colour:

"fun" aspect of messing with Studio.

Bit patronising, doncha think Tony? - We're all Pros here. You might have to eat your words, if "Nextgen" turns-out to be "Studio on Steroids".

I gotta tell ya.... I had Studio 9 and never used it, but decided to try 10.5. It was "ok". But S11 Ultimate was a blast to use. That is the "fun" aspect of it for me. Liquid I have been using far longer. It's a great tool and gets whatever job done that I have to do. IF Nextgen is Studio on steroids, it better have a lot of the 'roids in it. Liquid offers so, so much more.

But, you might be right. An upgrade path for the Studio user who wants more video/audio tracks and tons of keyframing. If it has what I am looking for, I don't care what it's called. If it doesn't, I've changed NLE's before.....  there is always "PowerDirector7"  

Rich Edgley:

As I stated before, we typically do not discuss future releases due to the fact that things could change during the testing/release cycle. 

I can understand that, but sometimes a certain amount of communication is very valuable.  Just look at all the feedback and insight you're getting on this topic!!!  Can you imagine what would happen if you pulled SmartSound support without saying anything first?     

Actually I think there dead serious about this, have you notice that they have been cleaning up their FAQ. Before Studio 12 came out, they had a lot of FAQ's on smart sound and studio 12 now all I could find is the one that says they never tested in studio 12 they have removed all other references to studio 12 and smart sound. They must have consulted with there lawyers. I know they were there because I read so many of them before purchasing studio 12, to make sure smart sound would work with 12, if it had not, I would not have purchased 12.

So, en-light of all this, if anybody has a copy of these web pages in there INTERNET tmp directory save them in a save place, I suspect if they decide to follow though on this, the next move would be to start denying that these FAQ's ever existed, then release the patch that breaks smart sound.

As a studio end user, I think it's time we start putting a list together of every magazine and past reviewers email address of studio, I have a letter almost ready to send having some of those FAQ's attached to the letter would drill the point home, but will be needing has many names to send it to, to put reviewers on track as to whats going on. Again, the only way to convince corporations there about to make a bad decision, to show them that a large part of their user community will walk to there competitors, as there revenue stream starts to dry up. The only way to make the revenue stream dry up, is to get the word out before people going looking to purchase a NLE.

then release the patch that breaks smart sound.

IMO & as previously Posted, that would be illegal for those who've already Purchased S12 directly from Pinnacle, since it  clearly states in S12 User Manual that you can use SmartSounds in S12 & QuickTracks are included within S12 Prog & are currently functional. If Pinnacle remove the facility to use SmartSounds from S12, then IMO, they would also have to re-call all copies of S12, shipped to Retailers, who would be in Breach Of Contract with their Customers, if they sold S12 & Pinnacle would be in Breach Of Contract with the Retailers.

Sadly I think we should all be preparing for a huge disappointment. There's a great line by John Cleese in the film Clockwise - "It's not the despair, Laura, I can cope with the despair, it's the hope.....!"

With the best will in the world, and I really want to be wrong about this, I reckon a couple of hundred serious/pro users on this forum won't hold a candle to the mass production of what is at the end of the day a consumer program. If a thousand disappointed users each persuaded five of their friends and colleagues not to buy the product then Pinnacle have lost sales of five thousand x $100/£70 = $0.5m/£350,000. A drop in the ocean, compared with the overall sales of the product, although I don't have a clue what the figures are.

This won't stop me going on to every software review site I can find to offer the review I find appropriate to this disloyal and regrettable action by Pinnacle/Avid. But let's be clear: the bottom line is that Pinnacle Studio can do without the likes of us, the serious users.

Our protest here is no less valid for all that, it's just that maybe we should be getting ready to cope with the despair .... like Cleese, it's the hope I find difficult. Come on Avid, put us out of our misery!

Jonathan

  

 

 

 

Hey, didn't we have a post in here from an Avid "executive"?  Did that get cleaned out?  Or maybe I have a "false memory".

