I was active in the beginning of this thread, but have been silently reading since. It seems that the handles are fixed in S12.

I've figured out most of the workarounds in S11. However I'm slowly warming up to the possibility of upgrading to S12. Keep the good remarks coming, I've got a lot of catching up to do.

towbar,

The screwy volume handles are only one of the many fatal problems I've had with S12+.  The volume handles are just a symptom of a much bigger multi-threading problem.  Ok, maybe my hardware configuration is the cause, but Studio crashes with M/S error dialogs, crashes silently w/o error dialog, hangs w/o using any CPU, the clip trimmer (first tool in the video toolbox) doesn't position properly, video is often rendered black, etc, etc.  Is it just me?

Is a GeForce 7300LE (512MB)  that crappy a video card?  Is 2GB of RAM not enough?  Does a dual-monitor system throw a monkey wrench?  Does having the program and the content distributed across multiple harddisks mess things up?

I'm fully updated on XP and driver patches, the disks have been defragmented, the hardware is less than 1 year old and works fine for numerous other graphically intense programs.

It's a cool program that has greatly disappointed me, I'm willing to be instructed. 

 

Daniel

I run St12 on XP with a 512 7600GS and 1 GB of ram. I don't currently run two monitors, but have in the past with a lower spec gpu. I have three hard discs divided into 5 partions, and dual boot set-up with S12 install cleanly on one, and S9, 11 12, Vegas, Nero, a full Office suite, games and family history apps running on the other. in the last week I've made about 10 DVDs without a single crash - some on the general partion.. I'm only seeing a few issues. I could list them, but apart from the occasional silent crash when working the last montage of a series, none relate to what you are posting.

I've been using DV video, mpgs ripped from DVDs and mpegs and AVIs caputured via my 700PCI. No AVCHD, although I sometimes mess around with HD slideshows.

What I don't use is mpeg video footage taken from a digital stills camera (DSC-H1?). Is this your main source? If so, how does S12 behave on other sources of video?

If that camera isn't using the same mpg codec as Studio, or like some stills cameras uses 30fps rather than 29.97, or possibly uses an audio format that is unusual, then it might be one of the causes of the problems.

Worth a shot, perhaps.

 

dstine:

Is a GeForce 7300LE (512MB)  that crappy a video card?  Is 2GB of RAM not enough? 

Not a good combination as the 7300LE has turbocache (shared memory). That means some of your 2 GB is being used for video memory. The video card won't help with the AVCHD processing (that much), getting one (even a now inexpensive 7600GT) without shared memory will help Studio and your system as you will have more RAM available.

Mark. I hope Daniel isn't trying to edit AVCHD - the CPU is a single core 1.8Ghz, so it only meets the minimum for SD. Actually, that might be a 2 core, which still isn't enough for AVCHD, is it?

Doesn't look like it. It appears that it is mpeg from a digitial still camera. If he was trying to edit AVCHD, he would likely have even more trouble.

ok, details details...

1.8 GHz Intel Core 2

Plain old 640x480 MPEG-1 (25 fps) video from my still camera. Not HD.

I also have a video capture device that generates 29.97 fps.   I've only experienced the problem with the 25 fps (PAL rate) stuff.  Of course, I have one clip that makes it very easy to break the handles, I haven't found any others that cause it.  It seems that the automatic scene detection is also an element in the problem.

Shared video memory, sure, but so what? I haven't exhausted main memory.  Studio.exe peaks at around 230MB. It's the only foreground application running.  Total used < 600 MB.

You've made my point that I have adequate hardware to run the program with moderate sized projects.

Oh, yeah, in addition to hanging using no CPU I forgot to add that it also hangs using 50% CPU (one entire core).

 
I am using the Dell OEM driver for the GeForce.  I might switch to the NVIDIA retail version tonight just for fun.


 

 

Daniel,

Any chance you could post the one file and have others try to break the volume handles? INteresting that S12 peaks at ~230 MB or so. When I open up S12 with virtually nothing in the lbum (and nothing in the timeline, I get 267 MB with no footage in the timeline. I wonder what other people get (or is that just related to plugins that hve to be in memory...

ok, details details...

The devil is in the detail 

I've only experienced the problem with the 25 fps (PAL rate) stuff.

Volume handle problems, or all all the other stuff? (I'd guess just the volume handles?)

640*480 mpeg-1 25 fps. In a PAL or NTSC project?

If I were using that footage in any sort of project, because of it's relatively non--standard nature and codec, I'd up-convert it 720 PAL/NTSC DV-AVI. depending on the final output. I'd check it carefully for sync issues, then I'd perform some scene detection on it. When I've tried to include mobile phone video footage in a project, I've always ended up upconverting it first. I'm not say you should have to do this, it's just that I take a pragmatic approach when using Studio.

There is a 20% chance that a 25fps clip in a 29.97fps project will start or end on a duplicate frame that has been generated by Studio. That's a good candidate for a potential programming error.

I think shared memory is an issue only when there is a change in the video memory requirements during a GPU operation, or when people haven't enough total memory because of the GPU requirements. I'd expect shared memory to be a potential problem when, for example, you add a vitascene filter to a clip.

jjn:

There is a 20% chance that a 25fps clip in a 29.97fps project will start or end on a duplicate frame that has been generated by Studio. That's a good candidate for a potential programming error.

I was editing video from a Canon S3 IS digital camera when I experienced volume handle problems. It shoots video @ 30 fps.

