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What's after Avid Liquid?

Last post 04-24-2012, 11:18 by Sylvain P. 51 replies.
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  •  11-14-2011, 4:00 499569 in reply to 499522

    Re: What's after Avid Liquid?

    Igor,

    I never saw a phrase that Avid Studio is the so called NextGen. And to be honest, it was never said that MC was. MC existed before NextGen ever was announced and a lot of former Liquid users had made the "jump" to MC far before the offer was made.

    But I see it this way, that by the withdrawl of NextGen, AVID came with the more than generous offer for the Liquid users. I took, after some thinking over, the opportunity and I must admit that I had big problems in getting the grips on MC. One of the disadvantages of it was, that I had to buy a complete new system for MC. Until then it worked, but many things did not work as I like or should work.

    I'm still considering what to do with the offer for the MC6 upgrade. I always say: after this upgrade, there will be no more upgrading for me anymore. And then, I look in my purse and go for it one time more. I behave like an addict.....

     

  •  11-14-2011, 8:06 499599 in reply to 499569

    Re: What's after Avid Liquid?

    As the Liquid to MC process flowed, Avid stated that there was to be no Liquid replacement...that was a direct statement...and why the allowance for the Liquid to MC was started. So as such, NexGen became NoGen.

    Avid Studio is more of an upgrade to Studio, as the code, based on the Liquid engine was due for a re-write. 

  •  11-14-2011, 9:36 499618 in reply to 499599

    Re: What's after Avid Liquid?

    I took advantage of the Avid upgrade offer to MC, and have taken the upgrade to MC 5.5 for $150 with the free upgrade to 6. Plus, I still have Liquid. From my perspective, it's hard for me to complain. Avid has certainly been good to me!
  •  11-14-2011, 10:22 499624 in reply to 499618

    Re: What's after Avid Liquid?

    +1
  •  11-16-2011, 12:18 499930 in reply to 499569

    Re: What's after Avid Liquid?

    Sef:

    Igor,

    I never saw a phrase that Avid Studio is the so called NextGen. And to be honest, it was never said that MC was. MC existed before NextGen ever was announced and a lot of former Liquid users had made the "jump" to MC far before the offer was made.

    But I see it this way, that by the withdrawl of NextGen, AVID came with the more than generous offer for the Liquid users. I took, after some thinking over, the opportunity and I must admit that I had big problems in getting the grips on MC. One of the disadvantages of it was, that I had to buy a complete new system for MC. Until then it worked, but many things did not work as I like or should work.

    I'm still considering what to do with the offer for the MC6 upgrade. I always say: after this upgrade, there will be no more upgrading for me anymore. And then, I look in my purse and go for it one time more. I behave like an addict.....

     

    Dave Stone (Liquid moderator) stated that NextGen is Avid Studio in one of the posts when AS was first released.  It also seems to fit the descriptive hints of what we were to expect in NextGen while it was under development.  To me it fits all the comments about the simpler functionality than Liquid, able to handle the new formats (e.g. AVCHD) and work on multi-core processors and in a 64-bit OS.  These qualities indicate that AS fits the NextGen mold.

    Yes, the upgrade offer from Liquid to MC ($499 to MC5 and now $149 to MC6) was very generous, but there is also a generous upgrade offer from Liquid to Avid Studio ($99.00 and still ongoing).

    Why do you think that NextGen and Avid Studio are not related?

  •  11-16-2011, 12:56 499947 in reply to 499930

    Re: What's after Avid Liquid?

    I did not say that NextGen en Studio were not related. I only wanted to say that we, as LE users (some of us also Beta-testers) had expectations for Nextgen that never were fullfilled for the simple reason that NextGen never was released. The presentations for NextGen by Jan Piros, only stated future developments would be realised that we have been waiting for, a long time. Of course, we knew the limitations of LE but we had (I did anyway) left Studio behind. Now, Studio has been developed in a splendid way. It was at the moment of the death of LE, far more suitable for the state of the art PC's and video formats, than Liquid was. The only big difference was the editor. LE's editor features were really one step ahaead.

