I'm just glad my 12 Ultimate works sooo good that i will not have too patch.

I would sincerely like to see Smartsound capability stay within Pinnacle Studio. 

Jumping back and forth between Studio and Sonicfire Pro is not something I would enjoy...

Jon, could Studio's architecture support Smartsound as a plug-in....?? Maybe we should be lobbying SmartSound to explore that as an option.

Jon RT:

Also, by next version, we mean next patch for Studio 12.

 

Many users are going to get a surprise after installing the next patch then.

 

Paul W. H

Here's the trick:  You want SS on a 1:31 min clip (for example).  Open a project in your earlier version of Studio, put a blank title on the Timeline of 1:31, and write your desired SS track under that clip.  Now export as an AVI file, but uncheck "include video" and make the extension WAV, and you creat an audio file of your SS, which you can now import to another app.

Thanks A6BN that is one option. 

 

Paul W. H

Jon RT:

Also, by next version, we mean next patch for Studio 12.

Thanks for confirming that point Jon,

Now we can continue this discussion no doubt for some time, however from the number of responses with more or less unanimous support for Smartsound either as it is now or as a plugin, are you able to throw us a lifeline here. I am not asking you for a cast iron guarantee, but can you say that due to the strength of feeling from Studio users that Avid will revisit this strategy and postpone any SS removal until a final definitive statement can be made; or is this indeed the final comment and nothing we say will make any difference?

This is such an important issue that I feel a continual dialogue with Avid is required.

Thanks

Ian

Very sad indeed.  I just installed Vista64 bit to take whatever advantage of Studio 12 I could with the beefed up OS.  Now I feel like I just had my pants pulled off of me.  What is even more discouraging are all those folks who opted to purcahse the $300 bundle of SmartSound music from Pinnacle while they were selling that.  Now ... at least with regards to the smooth workflow in Studio they're basically telling us that our $300 spent with them is good for the garbage.   Backwards compatibility has always been a key plus with Studio products especially for those of us who have laid out the extra capital on music libraries to work with Studio. I don't know what market research they were doing but if they want to hear the voice of their clients THIS IS THE PLACE THEY SHOULD TURN FIRST.  If anyone from Pinnacle is reading this please reconsider this outrageous decision.  How can you expect your clients to even consider purchasing hundreds of dollars in add-on's when in fact you could decide at any time to just pull the plug on those too?  Seriously.

Logos

Jon RT - are you able to confirm that Smartsound will remain usable within LIQUID for the foreseeable future?    Or is it also being dropped from Liquid in a future "patch/upgrade"?

Well, doing this on a .1 release could only be to temper the bad press there going to get. It's time to start the letter writing machine going, if they will not listen to the user base, maybe poor review will get notice though the software reviewers. Time to start making the list of prior people (magazines) that have review studio software the past, and once the 12.1 release is officially release and the really try this stunt, the letter will be flying. Poor sales will change people minds faster then anything.

Jon RT,

Thank you for being crystal clear about SmartSound being dropped in the next PATCH.  That is very, very sad news. 

I can't believe it's being dropped mid-release!!!  That is unconscionable.  I purchased S12 with the understanding that the "workaround" would work in "S12", which clearly implies 12.1... 12.2... 12.3... 12.x.

How, now, do we have faith to continue investing in Studio?

How long will Bias Soundsoap function?  Boris Graffiti?  Magic Bullet Looks?  proDAD VitaScene?  All the plug-ins?  Maybe the ability to burn disks from within Studio will be taken away (you can do that with other applications, you know).  What's next???

I said it before, and I'll say it again... I would be willing to pay a "reasonable fee" to purchase SoundSoap compatibility.  Others here have said so.  You could offer it just like many other add-on functions.

Please pass on these pleas to re-open the discussions with SmartSound.  If they are being unreasonable (from your perspective), let us know and we'll hammer on them instead of Avid.

 

Lastly (for now) a story about "market research" (true story, with most of the boring detail omitted):

I worked for a "merged company" that had two product lines.  One "high end" and the other "low end".  Most of the management belonged to the "low end product line" half of the company.  Both products used digitizing tablets, and the high-end product included a "tablet stroke" method of inputting commands (similar to the "graffiti" used on Palm PDAs). 

Soon it was announced that they wouldn't continue to support the tablet strokes.

Why?  Because according to their research, many of the customers didn't use them.

Of course many of the customers didn't use them... 65% of the customer base (by seat count, not by dollar value) did not own that feature.  Are those people stupid on purpose?  Sheessh!!!

Eventually it was reinstated, with a stupid two-step installation process, but much damage to the customer base was already done.

