Yes, the title says it all.....

I think you are flogging a dead horse with this repeated request. If Pinnacle had wanted to add more tracks they would have done so by now. No mention of them in S12 - but look at the Montage plug-in!

I'd guess that 95% of  Studio users have no need for further tracks (1), and Pinnacle can't add them without cluttering up the GUI -  if they are going to stick with skins. Hence Montage.

And don't you own Liquid anyway ?

 

 

(1) and over 70% of all statistics are made up on the spot.....
 

Yes,  Liquid user since v5.5. But some things are just easier to do in Studio (I love using SmartMovie for making slide shows). Having additional tracks would keep Studio on par with the competition I believe.

I looked at the plug-ins and they are a good value. But flashy I can already do with Blufftitler. Having Boris and and Magic Bullet Looks included are nice, but wait till you see the type of computer you will need for rendering.

I'll probably go for it. It does have some nice features (as you stated Montage) that are "easy" to use.  

But some things are just easier to do in Studio

And I think that some of the ease of use comes from the simple interface 3 tab interface, which works well even of 1024 displays. Start adding more tracks and you will need resizeable windows and scroll bars, and before you know it, Studio will look just like any other Editing GUI.

Of course more tracks would be good, but it's how to implement them.....

jjn:

Of course more tracks would be good, but it's how to implement them.....

Studio could give ONE additional video track very easily with no change to the layout of the GUI at all. The title overlay track could be made "general purpose" just like the overlay video track, so you could drop anything you liked on it (video clip, still image or title overlay).

Studio 12's "Montage" feature looks useful - but still no good for editing a 3-camera shoot.

Regards,
Richard

A valid point, but wouldn't you need an audio track associated with it? You can add a still image to the overlay track. Even with my preview window at it's smallest, it's starting to look a little crowded.

Anyway, I think Pinnacle have made a positive decision not to include another full video track. They have to draw the line somewhere - and I'd guess that if you are doing a 3-camera shoot, they would expect you to be using Liquid

While Liquid is great for multi-cam shoots, it is an EOL program. And the wait for "NextGen" is close to a year away. Having an extra video track that can be expanded or compressed to "disappear" isn't too much to ask for. The price difference between Studio and Liquid is a lot to pay for, for an extra audio/video track.

Sorry, but I have to agree completely that Studio needs to have more video and audio tracks available to it.  That's exactly why I still use Ulead's Media Studio Pro, even though that product has been EOL for a while now.  It much easier to lay out video and audio for cutscenes and overdubs, especially sudden ones, on a multi-track layout.  Even Ulead has realized that people want multiple video/audio tracks because they've implemented SEVEN video tracks in VideoStudio 11, even though I will admit that I don't like how they're also sticking with two audio tracks.  I can have up to nine video and audio tracks in MSP, and I often use at least five at the same time in my projects.

Whereas I appreciate that some people have real estate issues, it is very arrogant to assume that just because some people have a smaller resolution screen then EVERYONE has a smaller resolution screen.  That is the kind of resistance that I've seen here, and that is no excuse.  There is no reason (except for pure laziness) why Pinnacle won't add an additional layout for larger screens to allow a multi-track design while still making the current modes available. 

If you don't like a more advanced interface and you don't have the real estate for it, then DON'T USE IT.  Just stick with the layouts that are currently available.  But don't say that Pinnacle shouldn't add it as an option just because you personally can't or don't want to use it. 

This ridiculous refusal of Pinnacle to add a more advanced interface with multiple, true audio and video tracks is exactly why I have not and probably will not purchase any of new or future versions of Studio.

I was actually looking at Liquid, but now that I know it's been EOLed as well, I'm staying away from it. 

I will probably end up sticking with MSP  because of its video and audio multi-track capabilities and stick with Studio 10.5 for the more basic functionalities, in which case I have no reason to support Studio in the future -- all because Pinnacle has stubbornly refused to add a more advanced, optional interface for those of us who need something between Studio and Liquid.

There is no reason to require Liquid for multi-camera shots. 