    Now, coming to MC. In MC I detected a lot of editing posibilities that never were realised in LE. Maybe I have to send the credits for this to Boris. But fact is, it is there.

    And now MC in 64 bit version, equals that point in Studio as well. And I think that MC is far more a professional tool for video and broadcast editing than Studio ever will be. But that is not a disadvantage of Studio. Studio serves a complete other public than MC does. And I still think: LE did too.

    I still have LE in my "old" system. I had to buy a new system for MC only. Probably, I would have to do so for NextGen too.

     

  •  11-16-2011, 22:25 500022 in reply to 499947

    Re: What's after Avid Liquid?

    U'mm... after nearly three years of "its coming... its coming"...Avid's Kirk Arnold stated that there would be no Liquid replacement. The Phrase NextGen was first coined to describe the direct replacement for Liquid originally announced by Jan Piros at the last Liquid immersion (I was there).

    I do not believe the product delivered as Avid Studio years later is consistent with the vision presented to the community at that last Liquid event. Anyway ,we were provided with an affordable means to acquire a far more capable product. 

    I am happy with the end result.

  •  11-17-2011, 15:13 500141 in reply to 500022

    Re: What's after Avid Liquid?

    TVJohn:

    I am happy with the end result.

    Yes, and I am too!!!  MC is great and the upgrade path is very generous.

    Long after Jan Piros, there was a lot of discussion about Liquid vs "NextGen".  The upshot was that Liquid would not have a replacement, it would not have further development (after version 7.2), and "NextGen" was continuing to be developed as a new, rewritten from the ground up product.  The "NextGen" name was coined by George Angeludis (sverkalo) at some point years ago and it stuck, although never ackowledged officially by Avid.

    Despite the similarity of the name, Avid Studio is not an update to Pinnacle Studio.  The two are completely separate.  Pinnacle Studio is still being continuously worked on, with PS 15 being the current version.  We now have a choice of three levels of editing programs within the Avid family, namely PS 15 at the consumer level, AS 1.1 as the intermediate editor and MC6 as the flagship professional editor.  To me, it appears that Liquid was a bit closer to MC, while the current version of AS is a bit closer to PS.

    Liquid is gone and we are all moving on. Crying

  •  11-17-2011, 15:59 500152 in reply to 499930

    Re: What's after Avid Liquid?

    How do you get that upgrade to MC 6 for $149?
  •  11-17-2011, 16:24 500154 in reply to 500152

    Re: What's after Avid Liquid?

    You had to have purchased and registered an upgrade from MC Ver 5.0 to Ver 5.5 during the period 15 October 2011 to 14 November 2011. This entitled users to then get a free upgrade to MC Ver 6. So you had to have already been running MC Ver 5 prior to 15 October 2011.
  •  11-17-2011, 17:23 500161 in reply to 500154

    Re: What's after Avid Liquid?

    I purchased the upgrade from MC 5.0 to MC 5.5 for $149 on Nov. 6th and registered it on Nov. 8th.  Due to some mis-communications with Avid, it took two days and an intervention by Marianna (bless her!) to get the registration done.  I am now eligible to download MC 6 for free by Dec.15th.
  •  11-18-2011, 0:00 500191 in reply to 500161

    Re: What's after Avid Liquid?

    *I would consider Edius, Premiere Pro, Vegas Pro as intermediate level products. Avid Studio does not currently match up to those.
  •  11-18-2011, 1:27 500201 in reply to 500191

    Re: What's after Avid Liquid?

    TVJohn:
    *I would consider Edius, Premiere Pro, Vegas Pro as intermediate level products. Avid Studio does not currently match up to those.

    You are right, John.  I was only referring to the lineup within the Avid family where AS is in the middle of the three.  And I did say that it was closer to the consumer level Pinnacle Studio in its current incarnation.  It does have potential to become much more, but time will tell.

    And in your list, don't leave out EditShare Lightworks (http://www.lightworksbeta.com/), the very powerful freeware NLE program.

  •  01-24-2012, 1:25 511361 in reply to 500191

    Re: What's after Avid Liquid?

