Hi:

I've been searching for info about this issue, but I have not found much info except for this 2 posts over the Avid forum: (the first wasn't fully answered):

Topic: Anyone tried DVD authoring/output yet???

"bertran:

Just finished buring my first DVD, a 90 minute compilation of clips; simple menu with 8 chapters.  I created an ISO image and then burned to disk.  I used PCM audio, VBR (around 6,000 kbit).  It rendered, burned and played flawlessly. 

Is there any way to see exactly how long it takes to render a DVD project?  I think it took as much as 5 hours, but I'm not sure.  It would be helpful because on long renders I bill my clients a modest computer charge, since it's tying up my editing computer.  How long should a 90 minute project take on a dual Xeon computer with 2 gigs of RAM?

sverkalo: (answering)

Maybe Dual Core 2 is faster from Xeon.
At my specs I have tested and I saw that the DVD from timeline takes almost double the lenght of it.
At 7.1 for a 45' timeline it was about 90'. Now it takes about 80 to 84'.
With a Core 2 I think this will go less than RT.

P.S. I always and only use the default preset for TS_FOLDER and fit the best quality."

-(Me, now) :"With a Core 2 I think this will go less than RT."

It's that so?

I still have AL7.1 installed in my old Dual Xeon 2.4 GHz box with 1 GB of ram and and a Geforce 6800 XT. And my time for encoding an ISO file at around 7500 Mb/ts CBR is like 1.75x times.

For a 1 hour timeline with 3 chapters AL7.1 encodes the ISO file in 1 hour 45 minutes. (After a year... I've just installed AL7.2!, and I will see if it makes a difference)


I have a newer MOBO, Duo 2 Core 2.4 GHz, 4 GB of Ram and a Geforce 8600 GT card sitting in my tool box that I could use instead of my old rig.

Do you think that the newer parts would encode the same ISO file in Real Time? (1 hour)

If thats the case I will upgrade my system, otherwise I will wait until the old rig dies in order to replace it.

 

Any advice on this issue please?

 
Thanks,
Cesar Rubio.
 

Straight to DVD from timeline without a menu and I use the TS_FOLDER preset as I said there, a 45-48' minutes timeline with almost 1000 elements on timeline,

takes not more than 34-35 minutes. I was right in my assumption that a Core 2 Duo will take less than RT. But I am using a Quad Core. 

George:

Do you think that a Menu with 4 chapter will make any big difference? 

Also I think I've read about AL7.2 having problems with DirectX 10 video cards, is that true?

 

Thanks,

CR.
 

 

nVidia DX10 cards (in the 8000 series) do not work with Liquid. Green flashes on rendering. ATI 2900 cards sort of work but not recommended.

Lew:

What is the maximun nVidia series that Liquid can work with?

Thanks,

CR.
 

LewS:

nVidia DX10 cards (in the 8000 series) do not work with Liquid. Green flashes on rendering. ATI 2900 cards sort of work but not recommended.

Sorry its self explanatory...So it's the 7000 series.

Thanx,

CR. 

I am not up on nVidia cards. You should be able to use any quality DirectX 9 nVidia or ATI card with Liquid. The best card to date appears to be the ATI 1950 Pro series cards. Similar nVidia cards should also be fine. Until the patch of the Liquid 3D render engine is released, it is best to avoid any DX 10 cards. There is no ETA on the patch.

 

I only found these 3 1950 pro ATI videocards available:

 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2010380048+1305520549+106790809+1067924896&name=Radeon+X1950PRO

 
I hate videocards with fans. I LOVE fanless videocards (and PC components), probably I will get this one instead: (which is the max specs fanless videocard with DirectX 9 that I could find)

 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121021


Thanks again,
CR.
 

I would assume it would work although it is a pretty low end card. I prefer ATI cards.

 

Lew:

The render times in the timeline are a lot better with the ATI 1950 pro cards?

If that is the case, I might buy this card (which is the only NEW card BTW):

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814131055

 
CR.
 

 

What about ATI cards with DirectX 10?

Do they work with Liquid or not?

 

The 2900 series cards appear to work with some minor problems. It is highly recommended that you stick with a DX 9 card at this time.

Ok Lew will do...

By 2900 you mean all 2000 ATI series?

 
 

 

 

Yes.

Not very sure of that the 2400 and 2600 card will work, the 2900 might work if you can avoid GPU filters.

If you have to use a DX10 compliant card, you might run Liquid on a DX10 OS, the only one for that is Vista.

The 2900 card runs well with Liquid and Vista, however Liquid not is certified to run under Vista, you might be prepared to have to be rather good at computers and OS to be able to do this.

So, in short, if you only are editing and not are playing games or are doing other stuff that demands a DX10 compliant card, use a DX9 card, the DX10 cards are aimed for Vista.

mjolnarn:

So, in short, if you only are editing and not are playing games or are doing other stuff that demands a DX10 compliant card, use a DX9 card, the DX10 cards are aimed for Vista.

