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Movie plays beyond end of chapter briefly before returning to menu

Last post 10-12-2021, 3:28 by saby. 87 replies.
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  •  03-15-2015, 10:22 668618 in reply to 668617

    Re: Movie plays beyond end of chapter briefly before returning to menu

    culpanr:

    saby:
    Test this project. You won't see the bug anymore
    I have tested - and can still see the unwanted "flash" of the "Title 2" if I play the disc using Windows Media Player, but not if I play with VLC Player (seems to return to the menu earlier and hides the problem)!

    I use Power DVD for disks playback.

  •  03-15-2015, 10:59 668620 in reply to 668617

    Re: Movie plays beyond end of chapter briefly before returning to menu

    culpanr:

    from Saby's project they should be exactly 8 seconds each and I get 8 seconds 14 frames and 8 seconds 17 frames.

    Not exactly. They should be 8 seconds 8 frames for title 1 and 8 seconds for title 2. Total 16 seconds 8 frames.

    There is definitely a mess at chapter point between Title 1 and Title 2 because 8s14 + 8s17 can't be 16s8 in total, unless I forgot my Maths.

  •  03-15-2015, 15:27 668658 in reply to 668620

    Re: Movie plays beyond end of chapter briefly before returning to menu

    Hi Guys,  Could be operator error on my part but it looks ... in saby1.disk.axp    The 1st title is 00:00:08.08    2nd is .00     Sorry if I just missed something though.

    Mark

     

  •  03-15-2015, 15:38 668660 in reply to 668658

    Re: Movie plays beyond end of chapter briefly before returning to menu

    That's exactly my previous statement. Wink 

    saby:
    culpanr:

    from Saby's project they should be exactly 8 seconds each and I get 8 seconds 14 frames and 8 seconds 17 frames.

    Not exactly. They should be 8 seconds 8 frames for title 1 and 8 seconds for title 2. Total 16 seconds 8 frames.


  •  03-15-2015, 16:12 668665 in reply to 668660

    Re: Movie plays beyond end of chapter briefly before returning to menu

    Sorry ... my bad .  It's early here... need more coffee.

    Mark

     

  •  03-15-2015, 22:25 668713 in reply to 668665

    Re: Movie plays beyond end of chapter briefly before returning to menu

    MarkCIA:
    Sorry ... my bad .  It's early here... need more coffee.
    Same operator error here too Embarrassed I probably saw the second title as being 8 seconds exactly and assumed the first one was too (and didn't read the numbers carefully enough).

    The two running time figures I quoted were those reported by PgcEdit after opening the DVD's VIDEO_TS folder and examining the two DVD-titles (shown in PgcEdit as TTN 1 and TTN 2).

    I have now had a chance to try a test project like Saby's one (but with the two full-screen titles both exactly 8 seconds long) in all of the Pinnacle Studio versions I have installed:

    Pinnacle Studio 9 Plus (9.4.3)
    Compilation was "perfect" in that both DVD-titles were reported by PgcEdit to be exactly 8 seconds, and no unwanted "flash" of the second movie was observed when playing the disc/image in WMP.

    Pinnacle Studio 12 Ultimate (12.1.3.6605)
    The first "movie" was truncated by one frame (so became 7 seconds 24 frames). If an explicit "return to menu" was added at the end of the second movie, this was also truncated, but if relying instead upon an implied (invisible) "return to menu" at the end of the project, the second movie was not truncated (evidence of truncation was seen both in the frame count while Studio was rendering, and in the information about the DVD-titles reported by PgcEdit). No unwanted "flash" of the second movie was seen when playing the disc/image in WMP.

    Pinnacle Studio 14 Ultimate Collection (14.0.0.7255)
    Behaviour was identical to PS12 Ultimate. But note that in order to work around issues with creation of double-layer discs (problem never fixed by an official patch) I am using the contents of PS12's PCLE.DiscAPI folder in PS14.

    Avid Studio (1.1.0.2887)
    Upon opening the VIDEO_TS folder in PgcEdit, it reported erroneous or missing time map tables in VTS 1 and rebuilt them. The movie lengths (DVD-title lengths reported by PgcEdit) were incorrect; the first movie was reported as being as two frames too long (8 seconds 2 frames), and the second "movie" was two frames too short (7 seconds 23 frames). And that unwanted brief "flash" of the second movie was seen when playing the disc/image in WMP.

