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Can liquid 7 run on windows 7?

Last post 02-03-2014, 4:37 by david@dvc.uk.com. 49 replies.
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  •  08-23-2013, 14:11 602780 in reply to 602630

    Re: Re:Can liquid 7 run on windows 7?

    GoofyTimL:
    EDIUS* Software should arrive Friday.  Not sure when I can get the PC built, or bought.  We'll see.  Still looking over the DIY info Phil sent me.

    Tim,

    I built a computer a few months ago, very similar to that DIY9.5 that Videoguys have done (see my profile for more details).  I made it primarily with Media Composer in mind because I took advantage of Avid's great upgrade offer to go from Liquid 7.2 to MC 5 a few years ago (I am now on MC 7).  If it weren't for that MC upgrade offer at that time, I would also have gone with Edius.  When the end of life for Liquid was announced, I played around with several potential replacements such as Vegas, Premiere Pro and even Editshare's free Lightworks, but found Edius to be the most similar to Liquid of all of them.  I do certainly agree with Lew et al. that Edius is a good way for a Liquid editor to advance into the 64 bit world.

    As I said, the computer that I built for Media Composer works very well with it and should also do well for you with Edius.

  •  11-29-2013, 14:28 614373 in reply to 602630

    Re: Re:Can liquid 7 run on windows 7?

    Its nice to see some of the oldy moldies in the old forum.  I have yet to find my holy grail replacement for Liquid.  In fact, I'm still using it heavily for my VHS/MiniDV/Video8-Hi8-Digital8 camcorder tape conversions.  Ok, edius guys... can you tell met that you can drop 2hrs of  raw imported media into a template that includes the DVD menu, update 3 motion backgrounds in the menu, make a few chapter points and program buttons in the menu in the matter of about 15 minutes, then hit the export to DVD and have an ISO file in about 1hr45min, then you might have my business.  

     I have tried ALL of the other NLEs, and ALL of them, even the whimpy studio 17, has separate DVD authoring.  That leads to a much longer workflow for me.  

     Is it just me, or am I missing something???  THe critical features of Liquid STILL do not exist in ANY other NLE, at least that I'm aware of...

    1. True background render

    2. DVD menu on the timeline

    3. Track based effects (instead of clip)

    4. Containers

    5. A descent multicam 

     Its been sooooo long.... I feel like I'm alone.

     

    Rod 

  •  11-29-2013, 18:45 614401 in reply to 614373

    Re: Re:Can liquid 7 run on windows 7?

    1. It is very rare that you need to render anything in Edius. All the effects supplied are realtime and unless you are doing complex layers, there is no need to render. You can also put any kind of material on a timeline and it will just work, without rendering.

    2. No DVD menu on the timeline. There is built-in authoring from the timeline but the menu appears in the authoring module. If I need complex menus, I just export a Canopus HQ or HQX file to Sony DVD Architect Studio (inexpensive but powerful) and author there. Much more powerful than Liquid's authoring and exporting an HQ or HQX file is very fast. You can author DVD and Bluray from within Edius or DVD Architect. No support for bluray in Liquid.

    3. No track based effects. You can put effects on containers. You can also copy effects from the info pane to multiple clips in one shot. You can also save all customized effects including multiple effects on one clip into a single effect that can then be applied in one shot to other clips. All saved effects appear in any subsequent projects. Much better than Liquid.

    Yes to containers but containers are made by creating a sequence and then putting that sequence in another sequence. Unlimited sequences in a project and they are tabbed above the timeline so easy to switch between them. Also, if you nest a sequence in a sequence (as a container) any changes to the original are reflected in the container.

    Much better multicam than Liquid. You can mix and match any format of material in multicam and it all works. No need to create a muticam clip. It works from clips on the timeline. Probably one of the best implementations of multicam around. When you are finished creating your multicam edit, you can then condense it to a single clip that is automatically placed on a track above the multicam individual clips if that makes it easier to work on the project from that point forward.

