rickd:

[

 ... did you know that you can open a project made in S12 that contains Smartsounds tracks and edit  in S14? audio stays intact ... humm ...

Maybe that's your answer.  Start a project in S 12, add the SmartSound and put the finishing touches on it in S 14.  However, the niggle in the back of the head keeps saying "just what is it in S 14 that makes it so indispensable?".  I have decided that for now I will not upgrade to S 14, but I am willing to be convinced if someone can point out this "indispensable" factor.

Otherwise, as TVJohn says, if you are working under a deadline, it's better to stick with what you know.

rickd:

 Well , being a video rookie, im not sure I want to try to figure out another program along with studio, but I'll look at it tonight as soon as im done trying to break S14 ... did you know that you can open a project made in S12 that contains Smartsounds tracks and edit  in S14? audio stays intact ... humm ...

I guess once a SmartSound piece is in the project, it's just another audio element, so I would hope that S14 could cope with that. 

patndave:

mcperry:

I just downloaded the User Manual for S14 - only 427 pages

On page 304 is the following:

Using SmartSound®

If you have installed songs in SmartSound format on
your computer, these too will be available for use in the
Background music tool. To switch between your
ScoreFitter and SmartSound song collections, make the
appropriate choice on the Source dropdown list at the
top of the tool window.

 And no mention of Soundstage anywhere!

Can a Pinnacle rep explain this please?

Look HERE.

"There were a couple of errors in some very early releases of the Studio 14 Help File and Manual that incorrectly discussed using SmartSound in Studio 14.  These errors have been identified and corrected."

If the errors have been corrected as the FAQ states, why is the Manual that I downloaded TODAY still incorrect?   That is very misleading behaviour from Pinnacle

VE7AXO:

In other words, the SF5 program is free.  It's not exactly a plug-in, but you can do more with it than with QuickTracks in Studio 12.  You can import your video into SF5 and get it the right length and beat before re-importing into Studio.  Two extra steps, but it works and shouldn't keep you from upgrading to Studio 14.

It's "two extra steps" if you don't change the duration of your musical segment.

My problem is that I love to tweak the duration of various segments.  If I'm working on a slide show, for example, I might start with a standard length of 4 seconds per picture, so 10 images will last 40 seconds.  After I add the music, the "mood" starts to take shape, and I will lengthen one, shorten another (and tweak the plan/zoom), and my 40 seconds will be 30 or 50 or 42 or 37.  I might have a dozen segments, each with their own music.

So "two extra steps" - remember they are "steps", not just mouse clicks - really start to add up.  More importantly, I find it interrupts the creative process.

I'm not saying I will never upgrade, but it's a very large check mark in the "con" column for me.  There will have to be a lot of substantiated fixes and improvements (verified by this group) in order to tempt me to upgrade (in addition to the new add-ons).

In the classic mode of editing, the film is shot,

the clips are storyboarded,

Rough cutting is done.

Music is developed after discussion with the director.

Music is then fit to the scene.

The director reviews the entire production and makes minor revisions.

When you are all over the place, often the result is a corrupted project or something gets "broken" on the timeline.

At some point, it is expected that an editor will more to more capable applications that specialize in a particular task. 

True or false: the Sound Stage in Studio 14 is identical to Scorefitter in Studio 12, but shaded pink or gray instead of yellow.

???

Or might there be some vacant slot to install Sibelius, M-Audio, Sonic Fire, Garage Band, or even Smartsound.

Will Studio 14 allow one to pull MID files directly to an audio track?  That is impossible with prior versions.  Some people loathe MID sounds, but in many cases a soft percussion or synth sound is all one needs.  If one could create and modify such effects with a plug-in it would indeed be something Avid could "monetize."  I presume AMC supports an interface with a music composition software.

justaviking:

I might start with a standard length of 4 seconds per picture, so 10 images will last 40 seconds.  After I add the music, the "mood" starts to take shape, and I will lengthen one, shorten another (and tweak the plan/zoom), and my 40 seconds will be 30 or 50 or 42 or 37.  I might have a dozen segments, each with their own music.

So "two extra steps" - remember they are "steps", not just mouse clicks - really start to add up.  More importantly, I find it interrupts the creative process.

I don't think this is a very different work flow from what you would need to do with the music adjustments inside Studio 12.  The Two Steps that I was referring to was the fact that you would import the video into Sonicfire Pro and the second step is to bring it back into Studio with the SmartSound track added.  With a plug-in the same thing happens, but it's done seamlessly from within Studio.  The additional advantage of using Sonicfire Pro 5 is the new MoodMapping music which is not available in Quicktracks.

VE7AXO:

I don't think this is a very different work flow from what you would need to do with the music adjustments inside Studio 12.  The Two Steps that I was referring to was the fact that you would import the video into Sonicfire Pro and the second step is to bring it back into Studio with the SmartSound track added.  With a plug-in the same thing happens, but it's done seamlessly from within Studio.  The additional advantage of using Sonicfire Pro 5 is the new MoodMapping music which is not available in Quicktracks.