    Pinnacle Studio 16 Ultimate (16.1.0.115)
    Behaviour was almost identical to Avid Studio (first movie two frames "long", second movie two frames "short" - but PgcEdit reported no errors in the time map tables in VTS 1). Unwanted "flash" of second movie seen when disc/image played in WMP.

    Pinnacle Studio 18 Ultimate 64 bit (18.1.0.602)
    The "frame count" shown in PS18's Exporter suggested that PS18 had truncated the project by one frame (showed 399 frames being exported while rendering instead of 400). When the VIDEO_TS folder was opened in PgcEdit, it reported the first "movie" as being two frames too long (8 seconds 2 frames), but the second "movie was a whole second too long (9 seconds 0 frames)! And the unwanted "flash" of the second movie was seen when playing the disc/image in WMP.


    Regards,
    Richard

  •  03-16-2015, 17:51 668826 in reply to 668713

    Re: Movie plays beyond end of chapter briefly before returning to menu

    Hi Richard,  Nice work.  It's nice to see someone pursuing this.  I got ahold of a Win7 machine with Media Player.  I see / understand what you mean by the "flash" of the unwanted chapter.  Until I got the WMP I was viewing a burned DVD on TV.  On TV I see at least 2 seconds of unwanted chapter.  Using 2 titles at 4 seconds each.

    I did a some testing on what happens by moving the position of the M1 markers with respect to the chapter markers and also the very last M1.

    Previously I said the "last chapter always worked".  That's not exactly true.  Viewing the DVD on TV, the last chapter is "displayed" properly but the 2nd title duration is longer than it should be.  IE title duration should be 4 seconds but is displayed aprox. 6 seconds.

    Testing did not really result in much.  I got the "best results" (but still not correct) by placing the M1 markers 1 frame left of the chapter markers.

    For each test:

    • 8 chapters
    • 2 titles per chapter.  Each title is 4 seconds
    • 3 menu pages. (3 chpt - 3 chpt - 2 chpt)
    • Export DVD Best Quality
    • Reprocessing = Render Completely Before Export
    • Always Re-Encode Entire Movie = box checked

    Your testing and using PgcEdit and seeing actual numbers is great. I'm just counting the chapter duration and how it's displayed on TV and with WMP.  If your interested in the full results.  I'll post.

    Thanks for your work

    Mark

  •  03-16-2015, 18:32 668828 in reply to 668826

    Re: Movie plays beyond end of chapter briefly before returning to menu

    MarkCIA:
    I got ahold of a Win7 machine with Media Player.  I see / understand what you mean by the "flash" of the unwanted chapter.  Until I got the WMP I was viewing a burned DVD on TV.  On TV I see at least 2 seconds of unwanted chapter.  Using 2 titles at 4 seconds each.
    According to the amount of "unwanted" material that Studio marks as being in the first movie, there should only be a "flash" of up to about 1/2 second before the return. But I am guessing that the DVD player may "hold" the last frame it played from that chapter while it decides that it needs to go back to the menu and actually finds it on the disc... To test whether that guess is right, one could put some moving content right at the beginning of the second movie and see if that plays in full for those 2 seconds or plays just the first few frames and then "freezes" while the DVD player finds the menu.

    BTW I'm still having a poke at this issue because I used to work in software testing and hate elusive bugs!

    Regards,
    Richard

  •  03-16-2015, 18:49 668830 in reply to 668828

    Re: Movie plays beyond end of chapter briefly before returning to menu

    OK I'll give that  shot and see what happens.

    funny ... a software guy and a hardware guy communicating ....... nicely.

    Thanks

    Mark

     

  •  03-16-2015, 19:54 668836 in reply to 668828

    Re: Movie plays beyond end of chapter briefly before returning to menu

    Richard,  Does 24 or 30 fps come into play here somewhere?  
  •  03-16-2015, 20:58 668849 in reply to 668836

    Re: Movie plays beyond end of chapter briefly before returning to menu

    MarkCIA:
    Richard,  Does 24 or 30 fps come into play here somewhere?  
    Don't believe so; although all of my DVDs are PAL (25fps), I believe that the issue does affect NTSC discs too. And I just tried one with two 8-second titles and got the "flash" issue when I played the disc image in WMP.

    From what I have seen in my experiments so far:

    • There may be scenarios when Studio does not export an MPEG-2 file of the correct length, or it has a strange or corrupted structure
    • Studio seems to be misreading the length of some MPEG-2 files when they are imported (I can export files of exactly 10 seconds and Studio thinks they are 9 seconds 16 frames when imported). But I'm still struggling with this one; I cannot get the various tools I have tried using to display the file properties all to agree, so I still don't know whether the issue is because of "bad" exported files or because of some issue when the files are  imported. (An issue when identifying the length of a file when imported might conceivably affect Studio when it processes its own render files as it builds the DVD image)...

