Paint jobs and horns aside, I expect the software to do what it says it will do. That's why I paid the money to Pinnacle for the update. I'm going to hold off unintalling 14 and reinstalling 12.  Wasted too much time on this, and the object is to get the new software to work.  I hope the tech support people have an answer.  I called them with another problem yesterday (the menu system does not work with my project, but it does work with simplistic project w/o PIP, etc.) and their advice was to "play with it, we don't know why it doesn't work."  Good grief.

Quote: Can you describe in more detail what you did to create the disc using Roxio, and how it failed.

 I had made the disc image in the burn-to-disc option of Studio, and then tried to have Roxio access that.  I have not tried making an ISO file, but I do not see any option for making an ISO file on STudio 14.

 In answer to the JKoch question about Studio 12:   Once the project was opened and saved in 14, Studio 12, which I have not uninstalled, will not allow opening the project. 

 Looking back over the thread, I don't spot anyone saying that they have succeeded in burning DVD DLs with Studio 14.  Has anyone done it successfully?  

I had made the disc image in the burn-to-disc option of Studio, and then tried to have Roxio access that.  I have not tried making an ISO file, but I do not see any option for making an ISO file on STudio 14.

What do you mean when you say "tried to have Roxio access that"?  A Video_TS folder should appear like any other folder in an Explorer view of your drive.  Which module of Roxio were you using when you tried to access "the image."   (The option for making an ISO file in S14 is found in Make Disc settings under "image type."  There should be a choice for either Video_TS Folder or ISO file.)

An update: Techncial Support emailed me a link to
http://avid.custkb.com/avid/app/selfservice/search.jsp?DocId=212487


I had alread reviewed these FAQs and tried their suggestions.  The one thing I had not tried was burning the DVD RDL at low speed.  I tried that and the disc was unreadable after the burn completed.  Same result.

So I have recontacted Technical Support to ask "what now?" 

I echo someone else's post: Has ANYONE successfully burned a project on DVD RDL a disc?

Thanks for pointing out to me where the ISO setting can be found under Make Disc.

 

Yes, the Video_TS file is visible in explorer, but no files would show up in Roxio 10.  When I get back home, I'll try making an ISO image & then burning it to a DL with Roxio.

 

ADDED 10/31:  I created an iso file with Studio.  Then opened Roxio 10 BUrn Disc Image.  It came back with same message as did Studio 14: " Please insert a blank or rewritable DVD into the Pioneer...Drive."  Same result with both Verbatim & Sony DVD+R DL discs

DaveBuerger:

I echo someone else's post: Has ANYONE successfully burned a project on DVD RDL a disc?

Some answer to this might spare lots of trouble.  Question 2 is whether anyone can burn a Studio 14 ISO to a DVD+R DL using any other disc burning utility.

The micro crowd that follows Avid corporate news carefully (the off-topic Forum thread draws zero replies) will not be surprised by the problems that attend Studio, except that Studio 14 seems almost sabotaged with new problems afflicting old functions, where by logic one would expect few.  GM was not as ham-handed with Olds or Pontiac in their final days.  Of course, a $75 software can't get the warranty or recall support of a $25k auto, and Cunard Lines would not refund the First Class passengers who became indignant when the power and plumbing failed on an ill-fated voyage in 1912.  The only consolations were music, deck chairs, and free drinks, with unlimited ice.

Where there is life there is hope, a saying goes.  But chronic financial problems and expense & stall reductions take their toll.  If Studio 14 users do get instructions or a patch to beat this problem, fine (woo-hoo, eureka, by Jove, etc).  However, without wishing to be a doomsayer, and if time is important, the fastest solution may be to export your projects to AVI, MJPEG, or HDV files; import those into Studio 12 or another application, recreate your menus / chapters; and then create your disc images, and burn your DLs.

The Tech Support people recommended this: "Please try to choose the option "Create as disc content but dont burn" to save the project as an image file first then use the option "Burn from previously create disc content" to burn it int..." I re-rendered the whole project to file, then re-burned at slow speed to a DVD RDL.

