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Timeline re-render on cut

Last post 05-06-2022, 10:04 by jjn. 5 replies.
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  •  05-02-2022, 20:35 822023

    Timeline re-render on cut

    In order to have a smooth playback of my footage (UHD 100 Mbits/sec 50FPS) I allow the footage to render completely. Once rendered I can smoothly find the point on the timeline to make a cut. However, as soon as I make a cut the rendering bar appears again in random sections of the footage both before and after the cut point, I can't do anything then until the footage has been rendered again which can take 30 minutes or more on a 15 minute timeline. Is this normal? Is it because the footage is too demanding for P25? I don't think it's my PC as it's a brand new powerhouse. I tried this in Adobe Elements and once rendered I could cut away with no further rendering. I don't really want to have to use Adobe but it's looking like I may have to. Am I doing something wrong here? My settings are

     

    Hardware Acceleration ON - CUDA
    Optimisation threshold 100%
    Render whilst play - automatic

     I've played around with all those settings including 3rd party codecs, nothing seems to make any difference.

     

    Any help would be appreciated. 

     

  •  05-03-2022, 18:29 822035 in reply to 822023

    Re: Timeline re-render on cut

    I've mostly sorted this out by not nesting the timeline and keeping all the little clips as they are. It still randomly renders clips I have not been working on but it's only a minute or so after each change which I can live with. I assume nobody else has this issue or perhaps doesn't use such hi-res files, it's certainly not an issue with the HD footage at 25fps.
  •  05-05-2022, 8:55 822065 in reply to 822035

    Re: Timeline re-render on cut

    With Optimization set to 100, it will always re-render the timeline no matter what.

    With my PC specs below, I have Optimization at 70. Sometimes 50 depending on what I am doing, Render While Play automatic and Hardware for me, AMD. 

    Of course, in a nested clip, any change will result in timeline rendering again. 

    I personally rarely use nested clips and will have plenty of tracks. I guess I am used to it. 

  •  05-06-2022, 3:32 822078 in reply to 822065

    Re: Timeline re-render on cut

    You "should" be able to make trims to a rendered timeline without the whole timeline having to be rerendered, but in pinnacle it depends on the version, the complexity of the timeline and the footage. Sometimes just setting PO as low as 20% will mean the whole timeline is a target for rendering, and a small change can trigger a complete re-render (which I consider either a bug or poor design).

    It's hard to predict what someone else's hardware would be capable of, but I have similar footage from my camera (a Panasonic X1000) - but note it is h.264. I have a less powerful computer than yours. However, if the footage you are working with is h. 265, I doubt if the following is a potential workflow. The later gopros, phones and drones can shoot in h. 265.

     If I work in Balanced/Quickest preview mode, with optimisiation turned off, I can just get good enough preview to make considered judgements about edit points, until I start adding colour corrections and other effects. So for a longer project I do an "offline" pass first, getting the shots the right length and order. Then I add titles and transitions before switching to full quality preview and 100% Playback optimisation. Finally I do an "online" edit when I grade the pictures. This way the amount of renderering is less and I can do the creative stuff without having to wait for the rendering.


  •  05-06-2022, 5:06 822080 in reply to 822078

    Re: Timeline re-render on cut

    jjn:

    You "should" be able to make trims to a rendered timeline without the whole timeline having to be rerendered, but in pinnacle it depends on the version, the complexity of the timeline and the footage. Sometimes just setting PO as low as 20% will mean the whole timeline is a target for rendering, and a small change can trigger a complete re-render (which I consider either a bug or poor design).

    It's hard to predict what someone else's hardware would be capable of, but I have similar footage from my camera (a Panasonic X1000) - but note it is h.264. I have a less powerful computer than yours. However, if the footage you are working with is h. 265, I doubt if the following is a potential workflow. The later gopros, phones and drones can shoot in h. 265.

     If I work in Balanced/Quickest preview mode, with optimisiation turned off, I can just get good enough preview to make considered judgements about edit points, until I start adding colour corrections and other effects. So for a longer project I do an "offline" pass first, getting the shots the right length and order. Then I add titles and transitions before switching to full quality preview and 100% Playback optimisation. Finally I do an "online" edit when I grade the pictures. This way the amount of renderering is less and I can do the creative stuff without having to wait for the rendering.


     

    Thanks JJN

     

    Yes h.264 is no issue at all, it's only since I got this new camera and went balls to the wall with h.265 that Pinnacle seems to struggle a bit. However, leaving it as groups of scenes rather than nesting the timeline has certainly helped a lot and I can live with waiting for a few sec to a minute after editing as the actual exported output from Pinnacle is top notch. I agree this does seem to be a bug, I still have two old XP PCs which run S12 for capturing SD video and when scrubbing through the timeline for SD AVI it's buttery smooth, obviously much less demanding footage but the PCs are 16 years old and about 1000 times slower than my best PC, so Studio could certainly do it in the older versions, since S19 I've noticed juddery timeline scrubbing and from my point of view it's the biggest issue affecting the workflow with S25. I still like it more than Adobe and Vegas though.

    Thanks for your thoughtful reply as ever. 

  •  05-06-2022, 10:04 822084 in reply to 822080

    Re: Timeline re-render on cut

    h.265 is a really complex codec - great if your storage space is limited or you want to stream the footage but it's not a true mastering format. Prores and DNxHD files are far less compressed, and therefore much easier to edit. However, Pinnacle is a consumer/prosumer editing package and should be able to cope with h.265. Perhaps the answer is a change of render codec (it's still mpeg-2!) or proxy files.
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