Since I am very new to video and just bought Studio Ultimate 12, I don't really have a dog in this fight but...I have an observation to make.

I have never had a Pinnacle product before buying Studio U 12, so I don't know much about this company. I am not even sure what Smartsound is or does, so outside of not being able to use it, it doesn't affect me much unlike those who have bought a lot of music.

 But here's my observation for what it's worth. After reading this thread I am reluctant to purchase any add ons or extras related to this program. Apparently this Smartsound was important to a lot of users and because Pinnacle and this other company can't come to terms this leaves Pinnacle's customers out thousands of dollars. So as a new customer of Pinnacle's product it seems best not to purchase more since whatever I buy maybe discontinued. I am only one new customer, but I would think other new customers may be thinking along the same lines. Like I said I have nothing invested in Smartsound so if they do kill it I am out nothing. But to ensure I remain being out nothing I am now unlikely to purchase music or other add ons. I don't think it's wise for Pinnacle to place doubts in the minds of it's new or old customers.

It's too bad to, since I just made my first successful movie using  Studio  U 12 ( it was only 12 mins long ) but it turned out really nice, and the audience was very impressed.

 

Rake:

Since I am very new to video and just bought Studio Ultimate 12, I don't really have a dog in this fight but...I have an observation to make.

After reading this thread I am reluctant to purchase any add ons or extras related to this program. 

I don't think it's wise for Pinnacle to place doubts in the minds of it's new or old customers.

Precisely!

AVID TAKE NOTE

Rake,

 

Just to take the "mystery" out of the issue, if you have done anything with ScoreFitter in Studio, SmartSound worked pretty much the same.  The big difference is in the quality of the music and the selection, with SmartSound music having (to me) a MUCH RICHER feel to it, and to get an idea of how large the potential selection is visit www.smartsound.com

 

SmartSound also offers their own music scoring program, SonicFire Pro, which uses the same music with the main diff being it is a separate program but with MUCH MORE control.  And it can be used with virtually almost any video program that allows importing music in WAV or MP3 format.  Not quite as convenient as doing your music scoring on direct on the timeline in Studio but it works, and often the program is offered free with music disk purchase.

 

This move on Avid's part has already caused me to order another package that incorporates SmartSound, but also edits 1920x1080 17Mbps AVCHD with a bit less required computer horsepower than Studio.  I've been using Studio since a version called StudioDV, upgraded to 7, 8, 9, 10, and have been using 11.1.2

 

I was just about to order the version 12 upgrade when this announcement came out.

Interesting, this at a time of "New Thinking" on the professional scape of Avid. The answer, of course is to allow all patches of S12 to retain Smartsound functionallity. The promised Nextgen successor to the Liquid product line will set the code base, likely, for the stepdown consumer line of NLE. Many Liquid users are following this saga for the implications that might affect future product releases.

If there is to be a seperation of the NLE and SonicFire, it would benefit the companies involved to arrange a seamless plugin.

stepdown consumer line of NLE

Any clues to what that phrase means in (US) English? I tried Google, but it seems you have made it up....

Well, I have started in looking for a replacement for studio should Pinnacle carry though with there plans to remove smart sound, and in a downloaded trail version of there competitors, I pick up eight more free smartsound music scores (would have been ten but 2 of them were the same that came with Pinnacle).

So thank you Pinnacle, I'm sure this was not you intentions to start the review of you competitors.

DON'T FORGET TO VOTE OR CHECK THE SURVEY RESULTS HERE:

[VOTE HERE] 

 

 

So another working week is upon us and AVID are back in the office. Let's hope we get a result on this soon.

132 replies and over 3100 views in ten days ain't bad for a thread on any forum, I would suggest this level of interest is a measure of the importance that Studio users place on this issue.

 

Well, I have started in looking for a replacement for studio should Pinnacle carry though with there plans to remove smart sound, and in a downloaded trail version of there competitors, I pick up eight more free smartsound music scores (would have been ten but 2 of them were the same that came with Pinnacle).

So thank you Pinnacle, I'm sure this was not you intentions to start the review of you competitors

I found those too...As an FYI, thy also plug nicely into Studio (for now). Don't buy that other NLE (yet), the next version will likely be out in a few weeks.