The burned disc was unreadable on my PC and TV's DVD player. So I bounced it back to Tech Support.

Frankly, it's looking pretty bleak.  I'm not happy - I've spent a small fortune on additional software for Pinnacle.  What a step backwards. 

Here's an update:  I have received no help from Pinnacle Tech Support; they come up with suggestions such as they gave Dave.  Pioneer e-mailed me to send the drive to them for service.  Instead I went to Best Buy, where I had bought the drive.  The Geek Squad at my local store was VERY helpful.  He was able to use it to burn a double-layer data disk with no problem.  I suggested he try an iso file.  Came back a few minutes later and said drive is defective; we'll take it back.  All they had was Pioneer & Toshiba portables, and a selection of LG drives; LG not being my favorite brand, I bought a Toshiba portable.  Tried burning the previously created Video_TS image, and got the same result:  insert blank or writable disk.  I had made with Studio an iso file with Studio.  Brought it up in Roxio 10 and it started to burn.  After a few minutes, a runtime error message popped up and the process stopped.  There was vbisibly some recording on the disc, but not much.

Am I to understand that Studio 12 would burn DL's with no problems?  If that is the case, how do I convert a Studio 14 project back to Studio 12?  Studio 12 refuses to open a project made with a later version

 

RJR:

  Came back a few minutes later and said drive is defective; we'll take it back. 

Too bad you were unable to see if the BB Geek was able to burn an ISO to a DL using any other external drive on hand.   Perhaps if you brought the Studio 14 ISO to the store on a portable USB drive.  The fellow would have been unlikely to "bad mouth" any particular brand of DLs on the store's shelves (which Memorex tends to dominate), but it would also have been interesting to see if outcomes changes with use of Verbatim or Sony, as opposed to Memorex, DL media.   The drive itself may indeed not have been defective.

RJR:

 All they had was Pioneer & Toshiba portables, and a selection of LG drives; LG not being my favorite brand, I bought a Toshiba portable.  Tried burning the previously created Video_TS image, and got the same result:  insert blank or writable disk.  I had made with Studio an iso file with Studio.  Brought it up in Roxio 10 and it started to burn.  After a few minutes, a runtime error message popped up and the process stopped.  There was vbisibly some recording on the disc, but not much.

Have you discounted the theory that the Roxio driver may be impaired by or conflict with the Studio 14 one?  Does the same problem not exist with a DVD SL?  Just as a test, you could cut the bitrate setting in Make Movie enough to squeeze it on one disk.  Then see if the image burns OK to SL disc.

RJR:

 Am I to understand that Studio 12 would burn DL's with no problems?  If that is the case, how do I convert a Studio 14 project back to Studio 12?  Studio 12 refuses to open a project made with a later version.

Studio 12.1 will burn to DL, provided a PC is not afflicted by other driver issues and the burner is in good order.  At least in my case, the brand of DL media is also a potent determinant of the outcome.

Do you have a soft media player that can read ISOs on a hard drive?  If so, that may be a way to test whether the Studio 14 ISO is itself a culprit in the case.  If the ISO plays OK, you might not need to create it all over again in Studio 12.1, but perhaps simply use Studio 12.1, or any other utility, to burn the disc.

If that does not work, then you would have to create a DL image using S12.1

To import a Studio 14 project into Studio 12.1 may be impossible, but it should be no trouble to export the contents of your Studio 14 project as an AVI or MPEG2 file, then import that file into Studio 12.1, create your menu and chapter points, and then burn to DL image, and then burn the image to disc.  However, if Studio 14 is on your system, I cannot guess whether that has any toxic effect on how Studio 12.1 would communicate with the burner. 

Finally, if all else fails, you should be able to import the AVI or MPEG2 file exported from S12.1 into Roxio and create a disc with it.

No, it should not have to be so complicated, but...

