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MC Impressions

Last post 03-07-2012, 10:32 by simonbaker. 749 replies.
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  •  03-10-2010, 2:46 386222 in reply to 386186

    Re: MC Impressions

    That I guess depends on what you're doing. I've played with the trial for about a week and a 1/2 now and yes it is a reasonably powerful program. What really sticks out (and is a welcomed breath of fresh air) is the incredibly smooth preview playback. Even with avchd (converted over). Vegas preview works on the old style VFW (video for windows) and can be just horrid at times. But what I find irritating to no end is that I have to convert EVERYTHING I want to bring into MC. That's taking a lot of time. With other programs (PP and Vegas in particular) it's a simple drag and drop in its native form right onto the time line.... and incredible time-saving convenience that's worth gold. I'm HOPING mc5 is a little more up-to-date in this regard.

    The other thing that concerns me is what comes with MC at this price range. The audio editing in MC is a little lacking, but with the full version (if I am correct) comes with pro tools(?) which would make up for the difference. At $495 are we going to get Protools included? I guess we'll find out in the next few days.

    Not sure what will come with this deal in terms of authoring programs either but I already own DVDitPro HD and to be honest I don't find it all that great. I don't know where Sonic went to but the program hasn't been updated in quite a long time. I can't even create BD iso's with it.  Adobe's Encore and Sony's DVD Architect are far better, but you can't buy these separately so you're talking about picking up an entire package anyway just for the author ware.

    So the way I see it, there are some real highs and lows to consider here and purchasing MC is not QUITE that cut and dry. I'm really sort of sitting on the fence with this one.

  •  03-10-2010, 5:11 386239 in reply to 386222

    Re: MC Impressions

    Pro Tools does not come with MC. That is a separate purchase. Avid DVD by Sonic comes with the bundle. Anyone can obviously use whatever authoring program they choose but Avid DVD is linked from the menus inside of MC.

    I think you should pass on this and continue to use what is working for you. And to keep harping on AVCHD in every one of your posts is telling. MC 5 may support AVCHD. It may not. If that is your primary acquisition format then use another NLE.

  •  03-10-2010, 7:36 386272 in reply to 386222

    Re: MC Impressions

    But what I find irritating to no end is that I have to convert EVERYTHING I want to bring into MC.

    That's taking a lot of time. With other programs (PP and Vegas in particular) it's a simple drag and drop in its native form right onto the time line....

    Jack this is not right.

    1)I don't see anything that isn't import it to MC at my old 3.1.3.13 version. Is that you don't know how to import it more than it can't be imported.

    2)Vegas and PP doesn't import things to its own folder as MC does. This is why their media management is so poor compared to MC's.

    If you have the time and look at the small film I did you will see that you need only some minutes to move projects from a computer to another to continue

    working. This was my main problem even with Liquid to which I couldn't find a solution and I was struggling to not forget a file to take with me when I was moving.

  •  03-10-2010, 15:19 386403 in reply to 386272

    Re: MC Impressions

    sverkalo:
    Is that you don't know how to import it more than it can't be imported.

    Hi Sverkalo,

    No... the files I mostly deal with now are avchd (with or without 5.1 sound) and h.264 from DSLR cams. As far as I can see there is simply no way to import these without a conversion... unless of course I'm missing something?

     

    Thanks.

  •  03-10-2010, 15:32 386410 in reply to 386403

    Re: MC Impressions

    AVCHD no without conversion, We know that Jack. But I have imported fine H264 from D5 or D7 which I have downloaded from internet.

    Can you send me or upload somewhere a small sample to try?

  •  03-10-2010, 15:40 386413 in reply to 386410

    Re: MC Impressions

    It's from the D5 so if you're importing fine then I am obviously missing something.

    How are you doing this?

