Rich Edgley:

We typically do not discuss future releases.  Sometimes things change as software is being developed, tested, etc, so making forward looking statements is prone to error.   

We have not shipped SmartSounds since Studio 10.  We haven't tested or supported it since then.   

If you want clarification on what SmartSounds said or means, you'd have to ask them. 

 

@ Ian, you wrote:

>>I must say I am surprised by the lack of interest in this thread. 

We all have our interests and hot buttons and sometimes we think that what is important to us is important to everyone.    

 

Rich

Thanks for the reply.

I have asked them for clarification and they stated the information came from Pinnacle, we are now asking you for clarification.

It is really quite simple Rich whether you think it is my HOT BUTTON or not is irrelevant. I will be as succinct as possible:

1. If Pinnacle kills off Smartsound support on the next patch then many many users simply will stop their Studio adventure there and then.

Smartsound CDs are expensive, for example I have over 20 CDs at $200 each, far more than I spend on Studio, and the CDs can be used with other programs. Whilst we learn how to use the other programs the older versions of Studio will keep us ticking over.

If Pinnacle does the above without informing it's user base first that the ability to use Smartsound will be lost in the next patch, well I am no lawyer but I guess that would be akin to sabotage, and in any case I am positive Pinnacle wouldn't treat it's substantial user base in such a way.

So it's really simple, keep Smartsound - keep you old customers, ditch Smartsound and slowly and surely your existing clientele will migrate over to other packages.

I don't know what the problems are between Pinnacle and Smartsound, but IMO it would make good business sense to sort them out and reinstate Smartsound support on the next patch.

Thanks for reading.

Ian

You can add me to the list of those who will abandon Studio if Smartsound capability is dropped, in spite of Studio's advantages in other ways. There's a world of difference between midi (or other forms of electronic music) and real musicians playing real musical instruments. There's little in Scorefitter that is usable for me, except maybe as a novelty (I think I used one short track one time). And the variety of styles, and the ease of adding more songs in a wide range of genres is very appealing, adding a lot of value to my videos.

Until this question of future support came up, I was on the verge of purchasing S12, but now I'm going to wait until this is resolved. If some update to S12 will disable Smartsound, then I'll look into Vegas, Ulead, etc. for the future -- that's how important Smartsound is to me. And any future version (S13, 14, etc) that drops SS will also send me elsewhere. 

And to add one more comment -- 44K songs work fine on my S11 Ultimate, just as they did in 9 and 10 (I don't recall about S8, though Smartsound was a big factor in my purchase of that version -- my first of Studio). 

The simplest solution is the buy Sonic Fire. It is not as convenient as having SmartSound intergrated into Studio, but it offers lots more features and flexibility with the SmartSound tracks. They have specials fairly often that let you buy it at a reasonable price.

I would be disappointed if the integrated feature went away, but I don't think I would stop using Studio. I have way too much time invested in figuring out how to do all the things I want to do.

B

 

Regarding the 44K question, at least I can settle that now, here is the reply from Martha at Smartsound on that issue. Regarding the rest of this thread we just have to wait and see Pinnacle's response.

 Smartsound Wrote 

"ghuck" is mistaken. Quicktracks has always been able to use 44k discs. There's nothing to be read into the sale, other than we like to do sales periodically. When you install a new disc from the Audio Palette, Sound Palette, or Edge Series, you have the option of installing the 22k or 44k files. Just pick the one you want to use. There's no auto install of 22k files, you're prompted for the question when the installation begins."

Ian

I've never been able to get the 44K version to work with studio, I'll have to take anther look at this, I have not tried since the days of studio 9.

But in the bigger note, I wrote smartsound for there perspective of what's going on and here is there official reply;

It's not our decision, Gerry ... it's Avid's.  Starting with Studio 11, Avid
chose to stop supporting Quicktracks (although they allowed workarounds, but
that will end with the next update of version 12).  We are certainly as
disappointed as you are that they have chosen to do this.

If you enjoy the benefits of Quicktracks integrated into your video editing
program, you'll need to change to a different program.  Quicktracks is
integrated and supported in:

Ulead Video Studio
Ulead MediaStudio Pro
CyberLink Power Director
Roxio Easy Media Creator
Avid Liquid

You can see the full list here:
http://www.smartsound.com/support/music.html

Avid has made it clear with version 11 and 12 that they do not intend to move
forward with Quicktracks, but instead use their MIDI tool Scorefitter.

Sharon Morgan
SmartSound Software, Inc.

will end with the next update of version 12

That sounds pretty clear to me.  It sure sounds like a S12.x patch will kill SmartSound.

