So Smartsound claim that they wil not be amending the Studio plugin, but does that really stop Pinnacle from creating the plugin for S14?

Or  is it a copyright or other legal issue?

Maybe Pinnacle does not have the expertize to write the plugin.   

The ball seems to fully back in Pinnacle's court, so what can you do for us, your paying customers, Pinnacle?   Please give us the FULL STORY about the Pinnacle/Smartsound debarcle!

I will not be purchasing S14 without a guarantee that Smartsound can be integrated into S14.

Tony P:

Oh, and I would pay for a Smartsound plug in.

The (free) SmartSound plugin for CS4 doesn't work properly. I hope that any plugin developed for S14 would be more reliable.

Timeless Moments:

That's what we were told about S12, it still worked. So has anybody actually had a go at bringing in Smartsound to S14 using the pinnacle music exe file and an old version of Quick tracks? I don't have a copy yet so am not able to play around with it myself.

I did.

I installed Pinnacle Music.exe and Quicktracks and it didn't work i.e. Smartsound doesn't show up in the dropdown list, there is still only Scorefitter.

What worked in S12, no longer does in S14.

I have 'lost' the use of many functions from previous issues of Studio and now it looks like Smartsound is going to RIP for S14. I have not been able to use some very good additional titles in Studio 9 Premium pack along with some HFX, in Studio 12 as the content will not transfer.

Scorefitter or what ever it is going to be called now has never been developed like Smartsound has for the quantity of tracks etc so it leaves a very sparse area for music in S14. It seems, for me, that S12 is the end of the ride for me.

Three comments:

• If the ball is now in Smartsound's court, I don't see why they don't develop the plug-in.  I said the same thing when we were loudly discussing this for S12.  It seems to me that Smartsound has made a lot of sales as a result of Studio.  Develop a plug-in, make it available for free, and even provide Queen of Sheeba and a few other songs.  People will notice the superior quality over Scorefitter and will spend the money on Smartsound CDs.
• Obviously I don't know how difficult (and expensive) it is to develop the plug-ins.  Maybe there are technical difficulties.  Remember the BIAS SoundSoap debacle?  It really didn't work right, and that was because of the way Studio interfaced with it.  Maybe Smartsound has some reason for not doing this.  Maybe it wouldn't be too hard to support "quicktracks" but Smartsound doesn't want to do it if it can't support more functionality, such as the multi-layer music.(?)  There were comments about "old" software, Vista, and other items not playing nice together.  Apparently, for now, they don't see it as being worth their effort.  Pitty.
• This makes it very unlikely that I will upgrade to S14.  There will have to be a lot of glowing reviews from regulars on this forum before I'll even be tempted.  It also, for the foreseeable future, makes me less likely to add to my Smartsound collection.  I can't (shouldn't) spend any money right now anyway, but this will probably cause me to simply stop spending money on my video editing software for a long, long time.  I guess I'll see what mood I'm in about 6 months from now.

 

Personally, I prefer to set up my SmartSound tracks in Sonicfire Pro 5 and then import into either Studio or Liquid, whichever I am using at the time.  This gives me more flexibility for the slight inconvenience of importing, rather than working from inside either of the two programs.  Sonicfire Pro 5 is still free if you buy a SmartSound disk.

I haven't decided if I need to upgrade to Studio 14, but not having built-in SmartSound capability is not one of the deciding factors for me.

Link to the "free" Sonicfire Pro 5 purchasing information: http://www.smartsound.com/sonicfire/purchase.html

My thoughts exactly.

In order for us as a business to upgrade there would have to be some USP (unique selling points) for S14. So far the only thing I have seen is the improved AVCHD/BD output but this has yet to be confirmed and as yet only a tiny percentage of our customers are asking for BD. I have not heard if the menu system has been changed or at least had the bugs fixed which is a time constraint on us albeit minor. However the loss of Smartsound is a serious blow to the speed, flexibility and quality of the audio track workflow. The bundled Scorefitter is derisory in comparison and even if it were as good as Smartsound the Scorefitter cupboard is poorly stocked to say the least.

I don't know whose fault it is, Smartsound or Avid and I don't really care. As a consumer I am disappointed that it will no longer be supported and as a business owner I am flabbergasted by the stupidity of the decision. A good audio track is by far and away the second most important part of a film after the video itself. All the $1800 worth of techno flash is a sprat to catch a mackerel, it adds little to the overall film and is fun for the hobbyist or perhaps the youtube show-off. Take a look at a BBC documentary such as Planet Earth, show me the transitions, any transitions, show me the stop motion or animated titles, show me psychedelic sunsets of African vistas complete with an artificial lens flare or hall of mirrors effect - I've never seen it. Now look again and salivate at the phenomenal videography and feel your mood change in time with the score and well.... I think you get my point.

One day the people at Avid and other companies will listen to their customers rather than trying to alienate them, when that day comes there will be bonuses all around at Mountain View as sales skyrocket, the way they are going now it's more likely to be P45s.