  •  03-10-2010, 16:11 386422 in reply to 386413

    Re: MC Impressions

    I can't find a raw clip now. I am searching. This is why I asked you to upload a clip.
  •  03-10-2010, 17:16 386450 in reply to 386422

    Re: MC Impressions

    It is not a D5 or D7, it is Canon 5DII (mark II) and 7D !! (I use a Canon DSLR!)

    Also, Avid DVD can create BD image files.

     

  •  03-10-2010, 18:15 386463 in reply to 386450

    Re: MC Impressions

    I just reversed the letters on the 5D.

    I have for sure imported files into MC.

    Do you have problems Sylvain?

  •  03-11-2010, 1:40 386530 in reply to 386272

    Re: MC Impressions

    sverkalo:
    2)Vegas and PP doesn't import things to its own folder as MC does. This is why their media management is so poor compared to MC's.

    Sorry but respectfully you are quite wrong on this. I can't comment on PP but I can with some expertise on Vegas. If you are on the move it could be quite useful to also have the media come along with the project. When working with Vegas (not Liquid as you have said) I can also do a project save, click on the include media box and all the source and derived media files will also be copied to the project folder providing pretty much exactly the same capability that MC has. You have the option to work that way or the more traditional way as with Liquid. Vegas also has a very strong Media Management capability with an included Sql Server application that you can metatag, organize, and query all you like and it is fully integrated in the editor, I believe MC has a similar application, does it not?

    I can appreciate that part of the speed of MC comes from the standardized codec set. One of the advantage of Vegas is the ability to co-mingle media types on the timeline. I have projects with MJpeg HD SLR video, HDV video, PNG's, and AVCHD Video all mixed on the same timeline at the sametime. The price for that is the previews while workable are never going to be as smooth and as fast as MC. Everything has it's tradeoffs no matter which NLE you are looking at. No am I not telling you to buy Vegas or cheering for it, merely setting the record straight. 

    If are going to be injesting AVCHD in MC you might be interested in a tool from NewBlueFX called AVCHD Upshift. It is quite popular in Vegasland and lets you Batch convert AVCHD files to Mpeg2 .m2t transport files. http://www.newbluefx.com/avchd-upshift.html Take your AVCHd where ever it comes from, Hard Drives, cards etc, upshift to .m2t and forget about any AVCHD problems. There is a trial if you want to check it out.

     

  •  03-11-2010, 4:07 386557 in reply to 386422

    Re: MC Impressions

    sverkalo:
    I can't find a raw clip now. I am searching. This is why I asked you to upload a clip.

    Thanks, but I don't really have a place to upload anything to. There are however plenty of raw samples floating around the net already.

    I checked out the Avid forum and there are a few threads there on material from DSLR cams but they're all saying that a conversion is necessary to get them to the MC time line. It would make sense because what comes out of a DSLR is pretty much the same as avchd (only with a different audio type and less file structure). Some are suggesting TmpGenc while others suggest the Panasonic P2 converter. Either way you're still reduced to having to convert before importing. :(

  •  03-11-2010, 4:15 386560 in reply to 386530

    Re: MC Impressions

    bigrock:
    Vegas also has a very strong Media Management capability with an included Sql Server application that you can metatag, organize, and query all you like and it is fully integrated in the editor,

    Yes, I quite agree. I just didn't want to get into discussing Vegas too heavily.... it seems to cause problems around here.

  •  03-11-2010, 5:07 386579 in reply to 386560

    Re: MC Impressions

    There is no problem to discuss Vegas by me. I have it install now and I can test it myself.

    Now when you can't upload a single file to the internet and you are telling me that there are files floating around when I can't find one.

    Can you point me to one or two sites to download a file?

    I don't think that you can have the media with you in minutes as you can do with MC.

    Please tell me how this is done and I will follow.

    bigrock,

    I have come to conclusion that you just want to be against others just for the fun of it.

    When Liquid was up and running you said that Vegas was better than Liquid.

    Now you and Jack are thinking that Vegas is equal to MC's media management.

    OK. Show us how it is.

  •  03-11-2010, 13:22 386734 in reply to 386579

    Re: MC Impressions

    sverkalo:
    Show us how it is.