 

P.S.

Jonathan - Thanks for the quote from Clockwise... sadly profound.

 

EDITED...

I might have been thinking of the reply from Jim Sugg.  Also, Ian shared this reply from the CEO:

I have just had a reply from Gary Greenfield, CEO of AVID:

Ian,

Thanks for the note.  I wanted to do a little research on this myself before responding.    As usual in these cases, the issues are not black and white, but do appreciate your concern as well as the sentiment of yourself and other users.  We are looking at the question and I would keep an eye out on the forums for clarity on this.    Give us a few days, however.

Thanks.

Gary

As I said to Gary in my reply, this is very heartening to know that he has taken the time and trouble to reply to me personally and to look into this important issue. Thank you Gary, also Jon RT for his efforts on this.

Cheers,

Ian

Mr. Greenfield... it's been "a few days" now (8 days since the post).  Any updates?

After deciding to upgrade my video production business to HD, I bought two Sony HVR-HD-1000U cameras, fluid head tripods and all the rest of the stuff necessary to step up a notch in the business.  I purchased Studio 12 Ultilmate upgrade in order to produce HD and burn on BlueRay.  Computers were upgraded to huge hard drives and memory and I was ready to install the new version of Studio along with my 21 SmartSound albums (not purchased at special prices but at full tilt since my works are filled with SmartSound and I must have what I need when I need it).  I am new to this forum but if I have read correctly, I will be stopped at Studio 12.0 if I want to retain the use of SmartSound.  Having used Studio 8 and 9 for several years, the first thing I learned was that you don't have it more than a few days and then must apply a patch to fix all the screwups. Not a problem.......but to purposely retro-degrade by eliminating SmartSound with the patch sounds just a bit irregular in terms of legality.  During all the promo for Studio 12 that came in my Email and as pop-ups when I launched my version, NOWHERE did it spell out clearly that I was about to commit financial suicide.  So.......here I am with Studio 12 Ultimate upgrade still brand new in the box and a drawer full of SmartSound and two new HD cameras...... 

Tex,

WELCOME to the forum. 

I wish we would have met under more pleasant circumstances. 

Here you are, with your first-ever post, providing further proof that this ill-advised move by Avid affects more than 10 hard-core users that post regularly on this forum.  We believe in our heart-of-hearts that there is a huge "silent majority" out there that will be very unhappy about this.

How many thousands of people who don't regularly read these forums will be royally upset if they install a patch to "fix" Studio, only to find out that it breaks a major capability that they use almost all the time?  For all our sakes, I hope we never have to find out.

Tex:

After deciding to upgrade my video production business to HD, I bought two Sony HVR-HD-1000U camera, fluid head tripods and all the rest of the stuff necessary to step up a notch in the business.  I purchased Studio 12 Ultilmate upgrade in order to produce HD and burn on BlueRay.  Computers were upgraded to huge hard drives and memory and I was ready to install the new version of Studio along with my 21 SmartSound albums (not purchased at special prices but at full tilt since my works are filled with SmartSound and I must have what I need when I need it).  I am new to this forum but if what I have read correctly, I will be stopped at Studio 12.0 if I want to retain the use of SmartSound.  Having used Studio 8 and 9 for several years, the first thing I learned is that you don't have it more than a few days and then must apply a patch to fix all the screwups. Not a problem.......but to purposely retro-degrade by eliminating SmartSound with the patch sounds just a bit irregular in terms of legality.  During all the promo for Studio 12 that came in my Email and as pop-ups when I launched my version, NOWHERE did it spell out clearly that I was about to commit financial suicide.  So.......here I am with Studio 12 Ultimate upgrade still brand new in the box and a drawer full of SmartSound and two new HD cameras...... 