I use two cameras with my projects.  I capture all of the data from the DV tapes on both cameras, then just mix the various scenes together from the two cameras.  Syncing up the video with audio is a bit of a pain, but Media Studio Pro makes that relatively easy with their multi-track timeline layout.  Maybe Liquid makes it easier -- I don't know because I've never used it and won't pay for it now that it's EOL -- but I've been doing just fine with Media Studio Pro. 

I could probably be doing just as well with Studio if they'd allow multiple video/audio tracks!  There are times where I'm using as many as five video elements simultaneously, especially if I have to do matted widescreen, and multiple audio tracks if I need to integrate several different elements.

Even though it might sound like I'm some kind if power user who needs the power of Liquid or Premiere, the reality is that I could easily achieve almost all that I need to achieve if Pinnacle would just implement multiple tracks in studio with the ability to do fades/effects or transparency between tracks.  They already have that between two tracks.  Would it really be that difficult to add an optional layout to allow for more than just two?

 

Imagine if you could hide/unhide (collapse/expand) the audio and video portions of a track.

Even if it didn't go away completely, you could make it a narrow band.  You could see that you have something on the timeline, even if you couldn't really see it very well.

How often do you REALLY need to see the waveform?  Or perhaps I should say, how often do you need to see ALL the waveforms at the same time?  You could make the voice-over and music tracks very skinny, and that would make room for another video track.

If you showed ALL the tracks (including a brand new, additional video (with audio) track) they would be sort of squished, but you could "collapse" as many as you want and have a larger (taller, fatter) view of the timeline tracks you are current focusing your attention on.

it is very arrogant to assume that just because some people have a smaller resolution screen then EVERYONE has a smaller resolution screen.

My screen resolution is 1440*900. What I'm pointing out is one of the reasons why I think Pinnacle haven't implemented more video tracks.

But don't say that Pinnacle shouldn't add it as an option just because you personally can't or don't want to use it.

Where did I say they shouldn't?  I'm saying it will clutter the current interface.I'm saying that Pinnacle see Studio as an entry level editor, priced to suit

There is no reason (except for pure laziness) why Pinnacle won't add an additional layout for larger screens to allow a multi-track design while still making the current modes available.

What about marketing? I'd speculate that what you are proposing is exactly what Pinnacle are planning NextGen to be - an advanced editor that Studio users can migrate to easily

This ridiculous refusal of Pinnacle to add a more advanced interface with multiple, true audio and video tracks is exactly why I have not and probably will not purchase any of new or future versions of Studio.

No - and I don't think Pinnacle want you to buy Studio - they want you to buy Liquid's replacement. Hence another reason why they haven't added more tracks to S12.

I really though they would add another track with S12. For people like you, though, one wouldn't be enough, would it? With other editing programs offering 99 or unlimited tracks, it wouldn't be much of a marketing ploy - and you would be clamouring for another track in St13.

How much extra are you willing to pay for this advanced version of Studio you feel Pinnacle are too lazy to produce? Or are you arrogant enough to believe there is such a thing as a free lunch?
 

 

Imagine if you could hide/unhide (collapse/expand) the audio and video portions of a track.

Have you tried Vegas Studio, Dennis?

Like Vegas

Don't get me wrong, I wish Studio had added more video tracks also.  But I have invested in Vegas and am on that learning curve right now.  Had Studio added more tracks I probably wouldn't have given Vegas a second glance.  Not saying I wont be getting Studio 12....

jjn beat me to it!

jjn:

I really though they would add another track with S12. For people like you, though, one wouldn't be enough, would it? With other editing programs offering 99 or unlimited tracks, it wouldn't be much of a marketing ploy - and you would be clamouring for another track in St13.

How much extra are you willing to pay for this advanced version of Studio you feel Pinnacle are too lazy to produce? Or are you arrogant enough to believe there is such a thing as a free lunch?

Oh, I see.  You're one of those people where if someone dares to criticize your position suddenly we are demanding too much or we want a free lunch.  Nice.  I don't even know why I should bother to reply to your type of attitude, but here goes...