    You said you can't easily portablize files in Vegas, that is not true. There is no need to make that personal.

    From the Vegas help file: Select the Copy media with project check box if you want to create copies of each of the project's media files in the same location as the project file. This allows you to collect all of a project's assets in a single location.

     [click to view image]

  •  03-11-2010, 13:28 386737 in reply to 386734

    Re: MC Impressions

    Rock,

    come on now, there is nothing personal here.

    The same ways works Premiere.

    But is it the same with Media Composer miracle?

    I will try this...

  •  03-11-2010, 13:49 386746 in reply to 386737

    Re: MC Impressions

    It sure sounded personal but if not then ok. I think you are remembering your battles with a person whose name escapes me who has permanently banned.

    Personally I have never said Vegas was better than Liquid. I did say it was superior in some areas and weaker in others which is true with any NLE including MC.  Vegas also includes a suboption to move only the part of the file that is required to the project file, automatically rendering a new media file which can save significant disk space. It is a useful feature.

    Personally I do not operate like this however. I keep a small Freeagent drive in a USB socket and when I want to go portable I use Microsoft's free Synctoy utility to quickly make a syncronized mirror image of the local files. When I come back I plugin the drive back in, run Synctoy and everything is syncronized. I do this because I am usually working on more than just video. I want all my web project files as well and this works great for me with little effort.

  •  03-11-2010, 13:57 386751 in reply to 386746

    Re: MC Impressions

    Keep in mind that I first think in Greek and then translate to my mind what I say.

    It's not coming natively. This is the different as well between Vegas and MC.

    I will not be very happy not having you and other friends to MC forums when this will close down (if).

    Freeagent is Seagate. Keep away or one day you will remember me. I hope not.

    Some times I use my WD Passport 500GB to have projects with me.

    I copy the files with MDV to a folder of that with the project files and I need no more.

  •  03-11-2010, 14:36 386763 in reply to 386751

    Re: MC Impressions

    Attachment: Capture.jpg

    It's not bad but there is the same problem with Premiere.

    Many files. If you import lets say 300 files from a USB Vegas links not copying like MC.

    That's not necessary bad. But again when you will going to save media with the project it takes much much time.

    And this depends on the drive used to link the files. At MC what is in it's in.

    Even if you don't use MDV or Media Tool and have everything at an e-SATA or USB you just drop the Project Files which is some mb only

    you unplug the drive and you go right away. 

    It's now 10 minutes and is half the way. You can live fine by that but it's not instant like in MC IF you want it to be.


  •  03-11-2010, 14:49 386766 in reply to 386763

    Re: MC Impressions

    This discussion sounds to me as if all NLE's mentioned have a similar system for transferring projects from one drive to another.  How is MC's method different from Liquid's Backup and Restore for projects?  With the impending upgrade offer, I am interested more in comparing MC and Liquid than in the other NLE programs.
  •  03-11-2010, 15:06 386772 in reply to 386766

    Re: MC Impressions

    Igor,

    Liquid's weak point was the backup and restore.

    I tried to move from my dekstop back then one show I was editing (46' final cut) to my laptop.

    I did it but this was a nightmare! MC is king to moving media and not only.

    Look at my small film here to see how quickly this can be done!

    You need an external disk and nothing else. Even usb can make it fine for up to HDV but not with many streams though.

    For this you will need e-SATA.

  •  03-11-2010, 15:31 386779 in reply to 386763

    Re: MC Impressions

    Attachment: media manager.jpg
    sverkalo:

    That's not necessary bad. But again when you will going to save media with the project it takes much much time.

