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Creating Video Shortcuts - What am I doing wrong?

Last post 07-26-2020, 21:11 by Candive. 39 replies.
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  •  07-21-2020, 10:51 801877 in reply to 801876

    Re: Creating Video Shortcuts - What am I doing wrong?

    They mean that it can be used in your project like any ordinary asset on your timeline.
  •  07-23-2020, 9:28 801888 in reply to 801877

    Re: Creating Video Shortcuts - What am I doing wrong?

    My next step for this weekend is to refresh a computer with an absolute clean version of Windows 10 and install PS23 to see if I can replicate jjn's result. In the meantime I conducted another test. I'll call this Test 3  as a continuation of Test 1 & 2 in Post 11. If you review my video, I made two shortcuts of the young ladies peeking around the van. If I take the video, the sky is the limit, and create scene's by detection, Pinnicle Studio generates these two scenes better than I could ever have! I can then make these scenes into clips/shortcuts by copying them to a Bin, Collection or the Library Media. I'm going to define them as "scene-cuts" to distinguish them from original "clips", "shortcuts" generated by Corrections and "scenes" generated by Detection.  The following results occur regardless of where they are placed (I tested the 3 locations).

    1. If you click on the "scene-cut" and drag it from the Player, the scene-cut reverts to the whole video.
    2. If you click on the scene-cut and drag it from the Timeline, the scene-cut retains its cut. 
    If anyone can confirm this finding that would be great because it is kind of a workaround. But I have another "scene-cut" test up my sleeve which I will conduct tomorrow night.
  •  07-23-2020, 10:00 801889 in reply to 801888

    Re: Creating Video Shortcuts - What am I doing wrong?

    Sorry, dragging from the timeline to where?

    There are a lot of anomolies here, and I think some of them are relativly new.

    • Starting with a trimmed clip in the Library, If you drag and drop it to the timeline, It retains its trims.
    • If you use the Library Context menu to Send to Timeline, the untrimmed clip gets sent to the timeline.
    • If you drag it from the Source viewer it retains its trims. Same with the Send to Timeline icon tool or the B key.
    • With what you are calling a Scene-cut (A shortcut generated from a scene)  How ever I move it from the Library it just shows the scene
    • If I drag it frm the Source viewer it puts the original on the timeline (this seems really wrong to me)
    • If I use the Send To Timeline Tool or the B key, I get the Scene-cut.

    From what you have written, either you are seeing something very different, or we have a terminology issue. The following is the generally accepted names for the three main secions of the Edit tab.

    Top Left of the normal Edit screen is the Library. On the right are the Source and Timeline Preview windows (either switchable or Dual View), and below is the timeline.

     


  •  07-24-2020, 9:08 801902 in reply to 801888

    Re: Creating Video Shortcuts - What am I doing wrong?

    Candive:
    1. If you click on the "scene-cut" and drag it from the Player, the scene-cut reverts to the whole video.
    2. If you click on the scene-cut and drag it from the Timeline, the scene-cut retains its cut. 

    I apologize for the misunderstanding. It was late and I was tired when I posted. The two statements should read as follows:

    1. If you click on the "scene-cut" and drag it from the Player (Source Preview) to the Timeline, the scene-cut reverts to the whole video.
    2. If you click on the scene-cut and drag it from the Library to the Timeline, the scene-cut retains its cut. 
    jjn, thanks for providing the Panel labels - the correct terminology is very important. In the manual I noted the that the Preview Panel is also referred to as the Player. I couldn't find reference to "viewer' as in Source viewer although this may be common usage on the forum.
     
    I created the term "scene-cut" because I couldn't find any reference in the manual saying that you can create a shortcut from a scene. Subsequently I noticed the scene-cut has the shortcut indicator in the extreme upper left of the thumbnail so by this definition it should be a shortcut. And I hope it is, but I hesitate to assume it is because I haven't completed all my testing.
     