    Much more flexibility in creating work spaces and you can save unlimited workspaces. Liquid did not work very well with 16:9 monitors unless you used the smaller inlays. No such limitations in Edius.

    Liquid does some things better than any other NLE but there are so many things it can't do in the current file based world. If you are still using tape as your source files, then Liquid is great. If you are using AVCHD or other file based formats, then Liquid is almost useless.

    I have been experimenting with 4K material from a Sony camera and I can do two layers of 4K in HQX format with effects in realtime in a 4K project. I am seriously considering getting a 4K camera. The ability to easily edit 4K in a standard HD project opens up lots of possibilities for creating shots without losing resolution using the layouter (equivalent to the 2D/3D editors in Liquid but in one place).

    Again, Liquid was ahead of its time for a long time, but its time has passed and without any support it is really time for Liquid users to move on.

  •  11-29-2013, 19:30 614405 in reply to 614401

    Re: Re:Can liquid 7 run on windows 7?

    Rod,

    If you are running a trial with the attitude that you won't like it, then you probably won't. Lew, Tony, Dave, myself were some of the strongest promoters of Liquid. We've moved on...some people to MC, Edius, Adobe, Vegas pro...

    You seem to forget that Liquid requires activation to avoid demo mode. The activation server is offline. 

  •  11-30-2013, 21:25 614472 in reply to 614405

    Re: Re:Can liquid 7 run on windows 7?

    Lew and others

    Your fingers must be getting numb from giving the same good advice. The past is over its time to move on!  

  •  12-01-2013, 9:00 614492 in reply to 614472

    Re: Re:Can liquid 7 run on windows 7?

    Well, I understand that people are reluctant to leave what they are familiar and comfortable with. It was very hard for me to move on from Liquid. I think that Edius is a good alternative because in many ways it is so similar to Liquid that the learning curve is quite short. It is also very stable. Media Composer is much more powerful but the learning curve is also much steeper. I think that when it comes to handling file based formats, Edius is very well thought out. AMA in MC works OK but Edius rarely requires transcoding to another format. With AMA, you usually need to transcode to DNxHD for MC to work best. This is especially true with AVCHD or other long gop formats.

    I also understand that just running the trial of an editor for a short period of time usually does not make you comfortable in it. You usually end up going back to what you are familiar with and write off the trial software. At some point you have to look at what program has the features you want, buy it, learn it, use it on real projects and become comfortable with it. When I go back and play with Liquid now, it feels very uncomfortable compared to what I use now. Funny how that works. The human brain is an interesting device.

  •  12-01-2013, 17:22 614534 in reply to 614492

    Re: Re:Can liquid 7 run on windows 7?

    Lew and John, nice to see you both again. can you help me please

    With Liquid I use the AJA Xena/LHE card to output my editing to a second monitor in HD, is that possible with Edius?

     

  •  12-01-2013, 18:24 614541 in reply to 614534

    Re: Re:Can liquid 7 run on windows 7?

    I know for sure that Edius will support AJA cards soon. The website says 4th quarter of this year. I don't know if that has slipped or not. You might want to give Grass Valley or Gary at Videoguys a call and see if the AJA support is available now. I know there is good support now for Blackmagic cards and, of course, GV cards. More info here:

     

     

  •  12-02-2013, 8:11 614626 in reply to 614541

    Re: Re:Can liquid 7 run on windows 7?

    AJA support is not available for EDIUS yet, but I am being told it will come in December sometime.  The same is true for full support on Matrox cards.
  •  12-02-2013, 8:40 614633 in reply to 614626

    Re: Re:Can liquid 7 run on windows 7?

    Thanks David. Nice to see you still watch this forum. For those who don't remember, David was a Liquid dealer and is an Edius dealer in the UK.
  •  12-02-2013, 9:38 614649 in reply to 614633

    Re: Re:Can liquid 7 run on windows 7?

