BACKGROUND

I personally have switched 100% to AVCHD and tapeless opting to keep only one HDV camera around for awhile to convert all my HDV to digital files then it will go also.  We are now telling all our clients we only deliver video in DVD or BluRay even our "shoot n ship" clients.  Oh and as the latter infers, we only shoot in HD widescreen; if they want elstwise (ooouuuu, i like that word) they can get someone else.  There are many reasons why we went with this format and for now we have an edit solution in another product but we'd like to get the material in Liquid WITHOUT using the DVCProHD solution which is what we had with our HVX200A's and didn't like it.

QUESTION

So, I've read several threads about AVCHD discussions and either I'm not putting the search in right or I'm not getting it, but I want to know if anyone else has found a nice workable solution for a AVCHD in Liquid.  My solution desire would have to include the ability to link clips together so that several files would become one where needed and which will also allow an edit in Liquid without a lot of work, time, and/or loss of data, color, or image loss?

BTW, we have the free conversion software from Panasonic that converts the data disc material to DVCProHD but we don't like that format as it is not only overly space consuming but Liquid doesn't like the codec and will only work efficiently using the MPEG2 codec and if going to that then why not just use HDV right?

If anyone wants our acquisition work flow that provides a 100% back up process, just give us a shout and we'll advise thusly.  And if Smetved has a plan on how to get AVCHD into Liquid I'd love to see it especially if it was somehow able to be inclusive in Liquid instead of the converter way and/or with more control features.

Thanks in advance to those who respond thusly.

I would also be interested in using an easy solution for importing AVCHD from my Sony & JVC HD cameras into Liquid. I used the JVC for my underwater shooting.  Thanks in advance to the gurus out there...

Thanks for the reponse "ozeagle" however it's looking strongly like you and I are the only ones with this thought in mind.

For me, I'm committed.  I have converted 100% to AVCHD just to conserve the acquisition time to edit (previous 5 tv shows took us 10 to 12 hours to digest for 3 cams) while AVCHD in Final Cut (for the moment at least) takes about 40 mins transferring and about 40 mins of transcoding . . all of which is batched.  We copy over the material the moment we get in after the shoot and instead of digitizing the following day, we actually can begin the edits after batching the transcoding to ProRes422 and then go make coffee and do breakfast during the transcoding time.  However, one glitch for the moment, we are unable to do a "clean" three camera edit although because of our inexperience it appears we might have some RT setting improper and are running another set of parameters tomorrow or might have to consider RAID.

Any others who have found a conversion work flow or other suggestions we'd be pleased to hear your ideas.

I have downloaded the Vegas Studio software that came with my new Sony HD camera.  It has enabled me to acquire the Sony and JVC HD video, complete a first round of easy editing and burn a DVD.  I have then used the DVD to acquire the downgraded video in Liquid and continue serious editing.  While the output is not top HD quality it is still far better than the quality of my previous non HD videos.  The manipulation is time consumming as I use 2 sets of hardware, DVD to transport the data from one hardware to the other one, and multiple software (Vegas Studio needs to use DVD Architect Studio for buring DVDs). I hope it is just temporary and the big guys at Avid/Pinnacle will deliver us a good NextGen of high standard very soon.

Would the process be faster if you were to import the AVCHD (file based stream) into the computer and then use a converter such as the free FormatFactory to convert to MPEG2 for editing in Liquid?  I don't have access to AVCHD, so can't comment further, but I have used FormatFactory for other conversions and it works well.  Using the software converter would be faster (and cheaper) than creating a DVD first.

Vegas Studio HD (which is what I'm pretty sure you have) can export video as MPEG-2 and WMV. At high enough bit rates, these are adequate for doing a one-time conversion and then edit in Liquid. Creating a DVD limits your MPEG-2 video stream to under 9.8Mbs (8.5Mbs if using PCM audio) whereas MPEG-2 itself can go much higher. And WMV at 16Mbs VBR is excellent. And both formats edit natively in Liquid.

And just a reminder, Liquid has a preset for 1080/59.94i, which is MPEG-2 at 1920x1080.

There seems to be a feeling out there that because MPEG2HL  came before AVCHD it is somehow inferior. Dave, as you state, when run at a high enough bitrate, 25mbs or more, mpeg2 edits easily in Liquid and delivers a fine result.

TVJohn:

There seems to be a feeling out there that because MPEG2HL  came before AVCHD it is somehow inferior. Dave, as you state, when run at a high enough bitrate, 25mbs or more, mpeg2 edits easily in Liquid and delivers a fine result.

How would one get it to the MPEG2 format from AVCHD so that it could be edited in Liquid?

I have the Vegas Movies Studio Platinium V9.  I saved the ouput in *.mpg and *.ac3, and used a DVD (data) as a means to transfer the large files (video & audio) to my other hardware where I use Liquid.  I get good quality video, even for the underwater scenes.

DStone:

Vegas Studio HD (which is what I'm pretty sure you have) can export video as MPEG-2 and WMV. At high enough bit rates, these are adequate for doing a one-time conversion and then edit in Liquid. Creating a DVD limits your MPEG-2 video stream to under 9.8Mbs (8.5Mbs if using PCM audio) whereas MPEG-2 itself can go much higher. And WMV at 16Mbs VBR is excellent. And both formats edit natively in Liquid.