I'm not trying to pick a fight or be disagreeable, but even a plug-in that's launched seamlessly is still different (a step down) from the easy, magical behavior of simply dragging on your timeline to change the length of a clip, and having the music adjust itself.

If you edit with the two-software approach, how much rendering will you have to do, and how long will that take, if you want to view your video in Sonicfire Pro?  I guess you could take note of the change in lenght, such as 2-seconds, 13 frames longer than before, and then manually make that change in Sonicfire without bothering with the video.  The new "selective rendering" feature in S14 is pretty cool, so you don't have to render the entire project, but you still might be looking at several minutes of rendering to export your modified section, just so you can adjust the audio on Sonicfire Pro, after which you go back to Studio, delete the old track, and replace the new track.

Even if the "delete and replace" was automated, they key behavior to preserve (or re-introduce) is the automated regeneration of a music clip when something changes on the timeline.

Yes, it is my understanding too that in a professional, movie editing approach, they traditionally edit the video and then get to work on finalizing the score.  You may have some rough cuts of each prior to that, but it's more of a serial process, rather than working in parallel.  But I'm not usually editing a 2-hour movie, and I'm certainly not hiring an orchestra.

I would miss the old freedom, flexibility, and convenience.  I like having my video and audio together while I work.  Not only together, but actually linked.

If there were an "advanced plug-in" that linked to the advanced mood-mapping in Sonicfire, and also seamlessly adjusted the track length in Studio as it does to day, I'd pay a reasonable fee for that.  In fact, I'd very likely consider paying for that as an upgrade so I could use the mood-mapping capability from within Studio.

So, here's my message to SmartSound:

• I suggest they offer a "simple" free plug-in to S14 that provide the current "quicktracks" functionality.
  That will provide a wonderful sales opportunity for existing AND NEW Studio customers to purchase more SmartSound CDs.
• Then offer an advanced for-sale plug-in for Studio that allows you to do mood-mapping and use their best CDs
  The sale of the plug-in can help defray the cost of development, but mostly will encourage more people to buy the more expensive CDs.

I wish I knew more about the technical hurdles involved, and the number of potential sales involved.  I want to believe the SmartSound managers aren't stupid, and that they are making a sound (ha, a pun) business decision.  But I don't like it.

Oh well.  Who knows, maybe I'll fall further in love with my Sonicfire Pro v5 and start using it more.

In Sonicfire Pro you CAN view the video and adjust the length of the sound track, the same as in Quicktracks.  I am not "picking a fight" or being "disagreeable", just trying to show a way to use your existing Quicktracks collection with Studio 14.  If it is too onerous a work flow, by all means stay with S 12 and keep using SmartSound's tracks as before.  I myself, am NOT upgrading to S 14 at this time as I don't see any real advantage to spend the money, but I also plan to stay with my current work flow of using Sonicfire Pro as described above.

And I agree that it would be great if SmartSound would make a plug-in for S 14, but that doesn't sound as if it will happen.  Avid seems to be focused on getting us to use Scorefitter.

Questions: 

The working video clip (with no SOUND, I believe) when is exported to Sonicfire Pro: It has to be like an .avi or a .stx file, or anything else?  (will be easy as a Studio file)

When the video clip now with SOUND is back to Studio (as a new file I believe): What will be used; the whole clip NEW SOUND and Video or only the New Sound portion?

Thank you

VE7AXO:

In Sonicfire Pro you CAN view the video and adjust the length of the sound track, the same as in Quicktracks.  I am not "picking a fight" or being "disagreeable", just trying to show a way to use your existing Quicktracks collection with Studio 14.  If it is too onerous a work flow, by all means stay with S 12 and keep using SmartSound's tracks as before.  I myself, am NOT upgrading to S 14 at this time as I don't see any real advantage to spend the money, but I also plan to stay with my current work flow of using Sonicfire Pro as described above.

And I agree that it would be great if SmartSound would make a plug-in for S 14, but that doesn't sound as if it will happen.  Avid seems to be focused on getting us to use Scorefitter.

First, I want you to know I didn't feel you were picking a fight,   I was just being proactive for how my comments might be perceived.  It is difficult sometimes where you're not having a conversation face-to-face.   

"In Sonicfire Pro you CAN view the video and adjust the length of the sound track, the same as in Quicktracks."  Yes, and that's fine if you don't change your video length.  If you do all the video (visual) editing first, and are done with it, and then you go to Sonicfire to edit the audio, that's cool.  But if you add the audio, and say, "Gee, this would be a lot better if I added a bit of slow-motion on this romantic scene, thus making the clip last 5 seconds longer (or 3 seconds, or six seconds, I'm not sure)," then you go back and forth between the applications.

With the pre-S14 functionality, you could simply apply a speed effect to the video, the clip lengthens, the SmartSound music track adjusts to fit, and you preview it live without any bouncing between applications.  It's just so awesome!!!  You also have any other audio items, such as sound effects, right there in the same place.  I hate to see us regress and lose that wonderful functionality.