    TVJohn:
    *I would consider Edius, Premiere Pro, Vegas Pro as intermediate level products.

    Admitedly I have gravitated into the Vegas orbit. They have upped their game since version 9. My big complaint was their plugin API in 9 was mickey-mouse but that has completely been replaced now. They have keep their upgrades resonably priced and have delivered lots of new stuff with every relase. I still have Liquid on the system but I am seriously considering selling one of my licenses. Does Liquid still have any dollar value or is that pretty much gone?

  •  02-02-2012, 21:52 513065 in reply to 511361

    Re: What's after Avid Liquid?

    bigrock:

    Does Liquid still have any dollar value or is that pretty much gone?

    I would suggest to check on eBay to give you an idea of what the market for Liquid might be like.

  •  02-10-2012, 6:10 514481 in reply to 513065

    Re: What's after Avid Liquid?

    Also, Liquid may have value as a "trade-in,"  as part of a cross-grade promotion by a NLE vendor for a reduced price switch to their product.

    Liquid was initially introduced/positioned as direct competition to Avid. Thus it would make no sense (to Avid) to have two produces at the same level,  but different price points, so Liquid as we know it had to die. Avid Studio was positioned to fill the gap between Pinnacle Studio and MC, and sort of fulfill the promise of a NextGen.

    .AVCHD support is what killed Liquid for me and prompted my switch to EDIUS. (But I do miss Hollywood Effects.)

  •  03-14-2012, 4:54 521677 in reply to 514481

    Re: What's after Avid Liquid?

    Hi all...

    To date I am using:

    Premier CS5

    Vegas 11

    MC6

    and my old favorite standby which serves me very well and still is the standard bearer< IMHO, as to how an editing system should interface with the user.  In light of using the other systems I still find the Liquid interface provides the most pratical and logical set of tools.

     

    Later,

    Andy

     

  •  03-14-2012, 4:56 521678 in reply to 521677

    Re: What's after Avid Liquid?

    BTW, for anyone still  using Liquid, my "Liquid Edition Tips" page is still alive and well at:

    http://www.ulti-media.com/edition_and_liquid_tips.htm

    Andy

  •  03-14-2012, 9:10 521720 in reply to 521678

    Re: What's after Avid Liquid?

    There is still some value as a crossgrade if you do not own MC or other related NLE. AND if you have to deal with old fuses....
  •  03-14-2012, 11:23 521753 in reply to 521720

    Re: What's after Avid Liquid?

    Probably a quarter of my work is still done with Liquid, and I have NO PLANS to get rid of it. It will remain a useful tool for me as far out as I can see.

    Virtually all the other work is done with MC 5.5. While I have the upgrade to 6, I'm just sitting on it. 5.5 is very quick and stable on my present main system. 6 might not even run without spending quite a bit of money to modify that PC, or purchase another one. The capital I have is needed for other equipment (sound gear, cameras etc.)

    Liquid is a very good software package.

  •  04-02-2012, 10:22 524686 in reply to 521753

    Re: What's after Avid Liquid?

    I really did want to feel happy with MC5 — let's admit it, there are features that it will do much better than AL7... (f'rinstance blur out a car's registration plate and automatically follow it as it moves)... but try as I might, I just couldn't get my head round it.  I tried the approach mentioned above of starting a new project with it and just staying slogging at it until it all becomes familiar... but the frustrations just became too dispiriting, and the project began to run very late.  In the end the only way to get it back towards its deadline was to abandon all that I'd done on MC and start afresh (at speed!) with AL.

    Colleagues who use MC on a daily basis say I was a fool, and should have stuck with it, forgetting the 'AL7 way' and learning anew.  But it didn't work like that — there were so many ways where MC seemed to be so inefficient.  As an example, if you want to freeze an image in AL7 you just position the cursor, right click and select 'Freeze Frame' (or just press the 'minus' key on the top keyboard row)... the rest of the clip is now the freeze frame, and you can pull it out to whatever length you want.  It takes no more than 2 seconds.  With MC it involves (something like) marking an In and Out, and exporting that to a stated duration in the Bin, and bringing that back into the timeline — after a few of them I was screaming!