 

I have a Quad Core PC and another Duo 2 Core one (both at 2.4 Ghz) with DX10 cards and running XP pro.

I have PP and Vegas installed in those configurations and I never had a single problem with those applications and the cards...

 
CR.
 

The menu creating is just a snap.

I don't think the menu will make any difference in speed.

I have tried this as well. No problem.

And as for the card that was the reason that even if I have build a new system I chose 1950.

Faster than any DX9 and working good with Liquid. Now after the patch I might add a new 3870. 

Cesar Rubio:

mjolnarn:

So, in short, if you only are editing and not are playing games or are doing other stuff that demands a DX10 compliant card, use a DX9 card, the DX10 cards are aimed for Vista.

I have a Quad Core PC and another Duo 2 Core one (both at 2.4 Ghz) with DX10 cards and running XP pro.

I have PP and Vegas installed in those configurations and I never had a single problem with those applications and the cards...

Í am not interested in how many apps you have installed on your machine, my own is rather filled up with all sort of editing apps, I was just trying to help you as you are a Liquid user, what works with Vegas or PP is not of any interest for me, I am currently making full bluray production out of Liquid.

mjolnarn:

Cesar Rubio:

mjolnarn:

So, in short, if you only are editing and not are playing games or are doing other stuff that demands a DX10 compliant card, use a DX9 card, the DX10 cards are aimed for Vista.

I have a Quad Core PC and another Duo 2 Core one (both at 2.4 Ghz) with DX10 cards and running XP pro.

I have PP and Vegas installed in those configurations and I never had a single problem with those applications and the cards...

Í am not interested in how many apps you have installed on your machine, my own is rather filled up with all sort of editing apps, I was just trying to help you as you are a Liquid user, what works with Vegas or PP is not of any interest for me, I am currently making full bluray production out of Liquid.

 

Wow easy Tomas!

I made the comment because you said that DX10 is aimed for Vista...that's all.

In my AL7 machine I only like to have 1 application installed, and that is AL7!...Nothing else.

CR. 

 

Ok; i was just afraid that we should run into one of these never ending dx10 patches threads again, Liquid can do things that the other apps cannot do but you need a DX9 videocard for Liquid to do this work well and with very nice render and encoding results

Those who like Liquid very much as me are just like women at the difficult days.

We get upset very easily and especially now we are unsure about the future.

Will Liquid survive in another form? That is the question. 

sverkalo:

Those who like Liquid very much as me are just like women at the difficult days.

We get upset very easily and especially now we are unsure about the future.

Will Liquid survive in another form? That is the question. 

But I am not upset, George, I am doing very high tech stuff together with Liquid and a couple of other apps right now, the best from three worlds, this is currently the best workflow I believe, tomorrow, or next year, things might have changed, and I am using other applications, we hope that it will be an Avid application but that is up to Avid to show some results.

And about the first, major question, an iso file creating time of about 75 % of the original length, should be a normal value from a nice editing computer right now.

 

Thanks guys for your input.

Now its time for me to make a decision..."to be or not to be".... with DX9...

CR. 

It's not that hard for you I think.

A DX9 card can cost not more than 100$ now. 

Cesar,

How long it's going to take to render depends on several things.  The type of video on the timeline, whether effects are there which have to be rendered (and how many and how complex) from yellow to green slices, the timeline properties and maybe others that could be less influential.

As an example, I capture using the DVD M2V codec at 8.5Mbps (the factory preset is 8Mbps) to make DVDs from my material.  Doing that instead of capturing as 25Mbps DV AVI cuts down the rendering by about 2/3 on my system.  Put another way, if I take an hour worth of DV AVI with no effects and render to DVD, it's done (including burning) in about an hour or so.  If I take an hour worth of DVD M2V video with no effects and render to DVD, it's done (including burning) in about 20 minutes.

There's no way to estimate what time it will take for you because it will depend not only on your computer but also on exactly what you're exporting and how.

If you don't have your yellow slices already rendered to green before exporting, that will have to take place once you start the export and increases the apparent export time.  If you render the yellow slices to green first, it will still take the same length of total time but the export time by itself will be shorter.  Either way, yellow slices have to render and they can render in the background while you're doing something else with the sequence or they can render during export when you can't do anything else.

As far as the GPUs are concerned, you could get by with a cheap 6000 series Nvidia if you wanted.  I still see them in the stores.  I use a 7600 GT which works fine with Liquid and it isn't very expensive.  The Nvidia 8000s and up will surely give you grief as well as probably most of the newer ATI models.  The only ATI I've heard enough good reports about to try is the 2900, I think.  Don't assume that others in the 2000 series will work.  Any reports of those seeming to work were likely from people who had no idea what problems to look for and who never ran the proper tests to find out.