Tex

Welcome to the wonderful world of Avid! I too run a business and I too have just upgraded our cameras to HVR-HD1000E (European version of yours). However, so far we have not upgraded our 5 systems to S12 as we are waiting for the Smartsound issue to be resolved. Rest assured there is another similar product available that does make full use of SS and is a fairly easy learning curve for Studio users. We are not allowed to mention competitors products on this forum, if you do your post will be deleted, suffice it to say that it is elementary to guess which package I mean. However we all hope this is resolved soon, but until it is do not install any patches that are released for S12.

Good luck with the business.

Ian

Wow...I just came up to the site to see if there was a patch or something for S12 and I found this thread...All I can say is that I am not suprised by this companies decisions being made on the subject...

 My only comment on the quarterly earnings is, was anyone really suprised? When you throw your loyal customers under the bus, the word is bound to get out.  This has been a very rocky road since S7 for me and now this happens.

 Sorry Pinnacle but I am really dissappointed here...yes I voted!

Ian,

 Excellent pun.

Marchgale:

Sadly I think we should all be preparing for a huge disappointment. There's a great line by John Cleese in the film Clockwise - "It's not the despair, Laura, I can cope with the despair, it's the hope.....!"

With the best will in the world, and I really want to be wrong about this, I reckon a couple of hundred serious/pro users on this forum won't hold a candle to the mass production of what is at the end of the day a consumer program. If a thousand disappointed users each persuaded five of their friends and colleagues not to buy the product then Pinnacle have lost sales of five thousand x $100/£70 = $0.5m/£350,000. A drop in the ocean, compared with the overall sales of the product, although I don't have a clue what the figures are.

This won't stop me going on to every software review site I can find to offer the review I find appropriate to this disloyal and regrettable action by Pinnacle/Avid. But let's be clear: the bottom line is that Pinnacle Studio can do without the likes of us, the serious users.

Our protest here is no less valid for all that, it's just that maybe we should be getting ready to cope with the despair .... like Cleese, it's the hope I find difficult. Come on Avid, put us out of our misery!

Jonathan

There is one flaw in your evaluation, if you get the word at to reviewers, most large box stores and Internet sites pick this up, this could be the tipping stone for any new user thinking about purchasing studio, think about it. The first time you went looking for a NLE how did you make your decision, for me, I asked the people were I purchased my computer, and I polled the people at Best But, and Fry's. They all agreed at that time that studio was a very good product, with a good reputation. Take any of these two things away, would I still have purchased Studio? Well only if the other NLE's had a worse product or reputation. So putting the facts before people and people are not dumb, they all vote with there wallets. Once you point out to them, studio has inconsistent and not back-wards compatible software re;eases most people will look elsewhere.

As a lot of other software companies have found out the hard way, removing features sometimes can tarnish your company in ways that are not obvious at the start. Sometimes a company has to have very deep pockets to ride out storms like this. I do not think Avid pockets are that deep, not with EOF Liquid, then maybe damaging Studio, and having a already lest then great last few quarter's, this could be a prefect storm if the worst kind in the making for Avid. One that some of there mangers do not see which just adds to there problem.

Check out this thread and get your "protest sign." 

Some of my best stories were set to "Smartsound".

Pinnacle's own website FAQ page is still telling potential S12 upgraders this:

Will my previously purchased content work in Studio 12?

Yes, most any content purchased for use in Studio 10 and 11 will work in Studio 12. This is accomplished using the Content Transfer Wizard.

 

 I guess that "most any content purchased for use in Studio 10 and 11" is their legal loophole 

If Smartsound is to be disabled in the next S12 patch the FAQ should specifically say so.     I have saved the FAQ page to my PC just in case it is needed in the future if the worst really happens.

is their legal loophole 

Again & re: my previous Posts, IMO, they don't have one, if you've already purchased S12 direct from Pinnacle, likewise if you've purchased from a Retail outlet. Again & IMO, what Pinnacle are proposing to do, would certainly be  Illegal,  in the UK. 

Pinhead:

Some of my best stories were set to "Smartsound".