I know I am not the only one who questions the validity of the "research" that was done (no matter how well intentioned).  The SmartSound support is such a GREAT and USEFUL feature.  When I demo Studio to my friends and family, some of whom have purchased Studio, it is the automatic resizing of SmartSound music that always gets the Ooos and Ahhhs.

P.S.

That company no long exists, even though they had a very good product for a while.

I can't believe it's being dropped mid-release!!!  That is unconscionable.  I purchased S12 with the understanding that the "workaround" would work in "S12", which clearly implies 12.1... 12.2... 12.3... 12.x.

Dennis. If you & others have purchased S12 on that understanding & Pinnacle had either previously stated or implied that. IMO, Pinnacle would be in Breach of the UK Sale Of Goods ACt 1979, as amended. 

I note that the Forum's Resident Lawyer recently Posted a terse comment that: "Price fixing is illegal in the United States" (Also the UK) regarding, I think, Pinnacle & Prodad's pricing re: Mercalli. I think they changed it.

Maybe the Subject of this Thread falls into the above category.

Is there a "silent majority" out there?

My brother-in-law, who is a Studio customer thanks to me, had this to say after I emailed him a link to this thread.

This is a very bad mistake on their part.  I noticed someone earlier had mentioned that they had trouble loading smartsound on install.  I have that too.  I don't even have smartsound loaded right now.  Scorefitter, at least without the purchase options, has an absolutely horrible selection of "out of the box" pieces.  I must have spent 20-30 minutes one night going through the samples, over and over, trying to find one that didn't sound cheesy.  I never did find one that I liked.  I ended up fitting my own menu and closing music. 

 

I've scene many bad decisions made by companies before, but this one is right up on top of the "idiot's list"  Unless their hired musicians include everyone from Eddie Van Halen to Mozart, their current garbage all sounds the same.  I'm guessing the one musician they "hired" has extremely limited range.

I for one disagree with this move. I have spent alot of money on SmartSound Cd's and now that Pinnacle will no longer support it, will leave a bad taste in my mouth. I suppose Pinnacle expects me to go and spent equal or greater amounts of money to bring myself up to the level that I now hold with SmartSound. It it better for their pockets but not mine. I have been a loyal customer since Studio 400 and have spent alot of money just keeping up with all the bugs and patches.

Review my video response Pinnacle and please reconsider!!

My Video Response to Pinnacle

 

dpena:

IReview my video response Pinnacle and please reconsider!!

My Video Response to Pinnacle

Dan

Thank you for going to the trouble of making this short video statement.

AVID - You can see the strength of feeling here, apart from all the many comments people like Dan have taken the time to even send you a video protest. You are going to force those of us with a large SS collection to go to your competition which still fully integrate with SS. Also, as another user commented, once this goes ahead don't expect any mercy from the PC magazine reviewers because you can bet that they will be receiving plenty of letters and are probably already watching this thread.

As for the UK Sales of Goods Act, the decision may be in breach of UK law, we will get this checked out.

If it is Smartsound causing the problems here then let us know and we can write to them instead.

For me personally, if I could have an assurance that S12 would maintain support throughout it's lifetime i.e. until S13, I would buy 4 copies of S12 immediately, otherwise I will be forced to stick with S11 and move our business over to Adobe which I don't want to do particularly.

Ian

What about voting to know how many people are affected ???

[VOTE HERE] 

DV FX 

Thanks for that.  I have voted.  While only 2 votes there, it is 100% that this is "problematic".

I agree with others.  "IF" the news was, that in future NEW versions of Studio AFTER V12, then ok fine.  One could deal with that.

But in mid-stream like this, within a current version?  No, it's not acceptable.  Looks to me like the people responsible for making/maintaining the contracts fell down on the job.  I do wonder if they've even talked to their legal department.  If they did, I wonder if their legal department provided flawed advice.

Well, I guess it's time for Pinnacle customers who are or will be affected by this to start making some noise!

Can someone post the email address of someone high up in Avid?  Someone who has the power to do something here?  I'm not so good at finding out this kind of info.  LOL 

From page 183 of my copy of S12 User Manual:

USING SMARTSOUND

If you have installed songs in SmartSound format on your computer, these too will be available for use in the Background music tool. To switch between your ScoreFitter and SmartSound song collections, make the appropriate choice on the Source dropdown list at the top of the tool window.

SmartSound Quicktracks are also available on my PC.

As for the UK Sales of Goods Act, the decision may be in breach of UK law, we will get this checked out.

This should be passed to your Local Trading Standards Department.

Additionally you might have a claim for Breach of Contract, with the store/vendor that you purchased S12 from. If it was PC World, who are the UK's biggest stockist of Video Editing Prgs, then I don't think they are going to be happy in refunding the purchase price of S12 & possibly also the cost of purchasing SmartSound Disks, on the expectation that they are going to work with S12, as quoted above, in the Manual that they sold to you. 