I wish Pinnacle (Avid) could be that clear in their communications.

I think most of us on the forum are mature enough to understand that sometimes things change, but they could still share some of their INTENTIONS.  Do they intend to continue to "allow" the workaround to work?  Do they intend to make changes that will block SmartSound entirely?

I really hope they listen to the cries of their user base here and that they would intend to support SmartSound as a piece of bolt-on functionality.

If they think they'll get rich when all the users rush to purchase additional Scorefitter music to replace SmartSound, I can assure them that they are sadly mistaken.  They should continue with Scorefitter, and offer add-on Scorefitter tracks, and simply price them appropriately relative to what you can get through SmartSound.  That sounds like a win-win-win scenario to me.

 

P.S.

Thank you for sharing your information with us, Gerry.  We really appreciate it.

Maybe there are sound fonts (a sound table) that make Scorefitter sound better, but I haven't found them yet.

As I said, if they remove it from Studio, I will simply spend a little more time exploring all the extra features I get by using SmartSounds through their Sonicfire software.

B 

bhurst:

As I said, if they remove it from Studio, I will simply spend a little more time exploring all the extra features I get by using SmartSounds through their Sonicfire software.

And as you also admitted, it will be "less convenient."  I think you're being too kind.

To me, it'll be a major degradation of the current workflow.  Lots of times my music inspires adjustments to the video an vice-versa.  I appreciate the power that's available in SonicFire Pro, and I do own a few multi-track albums, but you just can't beat the awesomeness of co-editing your video and music so seamlessly.

I can't believe Pinnacle/Avid didn't get this message loud and clear then the first rumors of SmartSound being dropped (in S11) created an uproar.

 

 

Really now, what's next?  Maybe going back to a dozen canned menus with no ability to edit them or create your own?  Maybe they'll eliminate timeline view and only support storyboard view?  Or they could lock out all non-Pinnacle (a.k.a. free) plug-ins and only allow you to use ones you purchase from them?  (Maybe I better shut up before I give them any ideas.)

I think there is a groundswell of opinion here supporting Smartsound. I would expect this to be the majority view of the user base. We can continue talking about this but as we are all in agreement I believe it is over to AVID/PINNACLE to look into the situation and come back to us with something concrete. My company for one is probably going to postpone V12 until we hear something sweet.

 Ian

Consider the possibility that SS wants too much in licensing fees than Avid feels is fair, and if newer versions of Studio continue to support SS tracks in any way there will be an expensive lawsuit...   

RWP:

Consider the possibility that SS wants too much in licensing fees than Avid feels is fair, and if newer versions of Studio continue to support SS tracks in any way there will be an expensive lawsuit...   

I'm no expert on these things, but I would HOPE that SmartSound doesn't charge a lot (if any) for people to embed SmartSound "QuickTracks" functionality into their product.

It actually creates another customer base for SmartSound, and is something I'd expect them to encourage.  It was never a secret where the music came from.  And we knew where to go if we wanted to buy more.

Selling the *music* would be another story.  But "support" for SmartSound funcitonality - if done well (so SmartSound's reputation is not tarnished) - would benefit both SmartSound and Pinnacle (or any other company) in my view.

Since the days of studio 8, I have always been unwilling to purchase any addition items in Studio that was not usable in other software. I did this so that if the day ever came that I had to Jump ship, my invested money in studio would only be the purchase price of 8, 9, 10, 11 and now 12. Before purchasing the full version of studio 8, I did a lot of shopping around, at the time using mostly Pinnacle Impression DVD pro, and later when I needed sub-titles I used Ulead DVD pro. I always like 'finial cut' the best, my friends use it, and right now I'm thinking they made the right choice, sure it's a $1,200 package, and they had there HD problems, but in Studio land I have spent $600 over the last 5 years, and now there going to make me spend more time to put DVD together, bye having to use sonicfire (which is a really nice piece of software for multi-track editing and making you own variation of music, narrations come out so much better this way, something scorefitter will never be able to do).

I think after 5 years, it's time once again to start reviewing what's out there, (last time I did this it took me 5 months, reviewing and trying 6 different NLE's before deciding studio was in my best interest) but in 5 years there has been a lot of development in video editing software. AVID are you so sure that your software will stand up to the challenge in todays market? I have little time to play games, once I lock in on a piece of software that does what I NEED, I stick with it.

I was hoping studio would be the entry level software and NextGen would be the step up, a NLE with all the gloves off. But it seems Avid is in the quick buck, lock them in world, companies like this usually just shoot them selves in the foot, then try to sell off what they can, which reconfirms that not buying scorefitter add-ons was the right thing to do.