Dave did you mean "me" having Sony Vegas?  I don't have it.  I thought about it back when we were shopping for what to do previously but for me I don't have Vegas.

Actually I was referring to ozeagle.

I don't have any AVCHD file to try it out but ffdshow should decode it and Liquid is able to use ffdshow decoders.

Download here:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/ffdshow/

Anybody interested to try it out and let us know?

Priit

priitp:

I don't have any AVCHD file to try it out but ffdshow should decode it and Liquid is able to use ffdshow decoders.

Download here:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/ffdshow/

Anybody interested to try it out and let us know?  Priit

I will so long as there is aren't any virsuses or issues like that.

I will have to do this trial on Monday late as we found that the dropped frames issue we were finding in FC was merely viewing and not in the output and by clicking "Do Not Warn" the mini stops and dialog box stopped.  Also, we ran another suggested test and found that by setting the transcoder in advance to DV Anamorphic FC transcodes it in advance and quite fast I might add and the image is amazing excellent and since this is an SD DV output, we're going to have to catch up the work we're behind and the will come back and test this Monday evening.

I still want to have the capacity for AVCHD in Liquid since we have the license and we have several people who come in and do this work with us routinely.  Will post tomorrow night the results accordingly if I can find how to get the AVCHD files on the only PC in our studio that isn't infected with this "pbudsara.exe" virus.  Geez, what a nightmare. We got this virus on one machine and it instantly dumped on the network and 5 out of our 6 PC's got it and neither AVG nor Avast can fix it.  AVG can't even see it and Avast can't remove it.  Anyone know how to do this, we'd really appreciate it as we have been stalled three days now working on it.  Guess it's brand new.  Wait till ya get it.  A NIGHTMARE!

priitp:

I don't have any AVCHD file to try it out but ffdshow should decode it and Liquid is able to use ffdshow decoders.  Download here:  http://sourceforge.net/projects/ffdshow/  Anybody interested to try it out and let us know?   Priit

Wow.  This is some tool but how on earth to use it?  Looks like it will launch a rocket if needed to do so BUT how to do so ??  Yikes!

Sorry, but Liquid won't use ffdshow. I've already tried.

DStone:

Sorry, but Liquid won't use ffdshow. I've already tried.

What's that tool do Dave?  Also, any idea what would be a fast conversion tool to get AVCHD converted to HDV or MPEG quickly and excellent quality for Liquid to handle?

Can anybody share a short AVCHD file for testing purposes?

Thanks
Priit

drdimento:

What's that tool do Dave?  Also, any idea what would be a fast conversion tool to get AVCHD converted to HDV or MPEG quickly and excellent quality for Liquid to handle?

Ffdshow is a DirectShow filter (and VFW CODEC) that implements a large number of decoders. Using ffdshow it's possible to load a single filter or CODEC (ffdshow) and play back a lot of different types of video. Unfortunately, Liquid won't use any particular filter or CODEC installed on your system, only specific ones.

There are a number of tools out there for converting AVCHD, some free and some commercial. But since I don't use AVCHD myself, I've not evaluated them so I really can't say which ones are both good and fast.

drdimento:

 Also, any idea what would be a fast conversion tool to get AVCHD converted to HDV or MPEG quickly and excellent quality for Liquid to handle?

Have you tried a conversion tool such as the free FormatFactory or Super?  I don't have access to AVCHD, but have heard that these conversions work for editing in Studio and Liquid.  Let us know the outcome if you decide to try this route.

priitp:

Can anybody share a short AVCHD file for testing purposes?Thanks,  Priit

Going to see 2012 and will upload some material after that if we make it back alive.  Sorry about the delay.

I have a couple of AVCHD cameras and I am using Studio 14 to convert to 30mb MPEG2.

I bring all the clips for a project into S14 and drop them on a timeline with slates between each one. I export as 30mb VBR MPEG and import into liquid.
 

OK.  Got back from the movie and am in the process of uploading the folder from the camera as a zip file to ease in the downloading process.  The zip file is call AVCHD and the contents are the exact contents that are on the SDHC card from this test clip for this thread.  Sorry about using FC as an illustration but wanted to show how FCP does it and bare in mind that my objective is to get the AVCHD material into a format that I can edit in Liquid since A) I have several in house Liquid users; B) I am a big fan of AVCHD and Liquid; and; C) I have too much work behind while learning FCP and need to get some of these projects (over 20 now) into Liquid.

Thanks again for the help to all.

www.elink123.net/avchd

NOTE:  193Mb file (sorry about the size but thought it would be more helpful to have something with a little size to it in order to be meaningful for some kind of a good test)

If the above is not working yet, simply check back it was just starting to upload at this posting.

cmedico:

I have a couple of AVCHD cameras and I am using Studio 14 to convert to 30mb MPEG2.  I bring all the clips for a project into S14 and drop them on a timeline with slates between each one. I export as 30mb VBR MPEG and import into liquid.

What do you mean put slates between them?  Also, how long does it take for them to export?  If possible an example like 5 mins video = 1 min export time or ???