    Also jjn, thank you for listing the 4 different ways of moving assets to the timeline.  Using the Library Context menu to Send to Timeline is equivalent to dragging the clip from the Library to the Timeline. Also using the Send to Timeline icon in the Player is the same as dragging the clip from the Player. The B key acts the same way.
     
    Can we agree on the following statements?
     

    Any clip or shortcut (derived by Correction or Scene Detection) maintains its final composition (all the changes made to the clip) when moved to the Timeline either from the Library (including Media, Collection or Bin) or Source Player (Preview) by any means; drag, context menu, send to timeline icon or B key.


     If a clip or shortcut duration is further reduced in the Source Player, it incorporates this change while maintaining its previous composition derived by Correction or Scene Detection. This duration change is effective only by dragging from the Source Player, clicking on the send to timeline icon or B key. Dragging from the Library or using the context menu does not effect this duration change. 
      
    Does that make sense?

     

     

     

  •  07-25-2020, 20:51 801955 in reply to 801902

    Re: Creating Video Shortcuts - What am I doing wrong?

    I completed my testing using a 3rd computer. This computer was reinstalled with a clean version of Win 10 ver 1909, An image was taken of this re-installation using Acronis so that it could be used in subsequent tests. Each of the following tests involved re-imaging the hard drive with Win 10 and the installation of Pinnacle Studio. i will continue the Test sequence I started in posts 11 and 14.

     

    Test 4

    The computer is re-imaged with Win 10. Taking the Pinnacle Studio 23 installation execution file and downloaded files obtained from the link I was sent after purchasing the program, PS23 was reinstalled and my workflow demonstrated in my video was followed. Test Result: exactly the same as in the video and the first two computers. Cannot replicate jjn's result. Lesson learned: no other program is influencing PS23.

     

    Test 5

    I thought maybe its the files I downloaded from the link/server sent to me are in some way corrupt.  I obtained another PS23 installation execution file directly from the Pinnacle knowledge base webpage. The computer was re-imaged with Win 10 and the installation file executed which resulted in downloading all required files again and re-installation of PS23. Test Result: exactly the same as in the video and the first two computers. Cannot replicate jjn's result. Lesson learned: The downloaded files are exactly the same.

     

    Test 6

    I thought maybe jnn only installed just the PS23 Ultimate program and not the standard and bonus content; just the bare-bones system. Perhaps its the content that is causing the problem. The computer was re-imaged with Win 10. PS23 was custom installed to exclude the standard and bonus content. Test Result: exactly the same as in the video and the first two computers. Cannot replicate jjn's result. Lesson learned: additional content has no influence.

     

    Test 7

    I don't have access to a previous version of Pinnacle Studio so I can not compare the two systems. But I do have access to the Trial! How does the Trial compare?  The computer was re-imaged with Win 10. The Pinnacle Studio Trial was installed. Test Result: Success! I was able to replicate jjn's result! Lesson learned: PS23 version 23.2.1.297 (64-bit) is completely messed up and needs to be fixed by the programmers.

     

    Additional adhoc testing on the Trial version 

    Rather than just dragging the clip and shortcuts from the Library and Player, I tested all four methods of moving the elements to the Timeline; dragging and context menu from the Library and from the Player, dragging, send to timeline icon and B key. All methods resulted in jjn's result. 

    I was also able to conclude that the shortcuts generated by Corrections and the shortcuts generated by Scenes which I called "scene-cuts" act exactly the same way - in the Trial. Therefore going forward I will call "scene-cuts" shortcuts because they are suppose to work that way and I want to avoid terminology confusion. Unfortunately in my purchased version, scene-cuts do not work the same way as shortcuts but I'm not going to waste time providing detail because my version is completely messed up and needs to be fixed anyway.

     

    So does that mean shortcuts work perfectly in the Trial version of Pinnacle Studio? Nope. The shortcuts in the Trial also have a bug which I will outline in my next post.   