    So currently I am trying all of the other video editing programs I have (that are capable of exporting an MPEG-2 file) in the hope that I can find one that creates a perfect "golden sample" file that all of the tools agree has the same properties, And, then, if I import that one into Studio and it says something different, then I know the issue is Studio and not the file...

    Regards,
    Richard

  •  03-16-2015, 22:17 668858 in reply to 668849

    Re: Movie plays beyond end of chapter briefly before returning to menu

    To test whether that guess is right, one could put some moving content right at the beginning of the second movie and see if that plays in full for those 2 seconds or plays just the first few frames and then "freezes" while the DVD player finds the menu.

    The reason I ask about the 24/30 fps is.  When I started adding video to my "Titles Only" project it keep things at 24fps.  If I add titles to a timeline that already has video (I'm using mpg from vcr) it changes the title 24 fps to 30fps.  I didn't know if that would matter anywhere.

    I burned a disk with 4 seconds of moving video.  Testing your suggestion.

    • chpt 1  | 4s title | 4s title |
    • chpt 2                             | 4s video | 4s title |
    • chpt 3                                                           |4s video | 4s title |
    • and so on ... total 8 chapters

    WMP - At the end of chapters 1 - 7 it plays the next chapter video for about a second.  Video continues to "move" until it returns to menu.    Chapter 8 plays the video then plays the end title looks like 5s (should be 4s).

    TV - DVD  At the end of chapters 1 - 7 it plays the next chapter video about 1s (moving) and then freezes about 1s before returning to menu.

    So it looks like you were correct.  The DVD was thinking.

  •  03-16-2015, 23:19 668866 in reply to 668858

    Re: Movie plays beyond end of chapter briefly before returning to menu

    Attachment: Project settings.jpg

    MarkCIA:
    The reason I ask about the 24/30 fps is.  When I started adding video to my "Titles Only" project it keep things at 24fps.  If I add titles to a timeline that already has video (I'm using mpg from vcr) it changes the title 24 fps to 30fps.  I didn't know if that would matter anywhere.
    If you are always going to play your discs on an NTSC TV set, you could stop Studio from choosing that (IMO silly) default of 24fps by going into the "control panel" and in the "Project Settings" page unticking the box for "Detect format from first clip". Then the new project will always have the same format regardless of whether you add videos or photos first (In my case I choose "PAL Widescreen" as the default for new projects - you would choose "NTSC Widescreen"

    And if you want something different, the project format can be changed freely ("gear wheel" button above the timeline)

    Regards,
    Richard


  •  03-16-2015, 23:38 668870 in reply to 668866

    Re: Movie plays beyond end of chapter briefly before returning to menu

    Thanks for the tip.  I have a lot of 4:3 video to do.  I'm assuming that if I output at "Widescreen it will be distorted.  Correct?   Also There's not a way in Studio to eliminate the 2 white bars on left and right of dvd video displayed on TV.  I don't thinks so.  Aside from adjusting the TV aspect.

  •  03-16-2015, 23:47 668873 in reply to 668870

    Re: Movie plays beyond end of chapter briefly before returning to menu

    Then, in the 1st setting (aspect ratio) select Standard 4:3 instead of Widescreen 16:9.

    To eliminate lateral bars you can double-click a clip and play with Corrections > Adjustments.

  •  03-17-2015, 0:22 668877 in reply to 668873

    Re: Movie plays beyond end of chapter briefly before returning to menu

    saby:

    Then, in the 1st setting (aspect ratio) select Standard 4:3 instead of Widescreen 16:9.

    To eliminate lateral bars you can double-click a clip and play with Corrections > Adjustments.

    If you create a completely 4:3 project and then play on a widescreen DVD player/TV, the DVD player will probably want to pillarbox it with black bars at the sides... If you stay with a widescreen 16:9 project you can control whether or not to pillarbox on a scene-by-scene basis:

    • Simply leave the 4:3 video as-is, pillarboxed in the middle of the 16:9 frame with black bars each side
    • Stretch the image horizontally to fill the frame (you can probably get away with this with subjects that don't include any objects or people that should have clearly-defined proportions)
    • Enlarge the picture to fill the frame and lose a bit out of the top/bottom (tip: use one of the 2D editor effects instead of an aspect ratio correction and you can be selective about which part(s) you lose out of the top/bottom)

    You can explore all of those options via the media editor (e.g. Corrections | Adjustments) or by right-clicking a clip and playing with the fit/fill options in the pop-up menu.

