Joe,

Just exactly how did you get your Sony to output a file so that Studio allows you to burn a Blu-Ray disk? I have the HDR-SR11 (10 days to play with it) and the file it created and read it into Studio (it was set to HD-FD on the camcorder, highest possible) - but Studio thinks I want to make either an HD DVD or AVCHD - Blu-Ray is not an option on the Make Movie tab with the file from the camcorder on the timeline. What gives? I want to make a Blu-Ray with this - do I have to do something on the Sony side (in the cam or their software?).

TIA,

Tony

Please ignore previous post - my mistake....

Tony

Tony, you DO have the specs for AVCHD video with having the quad core processor. From posts on this forum it seems that the processor is the most important for AVCHD editing so you're good to go there. I've read on the forum that HDV is less intensive on the PC but just hated dealing with tapes on my old camcorder. You have to watch when they run out, switch them out, run head cleaners after a while, etc. I wanted to go the hard drive route. I did consider the 120GB SR12 but I thought of a vacation I took to Florida in 2005 and I had the camera on A LOT and in the end I only had a total of less than 4 hours. This was over 1 week and I shot everything I could and eventually put the camera down on occasion to actually relax. You can do 7 hours at full 1920x1080 high quality on the SR11. The SR11 also has a memory stick slot and I believe you can get up to an 8GB memory stick and record to that. I bought a 4GB memory stick pro card but the only time I've used it so far is to "dub" (that's what it's called in the camera) movies from the hard drive to the memory stick so that I can play them immediately in my PS3. So in the end I thought the 60GB version would work fine and it has been for me (I've had it since the middle of March). If you think you're not going to keep up on transferring video from the camera to the computer on a regular basis then maybe the 120GB model would be right for you but I think that's overkill. The transfer process doesn't take long and then you can quickly erase the files on the camera's hard drive. And I guess the memory stick reply answers your question about running out of space on vacation...you can either record to the memory stick directly or move files from the hard drive to the memory stick to gain hard drive space.

From your other post about copying files from the camera's hard drive to the PC, you can do it in 1 of 2 ways...you can use the Picture Motion Browser software that comes with the camera. I like using this software because it will load thumbnails of your video and make previewing and watching it MUCH easier later on. When files are transferred through PMB they are .m2ts extensions. The other way to transfer is to just access the camera's hard drive through Windows Explorer. When files are copied this way they have .mts extensions. They are the same thing and both work in Studio (I guess PMB codes the files as .m2ts for the PMB application). Again, the thumbnail option will be much easier to manage the video files so I would use the PMB software. Otherwise you'll just deal with file numbers and have to actually watch the videos to see what they are.

You also had a question about how to make a Blu-ray disc. First, what version of Studio 12 are you using? I think that only the Ultimate has Blu-ray burning capabilities. Burning an AVCHD disc is fine but I know it can't do any menus and it may also not do any transitions (I can't remember on that one). I did burn a few AVCHD discs to standard DVD when I had Studio 11 and I can definitely say that the AVCHD disc burning is better in Studio 12 and true Blu-ray capability makes it even better. Now that I can do Blu-ray discs I don't even mess around with the AVCHD discs anymore. If you don't have the Ultimate version, I would make the upgrade. I can't tell you how pleasing it was to see a motion menu with background music on a Blu-ray disk. Ahhhhhh....

I've been all over the SR11 so if you have any other questions on it, please shoot them over to me. You said you have it for 10 days...is it a loaner or friends? I think you'll fall in love with it. The camera has worked perfectly for me. I love it!

Joe
 

Update. I tried using the Progressive coding option to see the difference without out it for my 1920x1080 HD project. I was NOT happy with the results of using the progressive option. I have a motion men with thumbnail chapters and 2 normal buttons that have text attached to them. The issue was with the text...they seemed to have horizontal lines all through letters and from top to botton. The thumbnail pictures in the menu and the photos in the slideshow had less definition too. I'm comparing this to the same project I did WITHOUT the progressive option and it looked beautiful. The video was AVCHD from a Sony HDR-SR11 which records in 1920x1080i. Maybe the issue was that the original source content was 1080i??

Joe

Joe,

I just used the SR11 on a mini vacation - WOW - I've never seen such brilliant colors and detail (and that's just previewing on my computer monitor - I can't view them in HD on my HDTV yet - the camera did not come with an HDMI cable and I'm not sure the component cables will do it justice). I'll be trying the videos on Studio later tonight or tom'w (Monday).