     

     

     

     


  •  07-25-2020, 23:02 801956 in reply to 801955

    Re: Creating Video Shortcuts - What am I doing wrong?

    The First Problem with Shortcuts in the Trial version of Pinnacle Studio

    I stopped testing shortcuts in mt paid version of PS23 because it is just wrong. The trial version is better since I was successful in creating two shortcuts in Corrections by reducing their duration and they maintained this attribute when moved to the Timeline either from the Library or Player. The problem with shortcuts in the trial version is a bit more complex. Before I described the two problems I want to simplify and clarify my 2 underlying assumptions regarding shortcuts which I made in Post 15:

     

    • Any clip or shortcut maintains its Final Composition when moved to the Timeline either from the Library or Source Player by any means; drag, context menu, send to timeline icon or B key. Final Composition means the clip has been enhanced by means of Correction or a shortcut has been created from Correction or Scene.   

    • If a clip or shortcut duration is further reduced in the Source Player, it incorporates this duration change while maintaining its previous composition attributes derived by Correction. This duration change only impacts the specific clip or shortcut and does not impact any other clip or shortcut. It is effective only by dragging the clip or shortcut from the Source Player, clicking on the send to timeline icon or hitting the B key. Dragging from the Library or using the context menu does not effect this duration change.
     
    If my above assumptions are incorrect, fair enough but the following tests are based on these two assumptions. Tests 8 and 9 highlight a sequence error.
     
     
    TEST 8
     
    Going back to my first example where I have the original sky is the limit clip and two shortcuts. I click on a shortcut and reduce its duration in the Source player.
    1. I move the shortened duration shortcut from the Player to the Timeline using either of the three methods. The shortcut on the Timeline has been shortened - Pass
    2. I click on the second shortcut. Don't change anything but move it from the Player to the Timeline. It maintains its original duration - Pass
    3. I finally click on the original clip. Don't change anything but move it from the Player to the Timeline. It maintains its original duration - Pass

    These results make sense to me. I made a change to a shortcut but its change didn't influence the other shortcut or original clip.

      

     
    TEST 9
     
    Going back to my first example where I have the original sky is the limit clip and two shortcuts. I click on the original clip and reduce its duration in the Source player.
    1. I move the shortened duration clip from the Player to the Timeline using either of the three methods. The clip on the Timeline has been shortened - Pass
    2. I click on the first shortcut. Don't change anything but move it from the Player to the Timeline. It maintains its original duration - Pass
    3. I finally click on the second shortcut. Don't change anything but move it from the Player to the Timeline. It maintains its original duration - Pass
    These results make sense to me. I made a change to the orignal clip but its change didn't influence the other 2 shortcuts.
     
     
     
    TEST 10
     
    Going back to my first example where I have the original sky is the limit clip and two shortcuts. I click on a shortcut and reduce its duration in the Source player.
    1. I move the shortened duration shortcut from the Player to the Timeline using either of the three methods. The shortcut on the Timeline has been shortened - Pass
    2. I click on the original clip. Don't change anything but move it from the Player to the Timeline. It changes its duration to match the shortcut - Fail
    3. I finally click on the second shortcut. Don't change anything but move it from the Player to the Timeline. It maintains its original duration - Pass
    For some reason, if you click on the original clip right after altering the shortcut in the Player, the original clip takes on the duration property of the altered shortcut!
     
     

     

  •  07-25-2020, 23:05 801957 in reply to 801956

    Re: Creating Video Shortcuts - What am I doing wrong?

    Candive:
     
    If my above assumptions are incorrect, fair enough but the following tests are based on these two assumptions. Tests 8 and 9 highlight a sequence error.
     

