job.

 

 

 

bittmann:

Update:  Someone actually has already done this in Liquid here.  Note that the LFE channel is pretty dead...if it had been a "real" LFE, there should be something there...shouldn't there?

That was me and the LFE track "is pretty dead" because there wasn't too much at the low end happening at the time. I can however show you otherwise if you really wish. I have plenty of raw samples on hand. What you will find is that the LFE track can either be heavily involved or not depending on your environment. Out on the beach for example there will be little activity but in a lounge with a band playing you will see the LFE track just as active as the rest. 

The point being to all of this however.... Contrary to your suggestion that these cams do not have LFE tracks, they do in in fact generate them.

OK...Still, have to wonder where that is coming from.  The LFE channel is only intended to carry supplemental bass information in cases where the regular channels would be overwhelmed by low frequencies.  Never thought a consumer AVCHD would have a mic that would (realistically) register enough bass to overwhelm the front channels and cause the encoder to start shifting bits to the LFE channel.

Studio has never been able to generate "hot" enough output on 5.1 to need to use the LFE (at least, not as of S12, maybe S14 is better).  It would normalize output audio way down...somewhere down around 30dB.  No need whatsoever for LFE, with that much headroom.

As I said in the other thread, I am not a sony engineer and I have no idea how sony is doing all of this. It is quite surprising all on its own that these cams do in fact generate a fairly authentic 5.1 sound given the locale of the mic system, but then they in fact do. As can be seen in the screen grab, each channel is registering something a bit different... and trust me when I say that it can be heard even better than it is seen.

Now whether or not you're a believer in LFE tracks or not is really sort of a moot issue. The fact is that they ARE there and therefore studio will lose out on any advantage that they may bring.