How DO you view the movies on an HDTV if they're all segmented into pieces? Will it play back like a tape camcorder?

One more question - I took a lot of photos with the video camera - how do you get them onto the computer (they don't show-up on the software - and when I insert the memory stick into the computer's card reader, they're in some weird format that nothing reads (cpi and mts files). Oh, and what's with the software "analyzing" the videos - takes quite some time?

I did send the pictures to the memory stick (1st thing I set-up on the camera). How the heck to see them and print 'em).

Silly questions, bit I'm a novice with this camera and I might keep it IF it's EZ to download the stuff on it.

Thanks!

Tony

That camera is SWEET, isn't it? I was VERY happy with my vacation video from Mexico. VERY nice!

The component cables will pass the HD but I do think it looks better with HDMI. I got the HDMI cable for my camera and that's all I use to view the video on my HDTVs.

Don't worry about the segmented pieces. When you plug the camera into the HDTV, click the Play button icon on the lower left corner of the screen. Choose the first video you want to start viewing by tapping on the thumbnail...from there all of the clips will play in a row and you won't have any gaps.

To get the video and the still pictures onto the computer, you can use the Picture Motion Browser software that came with the camera. I use it and I like it because the interface is nice. When you plug the camera into the computer via USB, a menu shows up on the camera's LCD. You can click the USB Connect option for the hard drive (upper left - icon looks like a pill) or the option for the memory stick USB Connect. Once you click the option you want, the Picture Motion Browswer (PMB) software will automatically open. Choose Media File Import in the left sidebar. This middle area will then give you three 3 tabs at the top...one for HD video, one for SD video, and one for the Camera option. You'll be able to see all of your thumbnails under each tab and you can click multiple files under each tab as well. Choose your location for the imported media files at the bottom and then click the Import button. The "analyzing" part is where the PMB software checks the validity of the files being transferred. The analyze process also allows your video to show up as thumbnails in the PMB software. If you don't allow it to go through the analyze process you won't be able to see the thumbnails and therefore it will be much more difficult to find the files you want quickly.

The PMB software should also automatically open when you insert the memory card into the computer. You can use the PMB software to import the files or just use Windows Explorer to retrieve them. The photos will be in DCIM > 101MSDCF (or some variation of the 101...file). The cpi files you're talking about are in the AVCHD folder. You don't want to touch these files. To get the AVCHD video files off of the card, go to AVCHD > BDMV > STREAM. Again, I like using the PMB software for the import.

I know the analyzing takes a long time so I just set it up before I go to bed and let it run. However, you should to import like 2 or 3 files as a test first because the first time you run this transfer process, you'll get a pop up box asking you if you want to go through the analyzing process. On this pop up there is a box to check to allow it to run automatically next time. Go ahead and check this box. Let the process run all the way through and then set up the import again to bring in all of your files. NOW you can go to bed knowing that when you get up in the morning, all of your files will be transferred and analyzed.

Regarding how to see the pictures and print them, now that you know how to get them onto the computer you can then view them, print them, upload them, etc.  

For the photo settings on the camera, I use the highest 10.2 megapixel setting. Even though it produces a 4:3 image you can use the quick option within Studio to zoom the picture to fill the entire 16x9 frame. To do this, drag the photo onto the timeline, right click on the picture and choose Zoom picture to entire frame. Whenever I make photo slideshows I use the Pan & Zoom option and do the zoom there. Plus, the Pan & Zoom option makes the picture MUCH more interesting to watch...like it tells a story. I tried the 7.2 megapixel option in the camera so that it takes the photo in the 16x9 format but I could see a visible drop in clarity. Stick to the 10.2 option.  

Any new camera is going to take a bit to get used to but I really love the Sony products and this is my 2nd Sony camera. Just spend some time with the camera and you'll find that it is the right one for you.

Did you end up getting the 60GB or 120GB version? I'm pretty sure the only difference between the 2 models is the hard drive size.

Joe 

Joe,

Thanks a bunch for the detailed instructions. I have the SR11 (60Gb) that I purchased (locally, Big Box store) and have 10 days to return it. I'm still thinking about the SR12 (120Gb), but it's around $200-300 more (online), and if it offers no other advantages, I might stick with this. 7+ hours IS a lot of video to edit down.