     
    TEST 10
     
    Going back to my first example where I have the original sky is the limit clip and two shortcuts. I click on a shortcut and reduce its duration in the Source player.
    1. I move the shortened duration shortcut from the Player to the Timeline using either of the three methods. The shortcut on the Timeline has been shortened - Pass
    2. I click on the original clip. Don't change anything but move it from the Player to the Timeline. It changes its duration to match the shortcut - Fail
    3. I finally click on the second shortcut. Don't change anything but move it from the Player to the Timeline. It maintains its original duration - Pass
    For some reason, if you click on the original clip right after altering the shortcut in the Player, the original clip takes on the duration property of the altered shortcut!
      

    The above statement should read; tests 8, 9 and 10 highlight a sequence error.

  •  07-25-2020, 23:43 801958 in reply to 801957

    Re: Creating Video Shortcuts - What am I doing wrong?

    The Second Problem with Shortcuts in the Trial version of Pinnacle Studio

    All my previous tests focused on changing the duration of a clip or shortcut. But what about the other enhancements you can make to a clip or shortcut? Do they follow my tow assumption statements? Unfortunately not.

    Take the original clip and two shortcuts. In Correction, enhance them in the following manner:

    1. For the original clip, reduce brightness so that it becomes very dark.
    2. For the first shortcut, increase brightness so that it becomes very light.
    3. For the second shortcut, decrease saturation so that it becomes black and white.

     

    Test 11


    From the Library, move each clip/shortcut to the Timeline by either of the two methods; dragging or context menu. They all maintain their "Final Composition" on the Timeline. So this test is a Pass.

     

    Test 12 

     

    From the Source Player, move each clip/shortcut to the Timeline by either of the three methods; dragging, sent to timeline icon, B key. The two shortcuts take on the composition of the original clip while maintaining their relative duration. This test is a Fail.

     
     
  •  07-25-2020, 23:47 801959 in reply to 801958

    Re: Creating Video Shortcuts - What am I doing wrong?

    So there you have it. My first simple question on this forum led to an intense weekend of testing. I will be contacting Pinnacle Support. I sure hope they can fix shortcuts in PS23 before they release PS24 in August.
  •  07-26-2020, 2:25 801960 in reply to 801959

    Re: Creating Video Shortcuts - What am I doing wrong?

    I'm impressed and pleased to see such a methodical approach to the problems with shortcuts, and it's good to see that you have finally reproduced the same results as I'm seeing.

     I'm going to try to reproduce your results, but I'm suspious that a number of the things you report, even with the trial, don't appear to be happening here. At the moment I'm very tied up with something else (two things actually) so a full analysis of your post may need to wait a while as I don't want to rush it.

    Just one point though. I'm not running the trial. I'm running a download of 23.2.1.297. On one computer it was patched from the disc iso. On another it was installed from a straight download from https://www.pinnaclesys.com/en/landing/download/ onto a completely clean system. Both systems exhibit the behaviour I report.

    So I don't see how your assertion that "Lesson learned: PS23 version 23.2.1.297 (64-bit) is completely messed up and needs to be fixed by the programmers." can be true - certainly the use of the word "completely". If that was the case, no one would be able reproduce what I'm seeing, not even myself, with 23.2.1.297 Yes, there may be an issue with it that is causing problems for some people, but not everyone - and that makes it hard to debug.

    I'm not sure, but I think the Trial version may be based on PS22. Under the Help menu, what version number do you get displayed?

     

     

  •  07-26-2020, 4:23 801961 in reply to 801959

    Re: Creating Video Shortcuts - What am I doing wrong?

    Candive:
    So there you have it. My first simple question on this forum led to an intense weekend of testing. I will be contacting Pinnacle Support. I sure hope they can fix shortcuts in PS23 before they release PS24 in August.

    Do not hope too much ...

  •  07-26-2020, 4:23 801962 in reply to 801960

    Re: Creating Video Shortcuts - What am I doing wrong?

    jjn:

    I'm not sure, but I think the Trial version may be based on PS22. 

    Agreed. PS22 or even PS21, but not based on PS23.