Very interesting Paul. Then the only two reported cases of the Volume handles not working correctly in Studio 12 are from people who were using footage that was shot with stills cameras. Studio will have to do something about the 30fps footage in a NTSC 29.97 project as well.

Was your footage mpeg-1 or mpeg-2 Paul? According to the Canon website in the UK, your camera shoots video as 640*480 30fps AVI MJPEG (not MPEG). It was just one clip, wasn't it? Have you manged to reproduce it?

Yes, now you're on to something...

Here's another hint.  The reason the automatic scene detection for one specific 25 fps clip caused the problem is because a scene break occurred at 49 (sec) 27 (frames) into the clip.

Can anyone say 2*25?

I still haven't had enough time to distill this down to a "recipe", but I made a cut in another movie from my camera at 49.27 and was able to break the handles in exactly the same way.  Create a handle on either side of the cut and drag one of them over the boundary and back.  (I'll have to specify the exact order and direction later.)

Looks more like a frame rate conversion problem now.

 

It's an NTSC 29.97 project.
Background rendering is turned off.
Automatic project save/restore is turned on.

 

Jeff,

Yes, it is an AVI that the camera produces.

No, I haven't been able to reproduce it to this point. I am trying though. 

Ok,  Here's a slightly longer than 1 min clip of 25 fps MPEG-1 from my Sony DSC-H1.  It's a little over 22MB.

Unfortunately, I don't have permission to post it.

 

• Create a new NTSC Standard project and drop the clip into the timeline.
• Double-click on the clip to bring up the "Clip Properties Tool".
• Try to advance frame by frame using the up/down arrows in the Transport Controls in the middle.
• You won't get past the 3rd frame sequentially.
• Any other manipulation of those arrows doesn't work, in fact, up goes backwards in time
• Grabbing the scrubbing handle doesn't work either, time just jumps around
  

What am I missing here? Yes, we have a frame rate mismatch, doesn't Studio handle that?
But, we continue...

• Drag one of the other two time sliders to near the end of 49 seconds.
• Depending on the time scaling you might see either frame 27, 28 or 29 "missing" ie. won't be able to select it using the coarse sliders.
• Pick 49.29 if possible
• Cut the clip with the razor blade tool
• Click on the left hand clip and set a volume control handle
• Click on the right side clip and set a 2nd volume handle
• Click a third handle in between the first two, but on the right side of the cut
• Drag the third handle left across the cut and back
  
• (here it's a little fuzzy) Continue to click interior handles and drag them over the cut.
• Eventually, the handles get all screwed up as described.

Am I crazy?  Can anyone else repeat my results?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just thought I'd chime in as another v12 user with the same volume adjustment handle bug.  It seemed to appear for the first time in v11 and it's still there in v12 Ultimate.  Seems to appear after a lot of audio adjusting.  It's not quite as bad as v11 in that I can sometimes force the handle to move by trying again and again, which clutters up the waveform with a bunch of superfluous handles, but that sort of perseverance works about 50% of the time.  FYI, I held off on the upgrade from v9 nearly *forever* because of the v10 horror stories on the Internet forums.  I bought a Sony HDR-HC7 high def camera which forced my v11 upgrade and then I went to v12 in hopes of greater stability... which I sort of got, but that pesky volume handle glitch is still there, plain as day. 

 Windows Vista Home Premium, Lenovo 3000J, Intel Pentium D 3.4GHz, 2GB RAM

dstine:

Unfortunately, I don't have permission to post it.

Please Try to upload it with mediafire and post the link here.

William, would you by any chance be using videos that were captured from a Digital camera @ 30FPS?

http://www.mediafire.com/?2jxjj18hmej

That's the original MPEG.

I don't know how to share the project.  Is it the empty .stx file or the secret noaccess folder?

 

dstine:

 I don't know how to share the project.  Is it the empty .stx file or the secret noaccess folder?

 

Both.

To see what's in the "secret" folder just add it to a zip and unzip everything except desktop.ini.

 

 

Tests are underway, thanks for posting this Dstine.

Update: Tested

Details:

Video: MOV04592.MPG
Size: 640x480
Compression: MPEG 1
Frame Rate: 25 FPS

Result: Confirmed

Tried the mentioned recipe and confirmed the frame selection error and Volume handles break. Attempted to fix by rendering MPG - AVI-DV 29.7 fps, no go. Frame issue was resolved but handles are still breakable.Will report this ASAP.

(Marc

Is that just a moderator power to include in-line images?)

Thanks Marc!!!  It sounds like this bug is officially on the Pinnacle app dev radar screens... hooray!!!    And to answer your question, my projects have all been NTSC 29.97 FPS.

jjn:

(Marc

Is that just a moderator power to include in-line images?)

Unfortunately I just found out that it is. 

William, I'm hoping that it gets written up for a bug report soon. By the way, The videos that you used in your projects, do they also run @ 29.97 fps or they are converted to become 29.97? What camera did you shoot your videos with?

Update: Tested
Result: Confirmed

Thank you, Marc.

Now that is the sort of feedback we have longed for here.  Knowing that engineering "heard our cries" is a wonderful thing.  Thanks again, and keep it up. 

justaviking:

Update: Tested
Result: Confirmed

Thank you, Marc.

Now that is the sort of feedback we have longed for here.  Knowing that engineering "heard our cries" is a wonderful thing.  Thanks again, and keep it up. 

I'll see to it that I watch S12 carefully and report anything that I can reproduce as soon as I get the results.