    I am also a long term Liquid user who is revisiting a project started in Liquid many years and there are still times when I feel like going back to it because there were definitely lots of good points and none of the other programs are exactly the same.  But then when I do go back to Liquid I am reminded of lots of other stuff I have in the new programs (chiefly EDIUS, but I also use Avid & Premiere) that is not in Liquid, and I really need.  Also you really need to run Liquid on Windows XP and half of the hardware & software I use - like USB3 drives, and updated versions of Boris - do not work properly on XP or with Liquid.

    You will have to move on sometime.  If it is any consolation this is how many Final Cut Pro 7 users are feeling now their program is dead although they have at least got Adobe trying to make Premiere work like FCP7 for them.

    Someone said they had Liquid working on Windows 7 properly.  It doesn't for me.  Most of Liquid works but I cannot get the advanced colour correction to work properly at all.  If anyone knows how to fix that I would be interested.  Basically if I apply colour correction using the advanced tool with secondary cc etc in it (can't remember the proper name at the moment) when you exit it, the correction is not applied.

    The reason it would be nice to make it work is that I still have customers who have moved onto new programs buy want Liquid on a system so they can open old projects. The last one of these we did had to be set up as a dual boot between XP and windows 7 an was a pain.

     

  •  12-02-2013, 10:34 614662 in reply to 614649

    Re: Re:Can liquid 7 run on windows 7?

    AFAIK, there is no fix for the colorcorrection editor issue. Those who say they have it running on Win 7 probably do not use that component of Liquid. I tried to make it work and could not find any way to do so.
  •  12-02-2013, 16:40 614695 in reply to 614662

    Re: Re:Can liquid 7 run on windows 7?

    Thanks. I thought that was the case but thought I would ask.
  •  12-04-2013, 17:00 615003 in reply to 614695

    Re: Re:Can liquid 7 run on windows 7?

    Thanks Lew, I shall give David a ring in the new year.

    I Bought my editing computer from DVC a few years ago

  •  01-21-2014, 10:25 620970 in reply to 614662

    Re: Re:Can liquid 7 run on windows 7?

    When you guys refer to the color corrector not working - are u talking about the classic?  or the RT?  On my 2 windows 7 systems the RT color corrector works fine - never use the other one so...in fact, other than the pro break out box not working from no drivers available everything seems to work well.  i produce about 20 car dealer spots a month and have moved through the years from windows 2000, XP, Vista and now windows 7 on several various machines. Liquid just seems to work no matter what.  There are a few quirks every now and then with the classic 2d and 3d effects but nothing that prevents using them on many things.

     

  •  01-22-2014, 11:13 621097 in reply to 620970

    Re: Re:Can liquid 7 run on windows 7?

    The one that does not work is the colour correction editor which has all the colour matching and secondary colour correction tools in it.

    In Windows 7 I can go into the editor, change stuff and exit, and when you look at the clip on the timeline the effect is not applied.  Sometimes it does work but if you got back into the CC editor it looses all settings.

    Most of the other filters work, it is the advanced one that doesn't.  It works in XP and Vista 64, but not Windows 7 or 8.

  •  01-27-2014, 13:55 621581 in reply to 614492

    Re: Re:Can liquid 7 run on windows 7?

    Lew (or anyone else with an opinion):

    I think you may have answered my question . . . but will post for any additional insights.

    I'm a former Liquid 7 Pro user who got out of video editing just about the time that Avid bought Pinnacle.  I did, however, purchase the 'special deal' upgrade to Media Composer 5 which remains in its original shipping container, unopened.

    I'm getting back into video editing as hobby user without critical editing requirements.  Since we already own MC5, should we go ahead and install/use it?  Or does the easier learning curve for Edius that you mentioned make the expense of the Edius upgrade worthwhile?  Lastly, if I use MC5, will we need to upgrade to the current version (7, I think)?  Turns out that the upgrade to MC7 is about the same cost as that of the Edius crossgrade.

    One last question.  I will need a new "system" . . . do you have recommendations?  Are the DIY solutions offered by VideoGuys sufficient?  Thanks. 