I didn't think to as the Geek whether his iso had been prepared using Studio.  He suggested trying to burn with the anti-virus and firewall turned off (McAfee).  I haven't tried this yet.

 New development.  My desktop, which only has Studio 12 & Roxio 9, also had a bunch of downloaded Charlie Chaplin movies.  I brought some 145 minutes worth into Studio 12, and tried burning them with the Toshiba portable. (I wasn't about to put together a production that involved much effort).  A Verbatim disk came back with the message insert blank or rewritable disk.  A Sony burned a usable DVD of CHaplin, 1 hr 40 min. 

JKoch:  I am trying your idea about converting my "lost" project. Thanks for taking the time to respond at length.

 I wonder if a failure to start a burn somehow leaves a DVD non-blank???

UPDATE at 10:15 PM, 11/3.  JKoch, thanks for the solution.  I made an avi file of the project I had been working on.  Tried to burn it through Roxio 10 & got an "unspecified error."  Then I tried loading it into Studio 12.  It loaded.  Make disc plodded along, and eventually returned a compiler error, but a redo produced a double layer disk of my project.

I am compelled to conclude that Studio 14 cannot burn double layer disks.  Luckily, I did not remove STudio 12 when I installed Studio 14.  Mark: please convey to your techies:  there must be a glitch in the program.

I also want to thank the other forumites who weighed in with ideas.

UPDATE at 8:15 am 11/4:  I tried to make more copies this morning from the Studio 12 image I created last night.  A Verbatim DVD DL & a Sony DVD DL gave the same message calling for a blank or rewritable disk.  A second Sony disk is burning fine. Go figure???

 

Another way to "import" a Studio 14 project into Studio 12 for burning would to be to

• use the VTS option for disc image creation in Studio 14,
• change the suffix of the stream files from VOB to MPG,
• import the mpg files into a new Studio 12.1 timeline.
• create your menu and chapter points,
• burn to disc image (the rendering is quite fast if you use the same format specs that the VOB / MPG files have),
• burn the disc.

If a DVD+R DL fails to burn correctly, very often it is then useless for video disc creation.  Some times it will burn correctly on a 2nd or 3rd trial with the same project.  But it may not, even through Windows Explorer won't show any files on it.  It may still be possible to use  the failed but empty DL as a data disc, but SL discs are cheaper and safer for that, and 4 GB is usually enough for data archiving.

DVD+RE DLs would be neat, but don't seem to exist, perhaps because they would be too expensive and appeal only to a niche.

BD-REs exist in both 25 GB SL and 50 GB DL.  Fortunately, the R-SLs are reliable enough and support about 2.5 hrs of HQ HD, or even more at lower resolution or bitrates.  Studio 12.1 handles BD SL and DL.  Might Studio 14 have trouble with both?  A failed BD+R-DL would be a mighty expensive way to add to the coaster dump.

DVD-R DL discs are scarce (sold only by Verbatim, Philips, and JVC?) and cost more than DVD+R DLs, but are the only type that never failed me.  This may be because, being expensive, I have used them less, and the roulette wheel just happened to be in my favor.  Or it may be because they have a higher manufacture standard or because the "-" format is less fail prone, at least in the case of some burners.

However, the question still stands?  Has any Studio 14 user burned any project over 5gb to any sort of DL media?

Further update.  Going through the avi conversion and then opening the project in Studio 12 has caused the sound to go out of synch---runs about 3 seconds ahead of the video.

 

As an aside, my son bought STudio 14 and couldn't get it to install.  Found the antivirus software was excluding it.

Clearly, "Technical Support" is in a major state of denial on this issue.  Their response was this:

"Regarding your concern.Can you please browse for the contents of the burned disc and check if it contains a audio_ts and video_ts folder.If the video_ts folder contains a vob or ifo files then try burning the project on another brand of dvd disc."