Maybe, Avid and Smartsound are just having a battle over royalty rights, do not know, do not care, if I have to spend 1 hour longer putting my music into studio per disk, one has to ask the question, is studio, easy to use interface saving me one hour over there competitions software?

I think a lack of comment on this from Pinnacle confirms that something is up, and it does not smell good. This has the smell of Prodad Mercilli all over it again, remember this one, Prodad had the installer all ready, but there Tech support were sending out letters like Smartsound saying it's all in Pinnacle hands, the software works, ready and deliverable, but Pinnacle is calling all the shots. The only difference here is Smartsound already was working, and like I have said before, once you put something into a piece of software, you have to leave it there until obsolesce renderer's it worthless, otherwise there is no reason to purchase any more upgrades if I'm going to loose something in the process, I cannot image my world of somebody coming back to make a small change on a previous made DVD, and I have to figure out how to install a previous version of studio to make this change because the current version cannot do something a previous version can do. AND to add misery to this, we all know studio uses a lot of shared install directory's between there version so installing an older version will almost guarantee breaking any newer version in ways I do not want to take time to think about.

Enough ranting for tonight, Justaviking, I fully agree with everything you stated also. (did not want to duplicate you thoughts here but I agree with every one of them).

 

Whether or not leaving Smartsound out of Studio is a deal breaker for me depends on what the "upgrade" offers. I have SF4.x. Yes, using SS within the program is a lot easier, I can still us my SS collection anytime I want.

I have been with Pinnacle since the DV500 days. Went to Edition 5.5 (glad I didn't do the Pro One thing), and upgraded all the way to Liquid 7.x, a very mature product that is still highly functional. I bought Studio 9 because I needed the breakout box. Got it cheap. Bought 10 after it was "fixed", 11 and now 12.

With waiting for "NextGen" to see what that brings, and the way the Liquid users were left with an EOL program with no real date for when a new product will be available, I have looked at other NLE's out there.

I have no brand loyalty. I buy what I think will work for me. And with the possible loss of SS in Studio (a product I find "fun" to use), I'll be keeping my eyes open.

Scorefitter just died. Nothing really came of it. While we have all these wonderful plug ins (Graffiti, Vitascene, etc), videos require music/narration. SS to me is the best that is out there. Take that away would not bode well for a lot of Studio users who have come to depend on it for their videos and of course, the financial investment in the discs.

Avid/Pinnacle, I think you should be clear on your intentions.  You don't have to have SS  integration, but it will turn off a lot of current users.
 

If Pinnacle/Avid drop Smartsound I will be extremely disappointed as I have been using Studio since version 7 and have upgraded with every new release, 8, 9, 9+, 10+, 11 Ultimate & now 12 Ultimate and along the way have purchased many Plug-Ins.

I need Smartsound for my video production and even bought Sonic Fire Pro 4 to enhance the music but could not get on with it.

I am almost 60 years old and do not want to (can't) learn how to use another editing program.

If this is "money related" I would pay for a Smartsound Plug-In if needed.

Paul W. H

Interesting thread. From your first post Ian

THE GOOD NEWS: We have a special offer for you and the thousands of people that have come to rely on the fast and professional music scoring results offered by the SmartSound feature.

Smartsound are selling something here? And they don't seem to be getting along too well with Pinnacle either?

I wonder if they are being as accurate with their statements as they could be?

 

Jon RT,

When I saw that you posted on this redundant SmartSound thread, I got excited and hoped you were providing some clarity (whether good news or bad news).

Sadly, all you did was lock the other thread.

Can anyone at Pinnacle provide some information on this topic?  Nature abhors a vacuum, and we're filling it with rumor and interpretation.  I don't think the facts could be any worse than the rumors.

I am really surprised.  I also got excited about the clarity. My gut feeling is that the forum ate the post. Jon is very responsible and helpful. I don't believe that he just locked the thread. Let's wait and see....

I think Jon locked it so there would not be so many threads talking about the same thing, a reasonable thing to do, and he did reference this thread so it makes since.

I wish Pinnacle would make a statement about this subject, if there in a contract OR a royalty fee payments re-negotiations, just saying something like there in negotiations with smartsound, we all can understand that. But if it's there Marketing Dept. that is driving this decision, well then, when they consolidate there division's after purchasing studio, well they laid off the wrong managers. In large companies that happens, I've been know to write division managers expressing concerns with stuff before. (Have had one vice-president of a not to be named phone company after taking care of a problem wanted to know how I get his person unpublished email address, he was shocked how I did it. he was nice about it.)