During my market research that started early last week I also stumbled over SSS10 ... from American Sunrice to The Great Escape with (only) 2 doubles

I burned it on a CD, installed it and it's all perfectly usable in S9, S10 and S12, in SFP4.5 and in quite some other NLE brands.

 

 

I guess Pinnacle is seeing that many of its users are very loyal to brands. In this case the brand is Smartsound.

Perhaps they should be revisiting those negotiations??? With many of the competition coming out with their new versions in the very recent past or in the immediate future, the clock of user loyalty is ticking, Pinnacle.

Don't you see, Pinnacle is abandoning SmartSound in Studio because the SmartSound folks want to get paid for their efforts and Pinnacle is trying to keep cost down.  That's why you have the cheap, lower quality Scorefitter knockoff as opposed to the real deal.

In my opinion, your choices are few.  If you want to continue using integrated SmartSound on your NLE's timeline, upgrade to Avid Liquid.  However if Pinnacle were smart, they would offer a SmartSound Plug-in to Studio that would allow for the continued use of the technology.  This plug-in should be fairly priced and would cover any additional expense Pinnacle would incur.  This would allow for continued use by Studio Users.

AndyBrowne:

Don't you see, Pinnacle is abandoning SmartSound in Studio because the SmartSound folks want to get paid for their efforts and Pinnacle is trying to keep cost down. 

But that's what I don't understand.

There were only a few SmartSound tracks included with Studio.  We all had to purchase additional tracks, at which time SmartSound gets additional money.

Obviously I don't expect either Avid or SmartSound to disclose the actual monetary details of their licensing contracts, but I don't see how this could be a down-side for SmartSound.  They don't have to press any CDs, or pay for shipping, or pay for advertising - Avid (Studio) does all that in the process of producing and selling Studio.  It is like free advertising for them.  It's not like Studio hides the fact that the music came from SmartSound.

There is apparently some fee to license the SmartSound technology, but do we even know that for sure?

One might suspect SmartSound got upset when Studio included a competitor (Scorefitter) in the product.  But most of us would agree that it only serves to make SmartSound's superiority even more obvious, which should further drive more SmartSound add-on sales.  (I'm not saying Scorefitter is bad, just that SmartSound is superior.)

Regardless, I hope we hear back from the Studio (Avid) people again soon, and hopefully they can give us some good news,

JOHNBAG:

I posted on the other thread concerning Smart Sound but here is a little more of my thought process.

For my part, we, the little people will never be able to sway the big people at the top and very rarely do they change their ways, because it only ever comes down to the £ or the $ (wherever you live!)

I sincerely hope that we can change Avids minds and hope that for once the dollars and pounds don't affect them and that loyalty does. Part of owning Pinnacle software is it's ease of use and Smartsound is a major part of the useage. Take it away and everyone has to relearn the process again, which could lead to people looking at other software if they are going to learn again anyway.

AVID DON'T DO THIS TO LOYAL CUSTOMERS ! PLEASE LISTEN TO US ALL AND RESPOND QUICKLY

Remember what I said as above? Just how long does it take for Avid and Smartsound to pick up the phone send an email or meet to decide the future? Oh sorry, it always takes weeks not hours

It's all about profit. Pinnacle(Avid) thinks to get more with Scorefitter.

andre:

It's all about profit. Pinnacle(Avid) thinks to get more with Scorefitter.

Exactly what I've been thinking all time.

Dollars is what it all goes about, ... but I don't feel like licensing dollars have anything to do with it.

IMO for Pinnacle it's just a matter of replacing third party SmartSound by its own Scorefitter and make more and easier gained money.

But ... in order for those wishes to become reality they definitely have lots of work to do WRT quality of the music and the number of songs available.

For Pinnacle to have any chance here, both things are due immediatly, not next week ... 

plemmens:

andre:

It's all about profit. Pinnacle(Avid) thinks to get more with Scorefitter.

IMO for Pinnacle it's just a matter of replacing third party SmartSound by its own Scorefitter and make more and easier gained money.