I patiently replied that "unreadable" literally means unreadable.  The PC cannot read any content on the disc even though it (and all the other burns) successfully completed that process.  The discs were from the same batch of Memorex discs that successfully worked with version 12.1.

Ball is back in their court, but it apears to be going nowhere.

It looks like we have a successful burn of a DL disc with S14 here. 

gjslaw:

It looks like we have a successful burn of a DL disc with S14 here. 

Perhaps, but woven into an NTSC-PAL issue, plus the amount of bitrate reduction to fit a project to disc.  What was the size of the image that S14 accepted for burning?  If other S14 users intentionally create a smaller disc image, or burn a project of known 6.5 GB size to a DL, will Studio 14 then burn them?

What was the size of the image that S14 accepted for burning?  If other S14 users intentionally create a smaller disc image, or burn a project of known 6.5 GB size to a DL, will Studio 14 then burn them?

Well, a dual layer is about 8.5 GB so it is safe to assume that the image should be smaller.

To those that has issues with the burning to DL, does it happens to projects without a menu?

With S10 I had made a DVD-R DL made from 22 separately edited chapters output as mpeg files. These were brought back onto the timeline for the addition of the joining transitions and menus for making the DVD.

In the interests of the forum, or to put it another way, to settle my curiosity, I put those 22 chapter files on the timeline of S14 (no transitions or menus). The total length was 147min 36secs.

I put a Verbatim 4x -R DL disc in the drive even though I was only intending to create but not burn. It was indicated that I would use 148min with 1min available and a quality of 81% which is reasonable considering the length of the video. After rendering and creating the final file the size of the Video TS folder was found to be 6.8 Gb. This compares favorably with the 7.08Gb for the S10 version with menu etc but is nothing like 8.5Gb.

Full of anticipation I decided to create from content and lo and behold ......... in a few seconds it was complete and the disc popped out.

Pity there was nothing on it.

There was one other variable and that was that the S10 version (which did burn) was done on XP while this attempt was on Win 7. This version of Win 7 is new so I ought to try a normal DVD burn as well.

 

 

in a few seconds it was complete and the disc popped out.

We'll run some tests here and post back results.

What Mr. Hunt experienced--a few second completion-- I also experienced.

 I am using XP

In answer to a question above, the projects I tried do not have a menu.  They were composed of stills and video, but no menus or chapters.

 Why doesn't Pinnacle Support try making  a project and burning to a DL disc?

I'll try to get DVD DLs for the lab and see if we can test this better.

RJR:

  Why doesn't Pinnacle Support try making  a project and burning to a DL disc?

The suspense is killing me. I just recorded Batman Returns. I'll see if S14 will burn this 140 minutes to a DL disc.

Me too.       Will Batman return? ........... see next weeks episode.

 

I'll also ask HQ to test out their DL burning capabilities for 14. Please standby.

JKoch:

 Wouldn't one think that the disc burning features would be the part that changed least? 

Well, someone has had their fingers in the pie. The following is how the disc burning speeds are offered in S12 and S14.

S12:

4X
6X
8X
16X

S14:

16X
8X
6X
4X

Basically, in S12 the numbers are ascending down, in S14 the numbers are ascending up. Might not mean a thing, but there have been some changes in the disc burning features.

With a single layer disc, I can get the numbers to show up in S12 and S14. With a dual layer disc, I can get the numbers to show up in S12 only. S14 has never shown me the numbers , it has only shown me the words low, med high, auto.

towbar:

I'll see if S14 will burn this 140 minutes to a DL disc.

I just finished watching my disc, so I guess I can say that S14 was capable of burning 7.45 Gb to a DL Sony disc. The project was created from .avi, and was complete with chapters.

I will say that the "make movie" feature is real slow to recognize the disc. It took on average about 30 seconds before the program actually recognized that a disc was inserted. IMHO, you should wait until a disc is completely recognized from within the program before you proceed to burning a disc. Strange things happened in previous versions if you rushed the burn, and I suspect this may still hold true with S14.