 

Ian

Timeless Moments:

One day the people at Avid and other companies will listen to their customers rather than trying to alienate them, when that day comes there will be bonuses all around at Mountain View as sales skyrocket, the way they are going now it's more likely to be P45s.

Ian

Unfortunately it is "us" customers who vote with our billfolds for the "bling" and "wow" in the programs (and not only in NLE's).  The real meat and potatoes are typically taken for granted and it is the shiny, sparkly things that seem to sway the decision to buy.

You, as a professional user, seem to be in the minority in the Studio customer base and I can't see Avid (or Pinnacle) changing their marketing strategy to something more sensible (like improved and more useful features).  One reason that I use both Studio and Liquid for editing is that Studio  (without using the extra "bling") is very quick for simple, fast edits, while Liquid (also without its "bling") gives me better media management and key-frame control of effects for large, more complicated projects.

For me personally, I wish I hadn't purchased the 14 upgrade, I should of invested in Smartsounds disk that I could use in 12, from what little info there is on the sound generator in 14, it sounds (pun) like it's a joke again ...

I was thinking, how much would I be willing to pay for a smartsounds plug-in for 14 ... maybe $49 bucks ...

 I find I do use my limited smartsounds collection in every project I make, not scorefitter or whatever is in 14 ....

I am just a simple home user but my videos would not be the same without Smartsound and I (as last time with S12) agree with Ian that the major part of Studios appeal is Smartsound. Would you buy a car with out the engine?

I would think the home user in the majority requires a good reliable editing function to edit the home videos from the family holiday and to add the odd title and background music to help the show along.

As I said in an earlier post this is the ride where I get off before the end, I have spent enough so far for home movies. Ian you are right S12 will produce HD output and this is enough for me so why go on?

rickd:

I was thinking, how much would I be willing to pay for a smartsounds plug-in for 14 ... maybe $49 bucks ...

Coincidentally, $49 is what the Sonicfire Pro 5 costs with a coupon for $49 toward a SmartSound music disk.  In other words, the SF5 program is free.  It's not exactly a plug-in, but you can do more with it than with QuickTracks in Studio 12.  You can import your video into SF5 and get it the right length and beat before re-importing into Studio.  Two extra steps, but it works and shouldn't keep you from upgrading to Studio 14.

Maybe someone who has downloaded S 14 already can comment on Soundstage in S 14.

I've been waffling for two years re: whether or not to stick with Avid/Pinnacle and have finally arrived at a conclusion.  I'll continue to use S12 and WILL NOT upgrade to S14 or any future Studio release.  I'll wait to see what NextGen offers IF it is released in the next 4-6 months.  Otherwise I will very likely switch to Adobe.

I like the user-friendly interface and all-in-one architecture of Studio but as my needs grow and change I want to be able to upgrade to more capable versions without the hassle of learning new interfaces and workflows.  I'm becoming skeptical that Avid/Pinnacle can/will accommodate that.

sfchuck:

I like the user-friendly interface and all-in-one architecture of Studio but as my needs grow and change I want to be able to upgrade to more capable versions without the hassle of learning new interfaces and workflows.  I'm becoming skeptical that Avid/Pinnacle can/will accommodate that.

I wonder if staying with Pinnacle will let you keep the same interface over time.  Even the current S 14 has a different "look" and from watching the videos, some functions like importing media are totally different.  If you wait too long (another one or two versions), the GUI might be just as foreign and require re-learning as if you switched to another NLE such as NextGen, Adobe, Vegas, etc.

jjn:

So... who has actually used the new music program in S14? Is it still Scorefitter?

To my eyes and ears, it appears and sounds identical to the tool in S12.

Well, that sux to say the least. The Scorefitter stuff reminded me of the midi music from my Commodore 64. 

Tony P:

jjn:

So... who has actually used the new music program in S14? Is it still Scorefitter?

To my eyes and ears, it appears and sounds identical to the tool in S12.

Well, that sux to say the least. The Scorefitter stuff reminded me of the midi music from my Commodore 64. 

It certainly isn't up to my old Amiga standards!

the GUI might be just as foreign and require re-learning as if you switched to another NLE such as NextGen

There's always the possibility that NextGen (If & when it materialises), will have a similar User Interface to that of S14, which IMO, could be the transition between Studio & NextGen. Everything from the inclusion of Liquid's Render Engine in S10, IMO, points Studio in  that direction.

colour:

the GUI might be just as foreign and require re-learning as if you switched to another NLE such as NextGen

There's always the possibility that NextGen (If & when it materialises), will have a similar User Interface to that of S14, which IMO, could be the transition between Studio & NextGen. Everything from the inclusion of Liquid's Render Engine in S10, IMO, points Studio in  that direction.