I thought you were able to take pictures with this camera WHILE taking videos, but I've only been able to stop taking movies, switch to photo mode, take a picture and then back to movie mode to take videos again. Would've been even sweeter to snap-off pictures while taking movies on the fly - no stopping the action so to speak. Seems to want to take movies if you press the photo button (and send them to the memory card?) if you're in movie mode.

Now, off to Studio and Blu-Ray's......

Sorry fellow forum members if this is turning into a how-to on this specific cam, but more and more people are getting into HD and probably are somewhat interested in the functionality available on this particular camcorder.

Sony's are good cams, this is my second also - and the batteries are interchangeable! Gonna try and sell my 1 yr old miniDV Sony on E-Bay.

Tony

If you choose AVCHD, you really can't go wrong with the latest SOny or Canon flash memory or hybrid camcorders. Suggest staying away from JVC (compatibility and strange file formats) and Pannys are now getting poor reviews relative to Canons and Sonys. However, if you can wait, Canon just announced a 24 Mbps AVCHD camcorder for sale in Japan. That means AVCHD is now up to full spec. It might merit waiting for this one.

You're very welcome Tony. Gotta share the love on this awesome camera!! 

You CAN snap photos while recording on the SR11. Go to movie mode and start recording video. When you're ready to snap a photo, go ahead and press the silver photo button on top of the camera. As the camera captures the picture and writes it to the hard drive, you'll see some red dashes tracking on the upper right corner of the LCD which usually appear for about 3 to 5 seconds. This means that the camera is writing the picture to the hard drive (or memory stick). The reason it takes so long to write the picture to the hard drive is because the camera is already writing 1920x1080 video to the hard drive so the photo takes second priority. It may LOOK like you're recording when pressing the photo button because the dashes appear for so long but it does snap the picture. This picture is captured under the 7.6 megapixel setting in 16x9 format. After the red dashes are gone, stop recording and press the Play icon in the lower left corner of the LCD. This will bring up the video section of your saved footage on the hard drive...if you press the Camera icon at the bottom of the screen you'll see your photos. I think this option works better than grabbing a frame of video within Studio. If I am remembering correctly, if you grab a video frame within Studio it only comes out at the 2 megapixel setting whereas if you snap the photo yourself it comes out at 7.6 megapixel. That will make a big difference in your HD project.

Keep all of us posted on the editing process of your project. Since we're using the same camera (SR11 or SR12) I'll be curious to see if you encounter any of the issues I did during editing (i.e. export errors, transitions not working all of the time, pan & zooms failing). By the way, even though I've had these errors I've pressed on and re-rendered the projects and they've eventually come out perfect. I think the trick here is to turn OFF the background rendering while editing the project. When you're finished and ready to make the movie, stay on the Edit tab, turn the background rendering ON and wait for the entire timeline to turn orange. Once that is done, go to the Make Movie tab. At this point you might see part of your timeline turn green again...wait for the timeline to turn back to orange. On the Settings for Make Movie, check the re-encode entire movie button. With these options my movies have been successful. And if something didn't work right (transition, etc.) I deleted the aux files and tried it all over again and Studio got it right the second time around. Also, you can choose to burn the Blu-ray option and use the Create content but don't burn option. This will create the disc image needed to burn later if you have errors and you'll be able to view the footage on your PC before burning. You find the video under "Your Computer Name" > Documents > Pinnacle Studio > My Disc Images > "Your Project Name" >  BDMV > STREAM. In the STREAM folder you'll usually have 2 files there...the first one is usually your video which includes your titles, transitions, video, photos, etc. while the second one is your menu. When you burn the project to Blu-ray disc it will all come together correctly. Good luck!

Joe
 

SiestaKey1:

Gotta share the love on this awesome camera!! 

 

Hi Joe 

It's great to find more Studio users who appreciate what a good high def HDD camcorder has to offer.  But more importantly than that........

SiestaKey1:

 I think the trick here is

The second part of your post is simple, logical and would be very worthwhile reading for all those who are trying to work in 1920X1080, but experiencing problems.  IMO your post would be a good candidate for a "sticky" under "Make Movie" 

Well done!  

Thanks for the feedback Kero. Actually, what I will do this week is put together a post about my experiences with trying to create a Blu-ray disc with AVCHD video. I really went through A LOT of trial and error...I mean A LOT! The changes I made to my laptop and project preferences should be noted. My notes could possibly save HOURS of project time from others just getting into the AVCHD world. I was at the point of complete frustration but kept pressing on (many late nights with little sleep) until the project was perfect. It is perfect now and I have the disc image to burn more copies at any time. WAHOO!!