    Winston 

     

  •  01-27-2014, 18:40 621611 in reply to 621581

    Re: Re:Can liquid 7 run on windows 7?

    Yes to the DIY solutions from Videoguys. Be aware, if you go with MC, you will need an nVidia Quadro card for MC to work correctly. They are expensive.

    If it were me going from Liquid, I would go with the Edius upgrade as the learning curve will be much easier. You can use one of the Intel CPU's with video on-board, which gives you the option to use Quicksync if you are working with AVCHD. This will really speed up rendering on output. The higher end Intel CPU's may not have onboard video; my I7-3930K does not but it has six dual cores. I do have a Quadro card for when I use MC. If you are just going to use Edius, you don't need one. Talk with Gary at Videoguys for the best advice.

  •  01-28-2014, 5:41 621657 in reply to 621611

    Re: Re:Can liquid 7 run on windows 7?

    Both EDIUS and MC are very good.  Personally I am a big EDIUS fan, but I also use Avid. You can use MC5 right now and it will deal with more formats than Liquid; you need to upgrade to MC7 because it deals with more modern formats, is 64 bit, and you can use cheap hardware like a Blackmagic Intensity Pro for output.

    If you have Windows 7 you can get a trial of each program and see how you get on with it.  EDIUS is closer to Liquid in many ways than Avid.  Avid is a bit harder to learn because there are quite a few bits where "if you want to do x you need to do y". 

    A good example that came up yesterday with a customer is rubber banding the audio - I have done this many times but just could not do it when asked and had to look it up.  You have to make sure you select the right drop down setting in the timeline view (which used to be called automation gain but is now called volume) and then add a keyframe before the rubber band line shows up.  I knew that but was so used to it being called automation gain in previous versions that I clicked on all sorts of stuff until I eventually found that in MC7 it is called volume.

    In every program you have to learn how to do stuff or you can't do it so is this kind of thing a major drawback to using the program? It is always a pain when it happens and I just think there is more of it in Avid; if you don't use it all the time you end up doing more head scratching and more googling for answers.

    You don't need a Quadro for Avid - I have used it happily on lots of different cards.  If you have a problem and go to the forums people will blame your problems on the lack of a validated card.  MC7 is a bit more forgiving than MC5. EDIUS has less hardware problems than both programs.

    There are tutorials to get you working with both programs. An ex-liquid user called Douglas did a lot of free tutorials which he put on the Avid website.  There are less for EDIUS.  Grass Valley have some on their site, and I put some one mine here:

    http://www.dvc.uk.com/acatalog/A-complete-edit-in-EDIUS-7.html

    I also did a comparison between EDIUS, Avid and Premiere which you can see here:

    http://www.dvc.uk.com/acatalog/Edius_Premiere_Pro.html

    Which may help.

    The DIY systems on Videoguys are fine but they are obsessed with 2011 pin systems rather than using the slightly cheaper Haswell processors.  The Haswell's have a major advantage with EDIUS because EDIUS uses Intel Quicksync, which is built into the Haswell processor, which gves you much faster encoding for Blu-ray and MP4 file.  If you have a look at the system specs on my site that will give you and idea of the kind of components you could use. 
  •  01-28-2014, 14:27 621742 in reply to 621657

    Re: Re:Can liquid 7 run on windows 7?

    Thanks to both David and Lew for your comments.  We're still researching.

    Incidentally David, it appears that the most recently released VideoGuys DIY10 specs the Intel i7 Haswell processor. 

  •  01-28-2014, 19:02 621771 in reply to 621742

    Re: Re:Can liquid 7 run on windows 7?

    It is true that you can use an NVidia GTX card for MC, it is is also true that you will get a ROS from forum members saying that you can't. I am running MC 6 with an AMD processor, it works with complete stability.

    Edius is an excellent NLE, either way, it is time to move on from Liquid. 

  •  01-29-2014, 4:54 621798 in reply to 621771

    Re: Re:Can liquid 7 run on windows 7?