What is ironic, to me, in all of this is that 'newer' software releases are intented to make things 'better' - are they not?.  Studio is intended to make creating and editing videos, easier, effortless, and far less time consuming for the average person such as myself.  When they added Smartsound originaly, I thought what a great way to add music to my videos.  And it worked well.  And it was easy, and effortless, and saved people a whole lot of time.  Which was why I invested in purchasing other Smartsound music in the first place.

However, I have wasted SO much time trying to be able to use my investment of Smartsound music with a NEWER version of Studio, that I have yet to even begin editing a video in S12.  I could not even tell you what all the other 'cool new' plug-ins do that came with S12.  I suppose I could give in and just use the limited Scorefitter music provided, but I just hate when things don't work after spending good money on them.

I wish I just knew WHY Pinnacle/Avid does not want the ability of Smartsound to operate as a third party plug in.

Easier, effortless, time-saving......

Guys

 I am trying to get a clear answer on this for you. I just do not have it at this time.

 

 

Rich Edgley:

@ Ian, you wrote:

>>I must say I am surprised by the lack of interest in this thread. 

We all have our interests and hot buttons and sometimes we think that what is important to us is important to everyone.    

 

Well, the same is also true in reverse: "We all have our disinterests and cold buttons (so to speak) and often we think that what is unimportant to us is unimportant to everyone."

Smartsound integration, apparently, doesn't seem to be valued anymore by Pinnacle, but it is by many Studio users!

rstrong:

Why would Pinnacle do that?......

To sell more Scorefitter...that's why!

I like Smartsound as well, although I use Scorefitter too. With the two combined, I can usually find the right music for the mood. I do agree though....if Smartsound support is removed, I may look for another editor that supports it.

Timeless Moments:

Regarding the 44K question, at least I can settle that now, here is the reply from Martha at Smartsound on that issue. Regarding the rest of this thread we just have to wait and see Pinnacle's response.

 Smartsound Wrote 

"ghuck" is mistaken. Quicktracks has always been able to use 44k discs. There's nothing to be read into the sale, other than we like to do sales periodically. When you install a new disc from the Audio Palette, Sound Palette, or Edge Series, you have the option of installing the 22k or 44k files. Just pick the one you want to use. There's no auto install of 22k files, you're prompted for the question when the installation begins."

Ian

I have some of the discs that only have 44k tracks (actually 44k and 48k), and I use the tracks in Studio and SonicFire. It's been a while since I installed them, but I think I might have had to "install" them twice ... once for Studio and once for SonicFire. Not sure if that was necessary, but best I can remember, that's what I did.

B

 

bhurst:

Timeless Moments:

Regarding the 44K question, at least I can settle that now, here is the reply from Martha at Smartsound on that issue. Regarding the rest of this thread we just have to wait and see Pinnacle's response.

 Smartsound Wrote 

"ghuck" is mistaken. Quicktracks has always been able to use 44k discs. There's nothing to be read into the sale, other than we like to do sales periodically. When you install a new disc from the Audio Palette, Sound Palette, or Edge Series, you have the option of installing the 22k or 44k files. Just pick the one you want to use. There's no auto install of 22k files, you're prompted for the question when the installation begins."

Ian

I have some of the discs that only have 44k tracks (actually 44k and 48k), and I use the tracks in Studio and SonicFire. It's been a while since I installed them, but I think I might have had to "install" them twice ... once for Studio and once for SonicFire. Not sure if that was necessary, but best I can remember, that's what I did.

B

What I have discovered since trying this again is, if you install it though sonicfire, studio will not see it. But if you install it though studio, all you have to do in sonicfire is rebuild the smartsound base and you will have it. For some reason rebuild the smartsound base in studio will still not see anything loaded with sonicfire. So I have reloaded all of my disk with the 44K tracks and it does work.

Footnote; if you loaded the 22K with sonic fire and the 44k with studio, your disk will have both version on your disk, so you have to remove that track using there interface (studio or sonicfire) then reload it to have only one version on you hard drive.

The 44K issue whilst interesting is too much of a digression. The main point of this thread is whether or not Avid intend to disable the use of Smartsound in a future patch.

We are all waiting for an answer Avid.

 If it's positive there will be an order for 4 sets of 12 Ultimate by tomorrow (actually, 1 first to check it all works on our test rig then 4 more to go on the Studio equipment). If my hesitation is typical across the Studio community then you could be holding back a lot of orders by way of your reticence.

Rich, it seems that my "hot button" is just about everyone elses too! So maybe you could get us an answer, this is becoming rather tiring.

 Ian