First off, I said clearly that I use maybe five overlays at a time (sometimes, but rarely, six), so your juvenile rant about demanding 99 tracks was completely unnecessary.  But God forbid that someone come up with a position contrary to yours, right? 

Now, from a purely competitive standpoint, if Ulead is now doing it in Video Studio, which really is Pinnacle's main competitor in this space, it's time for Pinnacle to step up to the plate and at the very least offer the same or risk looking like they're falling behind.  Better yet, they could just as easily get a leg-up on Ulead by offering not only 7 video tracks but also 7 audio tracks by way of a fourth interface that customers should voluntarily utilize.  It's called "competition" and generally keeps the industry healthy by constantly improving the product.

Secondly, at what point did I ever say that I would be unwilling to pay for it as an extra?  When I did mention that I would insist that such an option should be included in the software's existing price?  Do please find where I said that, because I can't remember typing it, nor do I see it anywhere in my responses. For your information, I've purchased entire Hollywood FX sets simply because I wanted one of the effects that was in the set.  So, spare me your puerile exaggerations and incorrect assumptions about me not being willing to pay for extra features.

Additionally, the Studio look and feel has not changed since version 8, and possibly earlier versions.  (My first Studio purchase was 8, so I don't know how previous versions looked.)  Whereas that's not a bad thing (I obviously need to stress that or else you'll come up with some other rant, I'm sure) and certainly gives familiarity and comfort to long-time users, it also doesn't necessarily indicate any progress to those of us who would love to continue using the Studio series but are completely restricted by the interface.  It's nice that they add so many other features and functions, but when the main bottleneck is the lack of a more advanced interface for the past four versions, Pinnacle is isolating a segment of the user base that probably doesn't need to be isolated.  If their purpose in doing that was to try to entice people to make the $500+ jump to Liquid just for a change in the interface, that purpose has clearly failed.

So, spare me your childish rant about wanting a "free lunch" or wanting 99 overlays when I never said nor implied that I wanted either.  Your ridiculous and unnecessary embellishment says far more about you than it does of me.  Learn to take an opposing view as just that -- an opposing view.  Get over yourself.  If we didn't want to stay with Studio, we wouldn't bother posting "feature requests".

jjn:

Imagine if you could hide/unhide (collapse/expand) the audio and video portions of a track.

Have you tried Vegas Studio, Dennis?

The whole point of bringing issues like these to this thread, especially considering that it's a "Feature Request" thread, is that we don't want to go to competitors.  We like Studio.  We want to keep working with Studio.  But if Pinnacle doesn't add the features that we're looking for -- which really would not be all that difficult to implement, even if it means an optional interface to choose from -- where is the incentive to stay with Studio?

Unfortunately, your responses in this particular thread, especially to the idea of modifications to the way that overlays are handled, seem to be more like "either enjoy what Studio offers or go to a competitor".  If that's the case, Pinnacle might as well close this entire section of the forum.

Whoa

Just lay off the name calling alright? In your first post you call me arrogant, now I'm puerile, and childish. I'm not even putting over my point of view, but my reasoning why Pinnacle have failed to respond to the requests for extra tracks for at least two years now.

I thought we were having a robust discussion. If you want a flame war I'm afraid you are out of luck.
 

Jeff, Sounds like a Liquid moderator to me, eh?

You can color correct your video shot with 2 different cameras with Liquid. And using Multi-Cam...it is real simple to go from camera to camera at any point on the timeline. Check out this tutorial and you will see how easy it is to use Multicam in Liquid. You will also see tutorials for color correction in the list. Even though Liquid is an EOL program, it really isn't just yet. All the features still work. And the feature set is extremely rich. The only problem I have is with DX10 video cards. And they are working on a patch for this. When this happens... LOOK OUT!   Multicore computer and blazingly fast DX10 card are on the way!

 

jjn:

Imagine if you could hide/unhide (collapse/expand) the audio and video portions of a track.