Agreed.  I don't see it being a move made by SmartSound (I don't see the logic in that), but rather a money-grab by Avid.  I'm sure the plan looked good on the whiteboard... but hopefully now that we have their attention at an executive level, maybe they'll take the real world into account and change direction and plan to support SmartSmart for a long, long, long long long time.  In that case, I'd be happy to cheer for both teams, SmartSound and Scorefitter.

I don't see it being a move made by SmartSound (I don't see the logic in that),

If Avid are developing Scorefitter to compete with Smartsounds, or if that's the way smartsounds perceive the "roadmap" Jon RT mentioned, then this might not be about money in the short term. What if Smartsounds wanted an assurance from Avid that they aren't going to launch a competing, stand-alone product, or even one that could replace the Smartsounds plug-ins in other NLEs?

jjn:

I don't see it being a move made by SmartSound (I don't see the logic in that),

If Avid are developing Scorefitter to compete with Smartsounds, or if that's the way smartsounds perceive the "roadmap" Jon RT mentioned, then this might not be about money in the short term. What if Smartsounds wanted an assurance from Avid that they aren't going to launch a competing, stand-alone product, or even one that could replace the Smartsounds plug-ins in other NLEs?

Passable but unlikely, I doubt anther NLE would bye anything from a competitor, it just does not happen that way, unless they co-develop it. Smartsound is not a competitor they offer a addon and have no other competing NLE product, so they can co-exist with a lot of NLE makers, that's why I was never afraid to purchase stuff from them, should this un-thinkable thing happen, I can run to a competitor and be happy.

I've used Studio since Studio DV came a hundred years ago. After that I have ugraded with Studio 7, Studio 8, Studio 9, Studio 10 and Studio 11.  I have also bought som Smartsound discs (more than 200 $ each in Norway) and used these in my productions. All these yeaars I have been very satisfied with the music quality and Studio programs. A Studio program with no Smartsound looks more like a 100-meter sprinter without shoes. 

Through these years I've tried many other programs, buth always went back to Pinnacles Studio. The combination of Studio and Smartsound has really been the best choice to me.  So to Pinnacle/Avid:  I am very dissapointed  caused by the decision to remove the Smatsound function within Studio programs. I never thought Pinnacle would stop the ability to still use Smartsound.

 

With Liquid, one of the most requested features was integrated Smartsound. Since Liquid had just about everything that you could think of, that was one feature that was highly requested. We got it.

With Studio, initially for me, it was more video/audio tracks (gee... every other "consumer" nle had them, why not Studio?), but now, it will the the continued ability to use Smartsound from WITHIN the Studio environment.

Scorefitter? Ha. Avid/Pinnacle have done really nothing with it. 2 disks in how long? And the stuff on it... well, I have not used any of it yet. It just does not sound as "professional" as Smartsound's music tracks.

Mind you, I have Avid Liquid and will be using it for some time. But I do like the "fun" aspect of messing with Studio. And that included Smartsound. Take that out (and it makes me also wonder if Liquid's replacement will have Smartsound built in), and I will look else where. I have been editing since the Amiga/Video Toaster days. I can learn a new program if it offers what I am looking for. And Smartsound is one of those features. 

"fun" aspect of messing with Studio.

Bit patronising, doncha think Tony? - We're all Pros here. You might have to eat your words, if "Nextgen" turns-out to be "Studio on Steroids".

Very sad to hear.  Why does Pinnacle even bother to send out surveys.  Scorefitter has how many volumes currently available?    Oh yea - 2 volumes.   I wonder which one of the 2 volumes is right for me?    Oh well, we all have to deal with change, it does not mean we have to like it.

Regards,

skier 

 

 

BTW, besides those 17 SmartSound CD's I bought over the years, I also own both the Scorefitter volumes.

As has been posted by many others before, Scorefitter quality is way lower than SS quality.

I use at least one SS track in any project I do.

So far I can't remember having used a singel Scorefitter track in any project.

Whatever reason behind the decision, it is just not fair to Studio's large, longstanding user base to remove SmartSound.   

Hello,

I deleted a couple posts and once I did that some others had to go since they were comments to the ones I deleted.

Sorry, but I don't have any new information to post at this time.  Some issues take more time than others to resolve.  As I stated before, we typically do not discuss future releases due to the fact that things could change during the testing/release cycle.