  •  07-26-2020, 7:52 801971 in reply to 801960

    Re: Creating Video Shortcuts - What am I doing wrong?

    jjn:

    So I don't see how your assertion that "Lesson learned: PS23 version 23.2.1.297 (64-bit) is completely messed up and needs to be fixed by the programmers." can be true - certainly the use of the word "completely". If that was the case, no one would be able reproduce what I'm seeing, not even myself, with 23.2.1.297 Yes, there may be an issue with it that is causing problems for some people, but not everyone - and that makes it hard to debug.

    I'm not sure, but I think the Trial version may be based on PS22. Under the Help menu, what version number do you get displayed?

     

     

    Hi jjn, 

    I apologize if I sounded a bit too harsh in my assessment. I purchased the software on July 12th and I fell in love with it, so I really want it to work; hence the time spent working on it.  I think its my internal frustration surfacing. The fact is, I downloaded the software twice, installed it on three different machines and consistently got the same result; which wasn't yours. My errors are not random; I can reproduce them. Thankfully the trial worked!...to the extent that it confirmed your findings. The trial version is 1.0.0.162 which is meaningless but when you click on the user manual; version 21/21.5 comes up.

    Here is the knowledge base page I downloaded the executable; 

     https://support.corel.com/hc/en-us/articles/360051201274-Pinnacle-Studio-23-Uninstall-and-Reinstall-Instructions-for-Pinnacle-Studio-23

    and here is the actual link;

     http://cdn.pinnaclesys.com/Release/webinstaller/PinnacleStudio_23/uHbeMbKNms/Pinnacle-Studio_23_Installer.exe

     

    So why are we getting different results? Its not because our workflows are different since you have my video and we ruled out any other software influence by installing on clean machines. I now suspect it may be a server issue. I'm located in Australia and you are in the UK. We may be pulling the software from different servers. And the software I'm downloading has the same version number but corrupt code. Remember, I downloaded it twice and installed it on three different machines; all with the same result.

    So here is my plan. On my main machine,I'm going to uninstall PS23 in accordance with the knowledge base. I'm then going to turn on my VPN and locate myself virtually in Europe. I'll then download and install the software using your link. Sounds a bit crazy but I can't think of anything else at this stage.

          

  •  07-26-2020, 10:47 801973 in reply to 801971

    Re: Creating Video Shortcuts - What am I doing wrong?

    Candive:

    So here is my plan. On my main machine,I'm going to uninstall PS23 in accordance with the knowledge base. I'm then going to turn on my VPN and locate myself virtually in Europe. I'll then download and install the software using your link. Sounds a bit crazy but I can't think of anything else at this stage.

    So i followed the above plan; Same result as all other installations except for the Trial which agrees with jjn.

  •  07-26-2020, 21:11 801982 in reply to 801973

    Re: Creating Video Shortcuts - What am I doing wrong?

    My next hypothesis is that a previous version of Pinnacle Studio influences PS23. I know that jjn installed PS23 on a clean system by itself but I'm running out of options. Unfortunately I don't have a previous version of Pinnacle Studio, but I do have the Trial which is based on version 21. After installing the Trial, I installed PS23. Unfortunately it overwrote the Trial. I then tried to install the Trial after PS23, but the system It wouldn't let me. So there goes that test. Sad

    Since this was another fresh install of PS23, I decided to test it anyway. Same result as my other installations.Angry

    Just for completeness, in a previous post I mentioned that shortcuts generated by Scenes, (I called "scene-cuts") are different to those generated by Correction in the Production system. In the Trial system, both act exactly the same so therefore can be called shortcuts. But in Production, scene-cuts act like shortcuts in the Trial. Its only when a shortcut is generated by Correction do we get this error in the Production system. While the Production scene-cuts are the same as the Trial shortcuts, they also inherit the two problems I outline in tests 8 to 12.

    Anyone have any other idea I can try?  

         

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