    I've now sold the machine with MC on it to a young lad for whom it will be a first-time editor, and so he won't have the AL7 'baggage' that I had.  I'm still using AL7 professionally, and finding it does all that I (generally) need, quickly and efficiently (mostly — I've posted elsewhere about problems with Exporting to File from an HD timeline!), and haven't regretted keeping it... so far!

  •  04-13-2012, 17:04 526602 in reply to 524686

    Re: What's after Avid Liquid?

    Graeme Aldous:

    ... there were so many ways where MC seemed to be so inefficient.  As an example, if you want to freeze an image in AL7 you just position the cursor, right click and select 'Freeze Frame' (or just press the 'minus' key on the top keyboard row)... the rest of the clip is now the freeze frame, and you can pull it out to whatever length you want.  It takes no more than 2 seconds.  With MC it involves (something like) marking an In and Out, and exporting that to a stated duration in the Bin, and bringing that back into the timeline — after a few of them I was screaming!

    You are doing it the "old way". Many old MC editors still use this old fashion way to do a still image or a slow motion.

    - The best and faster method is to use a Timewarp effet (Effect Palette / Timewarp / Timewarp)

    - Open the Motion Effect Editor, the Speed Graph, then set the speed to 0.

    After that, you just have to save the newly freeze frame effect to a bin by dragging it in a bin for future use. You'll just have to drag and drop the effect to the clip in the timeline to instantly freeze a clip.

     

  •  04-14-2012, 2:01 526651 in reply to 526602

    Re: What's after Avid Liquid?

    Sylvain —

    A nice tip.  Thanks... but it's too late now.  The machine has a new owner.

    I was only using the Freeze Frame as an example.  I can't recall what they all were now, but there were a number of little operational niggles that left me with the constant feeling that "I could do this so much more efficiently in Liquid".  Agreed, there are also times when I think "I wish I could do so-and-so..." when I probably could have done in MC, but overall I never enjoyed an editing session in MC like I (still) do in AL7.

  •  04-14-2012, 2:50 526652 in reply to 526651

    Re: What's after Avid Liquid?

    Yea, it's too late. I just wanted to show you that there was a much faster way for your example.

    I understand what you are saying about Liquid and MC. I was a big fan of Liquid and used it so much!

    But I had the chance to learn Avid back in 2000. So, when I crossgraded to MC in version 3.0. I was not lost at all.

    I am now so fast editing with MC. I am also now a news editor for the national channel here. So, you have to be really quick.

    There is so many ways to do the same thing. And you need to use a lot the keyboard shortcuts.

    At first, I was missing many little things from Liquid, but after some time, I realised that there was also a way (or many ways) to do these things in MC.

    Some examples:

    - In Liquid, you can select a clip in the timeline and move it with ctrl + arrow keys. In MC, you can also select the clip and move it left and right with the < and > keys. Or up and down by dragging the clips holding shif + ctrl

    - They both have slip and slide options.

    - They both have a way to use an audio timewarp. In MC, it's an audio effect in the audio suite.

    - In MC, you can snap to right a clip using ctrl + alt. In Liquid, you have to cycle through the option using alt while dragging a clip.

    - In MC, to expand a track, you have to ctrl + clic between two tracks. Or activate the tracks and use the K and L keys.

    I can go on and on. And there is other things that Liquid lacks, and a few things MC lacks, like Background rendering.

     

  •  04-14-2012, 3:28 526654 in reply to 526652

    Re: What's after Avid Liquid?

    Even if it is too late but I get the feeling that a lot of MC users, having problems to understand or to learn How To Do, don't visit the MC Forums. There is a huge amount of info, tutorials and tips and you can ask other users and moderators, how to do things.

    Of course, when you are in business with video editing, you don't have time allways to sort things out.

    It looks as if we forgot how we struggled to learn driving our car, long time ago. That was not easy too and we needed that car for our shopping, traveling or looking for a partner.....

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