    I must have missed that on Videoguys..  I subscribe to the newsletter and just keep seeing things about get a 2011 pin.  The Haswells are really good.  2011 pins are better for most stuff as they have more cores and are more expandable, but cost more and don't have quicksync.  For most programs more power is better.  It is true for EDIUS apart from when making H.264 files which it does with Quicksync a lot faster than anything else. 

    You don't want to run liquid on one of these fast new machines.  It runs really well so just leaves you feeling more frustrated that it was never developed and never made into a 64 bit program ;-)

  •  01-31-2014, 14:25 622123 in reply to 621798

    Re: Re:Can liquid 7 run on windows 7?

    Lew, David and Others with Insights or Opinions:

    Having read your helpful responses, we are transitioning from Liquid 7 to Edius.  But a few issues remain.

    First, our “history” is Hi8 and DV.  We will require means for importing these formats into Edius.

    Second, we understand that a “card” or “box” (BOB) is required to view HD editing real-time.  In view of the above import requirements, what hardware is recommended.  When editing SD, will a proper 3:4 image be displayed through this same hardware/HDMI interface?  As budget is a factor, we would appreciate a focus on the lesser expensive alternatives - - including separate import and output card/devices.

    Finally, we are looking to obtain a couple of HD cameras.  The first would be a comparatively compact consumer model with a VIEWFINDER.  The second would be a more capable “prosumer” model with full 1920x1080 HD capability.  

    Thanks in advance for your help.

    Winston
  •  01-31-2014, 18:31 622155 in reply to 622123

    Re: Re:Can liquid 7 run on windows 7?

    I don't know anything about Hi8, but DV would be transferred using the IEEE 1394 port as a direct digital transfer. Make sure your computer is equipped with such a port. As we move to a file based world, many computers no longer have one. You might have to get an inexpensive IEEE port card if the motherboard does not provide IEEE support.

    As far as monitoring goes, you can use a Blackmagic card or the GV HD Spark card. Both give you HDMI out. However, if you have dual outputs on your video card, you could use one monitor for full screen viewing and the other for editing. Edius makes this very easy and you can also easily switch back forth between Edius across both screens and Edius on one and full screen on the other. You can save your own multiple screen layouts in Edius, unlike Liquid.

    If you have a DV camera that does analog to digital passthrough (many do), you could use the DV camera connected to the IEEE port to capture the analog Hi8 footage. Hopefully you will transition quickly to more modern, file based source material such as AVCHD. There are great inexpensive cameras out there today.

     

  •  02-03-2014, 4:37 622428 in reply to 622155

    Re: Re:Can liquid 7 run on windows 7?

    The playout without hardware - making EDIUS take over a second PC screen - is ok, and more reliable than Liquids "second head VGA" but still not ass good as a decent HD output.  You can also output through FireWire but that is on SD, like Liquid.

    The best thing is get a Blackmagic I/o card.  The Intensity Pro is £125+VAT in the UK and does component composite, SVIDEO and HDMI in and out, so it can capture your old Hi8 stuff too.  There are also other Blackmagic gizmos that door more which are between this price and £600.  The £600 card does 4K as well.  

    The nicest cheap one to get is the Intensity Shuttle which connects via USB3, has all the same connections as the Intensity Pro and outputs from 10 bit projects as well as 8 bit projects.  However the biggest problem is finding a USB3 chipset this likes, as it does not work properly with many of them.

    Grass Valley cards like the HDSPARK are good, probably made of higher quality components than Blackmagic, but do the same job.

    The only other issue we have had, which has happened with nearly all modern capture cards, is that they are not so tolerant of bad signals.   So some people trying to capture from old Hi8 or VHS tapes have found it does not work and that they have needed to buy a timebase corrector as well  (about £150) to clean up the signal before they feed it to their capture device.  We tested this on many new devices and also some 10 year old ones, and the 10 year old ones worked better.  That's progress I guess.

     

     

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