    Your screen shot is not the Vegas Media Manger. It is simply the project media bin

    If you look to the right of my preview screen in my screen shot you will see Vegas Media Manager (the tab even states "MEDIA MANAGER"

    It will track ALL the media on ALL of your drives and you can sort it and tag it for fast and immediate retrieval. I have my tag system set up very simply with; Music loops, Video, BgroundPics. But you can set your tags up as complicated and detailed as you want into sub categories, and Sub-sub categories...etc. It will track and manage ALL media types

    Media Manager does not come as part of Vegas but is a separate download and install. Once installed and you choose "view media manager"  in OPTIONS, it will come up in your tabs.


  •  03-11-2010, 15:45 386787 in reply to 386746

    Re: MC Impressions

    I own and have edited on Vegas (v8), own Adobe PPRO CS4 (basically for Encore as I now edit mainly on Mac OSX and this is only pro authoring package for Bluray on OSX), Edius 5 and FCS3 as well as Avid Media Composer 3 (dongled version on an HP PC) and MC 4 (on Mac Pro). I used to use and love Liquid. MC is far and away the most powerful editing tool I have used and I have only just begun to scratch the surface of its capabilities (getting more proficient thanksin great part to Douglas' excellent and extensive tutorials; which are also free!). IMHO I must agree that the MC media management is vastly superior to Vegas and FCP. Performance is superior to FCS. The 3rd party plugins are very powerful. AVID FX is basically Boris Red which is similar to AE. BCC 6 is great. Avid DVD I have not used as it is PC only. If I had the opportunity now to upgrade to MC at the offer price I would not look at any other NLE. I sold on my Liquid Pro. I was sad to see it go.

    As an aside, Vegas 9 is seemingly a troubled product for many (see the many posts on Vegas Forums regarding problems) MC is v v stable and using DNxHD full raster 1080 25p footage performance is superb. My advice to any Liquid editors is download the trial, use it, then jump at the excellent offer. I do not believe that anyone who migrates to MC 4 at this price point will regret it. The mixed frame rate feature of MC4 is worth it alone, AMA is excellent for dealing with XDcam or DvcProHD. On a Mac, avchd can be rewrapped (very quickly) using Clipwrap then directly imported into MC. Personally, I transcode avchd to DNxHD outside of MC and then Fast import the footage into the Avid. I also believe that eventually Avid will offer AMA compatibility for avchd. Happy editing!

  •  03-11-2010, 15:48 386788 in reply to 386763

    Re: MC Impressions

    sverkalo:
    It's now 10 minutes and is half the way. You can live fine by that but it's not instant like in MC IF you want it to be.

    I think we're spending a little too much time talking about Vegas which is really irrelevant to purchasing MC anyways. If you want that instantlty done you would do that on your intial save with the option checked much like when you create a project in MC. Of course if you do it after the project has a bunch of files it will take time to move that data so do it an first and leave the option checked and it's instant.

  •  03-11-2010, 15:49 386789 in reply to 386779

    Re: MC Impressions

    I do not really want to get into this discussion as it is already deteriorating and I am sure I will end up closing this thread at some point.

    Media management in both Liquid and MC are quite complex and cannot really be discussed in a forum format. However, the difference between MC and all other NLE's is that MC stores the metadata for the media in the media files themselves and the media file database and not in the project files. That creates a very robust and reliable media management scheme. When you start MC it scans your drives for Avid media. All media in Avid, whether video or stills is wrapped in MXF files so MC really works with only one media format. This makes MC very stable. Because MC is designed to work in a collaborative environment, you can have media on one or multiple drives and MC will find the media for a project when MC is started as the metadata is stored with the media. In most cases, MC stores all the media for all projects in a single folder but that is not actually necessary. Again, it is not possible to discuss this fully in a forum. There is an extensive section in the Avid MC manual discussing how media management works in Avid. Bottom line, most people agree that MC has the best media management scheme on the market as it is almost impossible to lose your project assets in MC.

    Final note. I will not allow this forum to be hijacked into a Vegas VS MC forum.

  •  03-11-2010, 15:53 386791 in reply to 386779

    Re: MC Impressions

    Ok let's stay in MC.

    Helping some friends that need to go there from Liquid.

    I think bigrock has a point here.

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