Have you tried Vegas Studio, Dennis?

Jeff,

No, I haven't.  Aside from a brief (very brief) experimentation with the free Microsoft Movie Maker, all my video work has been done in Studio, thanks in large part to this forum.  I have used enough software to know that nothing is perfect, but here I saw a dynamic support community that was lacking in the competitor's sites when I started this hobby.

Apparently my "design" is similar to how Vegas Studio works, if I interpret Jeff's "winkey" correctly, so maybe my ENHANCEMENT SUGGESTION wasn't entirely crazy. 

Comparing a feature request to features already available in competitor's products is not the same as suggesting someone jump ship.  I simply see it as a way to add credibility to the request.  But as has been mentioned, there is always a line you must draw between features, usability, and price.  Exactly where the line is drawn will always be a topic for much lively debate.

I agree. This is EXACTLY WHAT I NEED. Two (maybe more...but two at least!) camcorder tracks that I can sync and lock... and then bring in audio track from the board separately (knocking out the camcorder audio tracks after the entire thing has been locked in sync)...then cross dissolve (not just stamp over) at will between the tracks. This is a basic Live Show technique, whether a news program or a music video. In iMovie, when I try to approximate this, perhaps cheating by imposing a general closeup shot over the group shot, the audio gets squished in with the cross dissolves, shorting the entire video by a few seconds...then audio sync is out.

 All these middle of the road video editing programs (ie, beyhond MM2 and iMovie) offer so many eyecandy filters and transitions, but not offer this BASIC video program necessity. This is not insane, this is BASIC.
 

Was considering Pinnacle as option, now guess not.  

 You used Media Studio Pro? and Not Movie Studio Pro? What version?

This is not insane, this is BASIC.

If I understand correctly what you are trying to do, then if you have Studio Plus it's possible to mix between the two video tracks without affecting the audio.

You lock the audio of the top track. Then you drop the video you want to mix in and out of on the overlay track, syncing up the audio as required before locking that audio too. Now cut holes in the overlay track where you want the main video to show through. To mix or use any other transition, just drag the transition to the overlay track.

However - if you want to use three cameras, you are stuffed, and the above method can be a bit difficult to get the hang of. 

Hmm.  This thread seems to have degenerated from a free exchange ideas to ego-defensive repetitions of individual positions.

Please allow me to add this in an attempt to get it back on track:

In another thread I recommended that Avid/Pinnacle continue the integration of Studio and Liquid products into a single application.  That would accomplish a couple things:

1)  It would give Studio the potential for a much richer feature set...including the additional video tracks that have long been a desire of more advanced users.

2)  It would revamp and modernize the currently EOL Liquid, which has a quirky and outdated user interface.  Since the Studio UI is much easier to learn and use, the combined products would be much more attractive to editors at the top end.

As a former computer programmer, I know that the cost of integrating the two products together would be materially less than developing entirely new products from scratch.  It would also provide a seamless migration path from an entry-level product to one with full professional capabilities.

My recommendation would be to replace the current Studio with Studio Plus for the entry level and establish another point...perhaps multi-camera capabilities...that includes more video tracks for the intermediate product, leaving the fully integrated product at the professional level.  I'd bet due to its short, shallow learning curve, rich feature set and seamless migration path, the combined product would find rapid acceptance from all segments of the video editing market.

From my personal wish list:  I'd like to see more professional-looking templates in backgrounds, the montage and other albums.  Studio users are much more diverse than just home users who want to document birthdays, baby showers, etc., but many of us are not able to upgrade to a full professional product yet.

Studio is a somewhat unique product line. It addresses a wide range of usage levels, from the absolute beginner right up to 'pro-sumer'. It has one of the shortest learning curves of any editor I have tried, yet is capable of producing results comparable with the 'big boys', and has a myriad of tricks and effects that belies its cost. However, there are two capabilities that let it down - no alpha-channel capability, and lack of multi-tracks.

I am no beginner, having been in this game for a number of years, but I would classify myself as a ca