    HTH
    Richard

  •  03-17-2015, 0:54 668879 in reply to 668877

    Re: Movie plays beyond end of chapter briefly before returning to menu

    I don't mind the 4:3 right now. That's actually what I want.   Doing old family video's.  Mostly people so I want the correct proportions.  So far, ..  the TV displays white bars L & R.  Too bright.  If I can change the bars to black I'd be a happy camper.  I looked at some of the options but haven't found anything that looks like change bars to black/white.  Did I miss something?

    Thanks, Mark

  •  03-17-2015, 1:16 668880 in reply to 668879

    Re: Movie plays beyond end of chapter briefly before returning to menu

    MarkCIA:

    I don't mind the 4:3 right now. That's actually what I want.   Doing old family video's.  Mostly people so I want the correct proportions.  So far, ..  the TV displays white bars L & R.  Too bright.  If I can change the bars to black I'd be a happy camper.  I looked at some of the options but haven't found anything that looks like change bars to black/white.  Did I miss something?

    If I simply drag 4:3 video out of the library and drop onto a 16:9 project timeline, my video gets automatically pillarboxed with black each side (that black is generated because there is nothing else on any other tracks that could show up in that space). (See attached pic)

    Do you have anything else "underneath" that video (on a lower timeline track) that might be showing up at the sides of the video? Are there any effects applied to the video (e.g. 2D Editor, Pan&Zoom, etc.? (Sometimes, swapping the order of effects may help...).

    Regards,
    Richard


  •  03-17-2015, 1:38 668881 in reply to 668880

    Re: Movie plays beyond end of chapter briefly before returning to menu

    Currently I have ..Settings > CP > Proj Setting > Set to NTSC Standard.   Sounds like I need to change that to NTSC Widescreen ... for starters.   That keeps my 4:3 video ratio proportions in line and gives me black bars.    Correct?

    Then ... How do I set the video in the "Export" to DVD ?  In the advanced tab there is an option in there ?

    Thanks

    Mark

     

  •  03-17-2015, 7:34 668886 in reply to 668881

    Re: Movie plays beyond end of chapter briefly before returning to menu

    Guys,

    We've been way too far from the original topic of this thread now.

    Mark, would you open a new thread, please ?

  •  03-17-2015, 13:48 668930 in reply to 668886

    Re: Movie plays beyond end of chapter briefly before returning to menu

    Hi saby,

    Yeah actually I was thinking the same thing.  This thread had good flow and thoughts going.  If you want to delete the off topic posts of mine.  Fine with me.  Including this one.

    Thanks, Mark

  •  03-17-2015, 14:00 668932 in reply to 668930

    Re: Movie plays beyond end of chapter briefly before returning to menu

    The real "issue" with threads wandering off-topic and ending up containing several discussions about unrelated problems is that information can easily become buried (and if any forum moderators, Pinnacle staff, etc. did happen to be skimming through the postings looking for interesting stuff that needed attention, they could easily miss it).

    So, if you did want to collect more comments, suggestions etc. on how best to put old 4:3 material into 16:9 projects, it would be worth starting a new thread for that topic...

    Regards,
    Richard

  •  03-17-2015, 15:05 668941 in reply to 668932

    Re: Movie plays beyond end of chapter briefly before returning to menu

    Mark,

    Unless you consider this off-topic discussion closed I suggest too that you open a new thread. I'm not sure you got all the answers to all your questions about 4:3, 16:9, letterboxing and pillarboxing.

  •  03-17-2015, 17:53 668956 in reply to 668941

    Re: Movie plays beyond end of chapter briefly before returning to menu

    Yes, I understand.  I tried to delete but it won't let me.  If you can clean it up that would be great.  Won't happen again.  Sorry.

    I was able to burn an acceptable disk with titles.  A work around using the same color for the end titles and start titles, using page fads and delaying the enter motion on the start titles.

    Hopefully Pinnacle will notice the work Richard is doing.  Thanks Richard.

    Mark

  •  03-17-2015, 17:58 668957 in reply to 668956

    Re: Movie plays beyond end of chapter briefly before returning to menu

    It's not a big deal, don't worry. There's no need to delete anything.
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