For what it's worth, according to 'Rob M' in the Liquid "Off-Topic" discussion forum (Post No. 341732), he claims to have seen the NextGen GUI and apparently it is totally different.

http://forums.pinnaclesys.com/forums/permalink/340781/341732/ShowThread.aspx#341732

Whatever we get as NextGen or maybe by that time, Studio 15, the user interface will NOT be the same as what we have currently in either S 12 or Liquid.  Just look what S 14 has compared to the original Studio DV of about 10 years ago.  Improvements are made and changes get incorporated.  If one wants to keep up, re-learning to use the software is an "occupational hazard".

Studio is a consumer biased program. Thats what it has always been and that is its intended market. There are programs like Liquid, MC, Edius, Vegas Pro that are aimed toward professional and business users.

Pinnacle will make decisions as to the direction and features of Studio based on what it believes will attract the targeted market. For 90% of prospective purchasers, the in-house music module may suffice. "Power" users may have to accept that their needs and requests may not be insynch with where the product is going.

I wonder how many purchasers use Studio four or five times then realize that maybe Windows Movie Maker works quicker for them.

Studio has to be basic enough for someone to be able to output a vid or utube within a hour of so. I would imagine that writing a plugin that could satisfy the power user without crashing the computer or brain of a first-time buyer could be a pitfall that an outside vendor might be inclined to avoid.

Sonicfire sells a wonderful application that allows a collector of their music to use their entire collection and enter the cool world of moodmaping.

There are times that graduation is the normal course of life. 

Igor

My Quote:

a similar User Interface to that of S14,

Your Quote:

the user interface will NOT be the same as what we have currently in either S 12 or Liquid.

he claims to have seen the NextGen GUI and apparently it is totally different.

.....To Liquid (That's been known for a  long time), but not S14?

 

There have been a few people that claim to have seen the future. Early on, there were to be focus groups to provide some feedback. Certainly, everyone invited would have been under a non-disclosure agreement. It is rather unlikely someone would casually violate that agreement. 

I would not put a great deal of stock in such statements. 

colour:

Igor

My Quote:

a similar User Interface to that of S14,

Your Quote:

the user interface will NOT be the same as what we have currently in either S 12 or Liquid.

he claims to have seen the NextGen GUI and apparently it is totally different.

.....To Liquid (That's been known for a  long time), but not S14?

 

Only four more months and then we will see if he or you are right.  Besides, what is wrong with the GUI in Studio 14?  From what I have seen in the demo videos, it looks great.

 I have gone through several interface changes, from Studio 400, to Studio DV, to Premiere 6, to Pinnacle Edition, to Avid Liquid 7, to Studio 12 and am still surviving.  And I plan to survive another change in the future, whether it is NextGen, Studio 15 or some other NLE (Adobe, Sony, Apple, etc.).  In fact, I look forward to a fresh interface, starting with a 64 bit operating system, followed by 64 bit applications.

It's always fun to learn new things.  Now if I only could learn all there is to learn in Windows XP, Studio and Liquid before we make this monumental change, life indeed would be good.

Igor,

I have to admit the "fun" of discovering new stuff even at 55 years of age. If however, I was under production deadlines, and editing work is paid for by the finished piece, then I would be depending on a familiar interface with well trusted tools.

What sort of balance between the great experiment and the gold standard the replacement product achieves remains to be seen 

VE7AXO:

rickd:

I was thinking, how much would I be willing to pay for a smartsounds plug-in for 14 ... maybe $49 bucks ...

Coincidentally, $49 is what the Sonicfire Pro 5 costs with a coupon for $49 toward a SmartSound music disk.  In other words, the SF5 program is free.  It's not exactly a plug-in, but you can do more with it than with QuickTracks in Studio 12.  You can import your video into SF5 and get it the right length and beat before re-importing into Studio.  Two extra steps, but it works and shouldn't keep you from upgrading to Studio 14.

Maybe someone who has downloaded S 14 already can comment on Soundstage in S 14.

 Well , being a video rookie, im not sure I want to try to figure out another program along with studio, but I'll look at it tonight as soon as im done trying to break S14 ... did you know that you can open a project made in S12 that contains Smartsounds tracks and edit  in S14? audio stays intact ... humm ...

 

I just downloaded the User Manual for S14 - only 427 pages

On page 304 is the following:

Using SmartSound®

If you have installed songs in SmartSound format on
your computer, these too will be available for use in the
Background music tool. To switch between your
ScoreFitter and SmartSound song collections, make the
appropriate choice on the Source dropdown list at the
top of the tool window.

 And no mention of Soundstage anywhere!

Can a Pinnacle rep explain this please?

mcperry:

I just downloaded the User Manual for S14 - only 427 pages

On page 304 is the following:

Using SmartSound®

If you have installed songs in SmartSound format on
your computer, these too will be available for use in the
Background music tool. To switch between your
ScoreFitter and SmartSound song collections, make the
appropriate choice on the Source dropdown list at the
top of the tool window.

 And no mention of Soundstage anywhere!

Can a Pinnacle rep explain this please?

Look HERE.