Well, when all is said and done, these companies have chosen to go in different directions, that is their choice as independent businesses. If the sales to Studio Users is (was) at a high volume, there would be a compelling reason for SonicFire to work something out.

Perhaps if the sales of Studio 14 are robust enough, SF may reconsider. I do not think the comments of 50, or 500 would turn the tide.

On the other side, if Pinnacle believes that sales of Studio 14 are suffering due to no Smartsound inclusion, they may move. 

How many people have bought S14 at this point in time and how many are considering buying S14?

From reading between the lines S14 will not have a big take up, only my thoughts.....

sleas:

I have bought, downloaded and installed Studio 14.  I really like what I have seen so far.  They added the ability to create some complex effects but have kept the interface simple.  For a consumer video editing program, it offers alot of bang for the buck.  I was throwing AVCHD clips at it last night and it barely "broke a sweat".

<deliberately contentious mode ON>

Anyone who has little or no investment in Smartsounds discs, or has no time for automatically generated music (as in it all sounds like rubbish) will be somewhat bored by the attention this thread is generating. It's a relatively minor part of the rewrite that we should have been expecting anyway.

Well I'll wait another 20 minutes, but that's it.

(Howard Jarvis, still waiting in the cab at LAX, $4000.00 on the meter)

<deliberately contentious mode OFF>

jjn:

sleas:

I have bought, downloaded and installed Studio 14.  I really like what I have seen so far.  They added the ability to create some complex effects but have kept the interface simple.  For a consumer video editing program, it offers alot of bang for the buck.  I was throwing AVCHD clips at it last night and it barely "broke a sweat".

That's an off topic post - but I can see why you resorted to posting it to this thread....

<deliberately contentious mode ON>

Anyone who has little or no investment in Smartsounds discs, or has no time for automatically generated music (as in it all sounds like rubbish) will be somewhat bored by the attention this thread is generating. It's a relatively minor part of the rewrite that we should have been expecting anyway.

I may have said this before, but sometimes people on this forum remind of one of the last scenes in "Airplane" where the old guy who has been waiting in the cab for most of the movie says...

Well I'll wait another 20 minutes, but that's it.

(Howard Jarvis, still waiting in the cab at LAX, $4000.00 on the meter)

<deliberately contentious mode OFF>

This time though Jeff it appears many have left the cab and are on their way to the car lot!

rocket:

I tried adding Smartsound in S12. saving project. bringing it up in s14 and it did not work, I had no sound. what is the trick?

 All I did was open a project that I had made 2 weeks ago (daughters wedding) with 14, and the track played, but I did have to wait a bit before it would play I'll try on some other stuff that has Smartsounds in them and report back ...

Ok just made a quickie project in S12, 36 sec long with video, a title at the end and Tennessee Rain from the basic SS library, saved and opened it in 14, and the song played just fine ... but ... my first attempt failed, but I had only 15 sec's of video that time ... but I can not reopen it in 12 any longer ... that not good ...

I think for me, I'll continue using 12  for most everything and If I need to add some of the flashy stuff, I'll finish it with 14  ..

My Smartsounds collection cost me about $300 and are as follows:

1. Cinematic Excellence
2. Sentimental
3. Vacation, Movie Music
4. Sound Palette 5, Logos & Stingers
5. 1 or 2 more that I can't locate, right now

I wish that I could use them in S14 Ultimate Collection.  If not, its a heck-of-a-waste.  Geeezzzzzz !!!! 

 Shame on Pinnacle and Smartsounds producer.

fidel47:

Questions: 

The working video clip (with no SOUND, I believe) when is exported to Sonicfire Pro: It has to be like an .avi or a .stx file, or anything else?  (will be easy as a Studio file)

When the video clip now with SOUND is back to Studio (as a new file I believe): What will be used; the whole clip NEW SOUND and Video or only the New Sound portion?

Thank you

My SonicFire doesn't touch the movie file.  SonicFire exports a music file, created from the SmartSound library, which is then incorporporated into Studio.

jjn:

sleas:

I have bought, downloaded and installed Studio 14.  I really like what I have seen so far.  They added the ability to create some complex effects but have kept the interface simple.  For a consumer video editing program, it offers alot of bang for the buck.  I was throwing AVCHD clips at it last night and it barely "broke a sweat".

That's an off topic post - but I can see why you resorted to posting it to this thread....

<deliberately contentious mode ON>

Anyone who has little or no investment in Smartsounds discs, or has no time for automatically generated music (as in it all sounds like rubbish) will be somewhat bored by the attention this thread is generating. It's a relatively minor part of the rewrite that we should have been expecting anyway.

I may have said this before, but sometimes people on this forum remind of one of the last scenes in "Airplane" where the old guy who has been waiting in the cab for most of the movie says...

Well I'll wait another 20 minutes, but that's it.

(Howard Jarvis, still waiting in the cab at LAX, $4000.00 on the meter)

<deliberately contentious mode OFF>

I was responding to Yorkie's post about the low uptake of Studio 14.  Sorry it offended you.