 

Thanks for getting the information for us, Jon. It's a shame, though, that Avid has decided to disable SS in S12, since it means I now have to decide which other application will do the job for me. Scorefitter is not acceptable to me, as the sound quality is way too artificial and the selection of tracks is very poor. So I'm at least glad that I hadn't yet purchased S12. So now it's Ulead, Sony or...????? Ulead still has SS AND it has the capability of 6 video tracks, rather than two, but the interface is not as good as Studio. There are others, of course...

I recognize that I'll have to deal with a less desirable interface, but having used Studio since v8 with SS, I feel betrayed by corporate shenanigans. Now starts the research...

mcperry:

Jon RT - are you able to confirm that Smartsound will remain usable within LIQUID for the foreseeable future?    Or is it also being dropped from Liquid in a future "patch/upgrade"?

Why wouldn't it??

Liquid is an EOL (end of line) product. No further work is being carried out on Liquid (other than bug patches).

 

Liquid's successor however will be a different ball game though. It's clear that Avid is moving away from SS. Given that, I would be surprised to see a SS plugin of any kind developed for NextGen.

Guys, a poll is proposed on Declic Video website : here.

lnuss:

Ulead still has SS AND it has the capability of 6 video tracks, rather than two, but the interface is not as good as Studio. There are others, of course...

I recognize that I'll have to deal with a less desirable interface, but having used Studio since v8 with SS, I feel betrayed by corporate shenanigans. Now starts the research...

Yes, well it has always been the Avid way or no way. They said they have change but.....

 I can understand Avid's wish to precede in another direction, it happens sometimes, but to ACTIVELY disable SS goes a bit too far. I've been pursuing "other directions" for some time now and I'm happier for it. In the long run, you will be too

ENGLISH VERSION:

Declic_Video:

What about voting to know how many people are affected ???

[VOTE HERE] 

DV FX 

I am not a lawyer but having read the following I am pretty sure that a case could be made.

Sale and Supply of Goods Act 1994 (c. 35)

1994 CHAPTER 35

Where the seller sells goods in the course of a business, there is an implied term that the goods supplied under the contract are of satisfactory quality.

(2A) For the purposes of this Act, goods are of satisfactory quality if they meet the standard that a reasonable person would regard as satisfactory, taking account of any description of the goods, the price (if relevant) and all the other relevant circumstances.

(2B) For the purposes of this Act, the quality of goods includes their state and condition and the following (among others) are in appropriate cases aspects of the quality of goods—

(a) fitness for all the purposes for which goods of the kind in question are commonly supplied,

(b) appearance and finish,

(c) freedom from minor defects,

(d) safety, and

(e) durability.

Now, it seems this act is to be updated to include software that is downloaded (may already have been done), software bought in the box is known as a tangible asset and as such falls under this law.

The key points that I can see here are that the goods should be free from minor defects and they should be fit for purpose. Other sections state the goods should be as described.

Now, Studio 12 was sold with the description that it can handle Smartsound as pointed out earlier in the manual.
It should be free from minor defects (bugs).

One can read that in the process of correcting these minor defects (as done by a patch) the product should still match the two other criteria of fit for purpose and as described.

If during the process of fixing the minor defects the product becomes NOT AS DESCRIBED and therefor to consumers who bought the software on this basis it is NO LONGER FIT FOR PURPOSE, then I would expect that this breaks the UK Sale of Goods Act 1994.

As I said I am not a lawyer and have spent only a short time looking through the act, I would guess though that any well trained lawyer would be able to make a legal case under UK law. I don't know about US law but generally it seems to be fairly close to UK law so I wouldn't be at all surprised if it were the same or even stronger.

If found in breach Avid would have to compensate ALL it's customers to a level decided by the court.

saby:

Guys, a poll is proposed on Declic Video website : here.

{...}

Saby, could you please correct your link with the following URL ?

http://declic-video-fx.com/language/en-US/Home/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/518/End-of-SmartSound-with-Studio-.aspx 

Thanks,
DV FX
PS: It's very rare that only one version (french or english are generally published all together, except in very rare case...)

Done.

Sorry, but initially I didn't found it due to a little problem : when you enter your french home page the 1st news is the one called "Fini les smartsound ?". Then click the English with the american flag and you wont' get this page but this one with Borris Graffiti tutorial first.

Since the manual describes how to use SS, for a company to disable it after a purchase, sounds like the making of a class action law suit. I'm going to check with my attorney to see what he thinks.

Avid--I would rather you leave well enough alone rather than have to go to another product. However, if you think that your name will carry you through this quagmire, think again. Many a company whose name was a mainstay in commerce has disappeared for making poor decisions. This one ranks right up at the top!