Great new  Avatar, Pinhead

Come & see Pinhead at: pinheadhq.com He'd love to see you all. (BTW, he does read the Guestbook)

I am absolutely NOT supporting Avid on this... but nobody says you have to install any patches

If you don't apply the patch, your existing S12 installation will continue to support SmartSound.  But then again, you'd be stuck with non-functional stuff, like "smart rendering" (or equivalent) of AVCHD files, etc., in which case they still aren't delivering on features that are described on the package, and that also puts them in a legally questionable situation.

Having to chose between a patch that fixes big bugs in the original S12 release or retaining SmartSound support is not an acceptable situation.

It would be bad enough if it were part of a major release, but completely unacceptable as part of a patch, unless there is valid, rational, defensible statement as to "why" (that we could all understand and agree with, like it or not) from Avid.  But I can't even imagine a "licensing" issue with SmartSound being so bitter that it has to affect in-version patches.

tomilling:

 Sorry Pinnacle but I am really dissappointed here...yes I voted!

Me too! 

Fantastic idea for the avatar, great thinking Pinhead.

Thanks

Ian

mcperry:

Pinnacle's own website FAQ page is still telling potential S12 upgraders this:

Will my previously purchased content work in Studio 12?

Yes, most any content purchased for use in Studio 10 and 11 will work in Studio 12. This is accomplished using the Content Transfer Wizard.

 

 I guess that "most any content purchased for use in Studio 10 and 11" is their legal loophole 

If Smartsound is to be disabled in the next S12 patch the FAQ should specifically say so.     I have saved the FAQ page to my PC just in case it is needed in the future if the worst really happens.

Ok, but what do you think about that :

Can SmartSound QuickTracks be used with Studio 12?

Quoted from the last FAQ link pinned by Bertrand here.

saby:

mcperry:

Pinnacle's own website FAQ page is still telling potential S12 upgraders this:

Will my previously purchased content work in Studio 12?

Yes, most any content purchased for use in Studio 10 and 11 will work in Studio 12. This is accomplished using the Content Transfer Wizard.

 

 I guess that "most any content purchased for use in Studio 10 and 11" is their legal loophole 

If Smartsound is to be disabled in the next S12 patch the FAQ should specifically say so.     I have saved the FAQ page to my PC just in case it is needed in the future if the worst really happens.

Ok, but what do you think about that :

Can SmartSound QuickTracks be used with Studio 12?

SmartSound QuickTracks was not included with Studio 11 or 12.  Pinnacle did not tested it with Studio 12 so it is not supported.

Quoted from the last FAQ link pinned by Bertrand here.

From S12 User Manual, Page 183, of my copy.

USING SMARTSOUND: If you have installed songs in SmartSound format on your computer, these will be available for use in the background music tool. To switch between ScroreFitter an SmartSound song collections, make the appropriate choice on the Source dropdown list at the top of the tool window.

What do you think about that? 

Yes, the various information published by Pinnacle does not send the same message.  

Pinnacle may not have tested SS with S12 - but they do know that it works.  If it didn't work, there would be nothing to "remove" in the next patch!

 

these will be available for use in the background music tool.

IMO, the above is a Definitive Statement, made by Pinnacle, after S12 has been purchased. There's no Statement that Pinnacle no longer supports SmartSounds in S12 User Manual. It would be interesting to know if the FAQ was Posted before or after S12 was Launched? In any event, many S12 Purchasers wouldn't read S12's FAQs, untill after they had Purchased S12.

For Pinnacle to offer a Patch to correct a defective product & at the same time, remove the facility to use a feature that was available & isn't defective, would IMO, be open to Litigation.     

Perhaps one resolution to all this, might be for PCLE to quickly provide for download, a whole bunch of ScoreFitter categories and tunes that are close to what SmartSounds came with prev. Studio products.  Scores that are better sounding; that don't sound so low-end(ish) MIDI file(ish)... if that makes sense.