Thanks for the tip! I'll get that out this week on the forum!

Joe

turbohack:

Do you have to use Sony's software to download the video to the computer, or can you just "copy" it via USB - sorta like using the computer's 19 in one digital memory card readers for photos?

The MTS stream files can be copied straight to a hard drive by USB.  However, there is an advantage of using the bundled software if you want to use it to burn a trouble-free simple AVCHD-DVD that plays back and serves as a backup.  Until you master the editing phase, which can take heaps of time if you want fancy work, those discs allow you to share an unadorned video without lots of trouble. 

This editing with HD footage sure does take a lot of time - and I'm only startng to view the folder and files in Studio and dropping them onto the timeline - taking a LONG time...not even rendering (have background rendering turned-off; perhaps I should turn it on again?)....still trial and error here....

....will report back again later tonite...

Tony

Keep the background rendering off. AVCHD footage is highly compressed so it will take longer for the clips to show up in the timeline compared to SD footage. With the AVCHD footage, I've found that Studio works best when you take your time. For example, when you have the video section on in Studio and all of your video thumbnails are showing, before moving a clip to the timeline, click on it once...wait for the clip to show up in the Preview screen on the upper right...and THEN drag it to the timeline. If you try to move too quick you'll crash Studio which is a major annoyance in itself. You have a quad core processor, right? I only have a dual core at 2.5GHz and with the background rendering off, I'm still able to preview transitions and pans & zooms without any issue. If you have any other major effects in there then the background rendering will allow you to view the effect in real time in the preview window. Otherwise, keeping it off will greatly increase your ability to edit the video. Plus, with the background rendering on, any time you make a change to the video clip, it will start background rendering. When you're making small tweaks to photos (like when using Pan & Zoom) it can slow the PC a little bit. By keeping the background rendering off you can make as many changes as you want an you're only limited to Studio's ability to react to that one single clip instead of doing that PLUS the background rendering.

I'll get those AVCHD tips from my experience out soon! In the meantime, please don't hesitate to ask questions. The more people we can get doing this, the more tips and tricks (and possibly bugs) we can find about S12!!

Joe 

Joe,

This is insane. I have 26 pages (in Studio terms) of HD footage that I need to drag onto the timeline. Studio previews 8 at a time on the page, so I select and drag 8 at a time. Each of these 8 groups takes about 2 minutes to preview on the folder selection, then as I <CTRL> select all 8, it takes another 2-3 minutes to process them. Dragging to the timeline is quick. This is taking over 1.5 hours to drag about 2 hours of video (1-2 minutes each clip) to the timeline BEFORE any editing. There's no rendering going on at this time, and my Quads are running at 10% or so during this "processing" to the timeline.

Another question: is there a way to break-up a project and merge sub-projects into one larger project (like creating avi files in SD and reading the avi files into one "master" project) - can this be done with HD footage?

Tony

turbohack:

Studio previews 8 at a time on the page, so I select and drag 8 at a time.

Tony,

Try "select all" .  I find it still takes a long time but IMO is quicker than page-by-page.  It's only one operation, too.

JKoch:

   there is an advantage of using the bundled software if you want to use it to burn a trouble-free simple AVCHD-DVD that plays back and serves as a backup.  

IMO the other big advantage of using the bundled PMB software is that the PMB will automatically identify files not previously transferred, so simplifying the process. I find that very useful. 

OK.

I'll try the select all tom'w. I'm done for one night. BTW, I tried to create a "smart movie" with my 2 hours of HD footage - kept telling me I needed to add more video clips (movie it created wasn't long enough for the song I selected). Never had that problem with SD - and now Studio just hangs - had to reboot 2x and still no smart movie.

I'll regroup and figure it out tom'w. Perhaps I'm doing something wrong - OR - HD and SmartMovie don't play well together with a 2 hour project. I sure hope there's a way to break this up into more managable sizes/chunks.

Tony

Ahhh...you're feeling the frustration of editing AVCHD video. Welcome aboard. HA! It's frustrating now but when you finally get the finished project, it really DOES make it all worth while. And you can probably be truthful in telling people that you've put your blood sweat and tears into the project. You will cut yourself after throwing some discs...you will sweat from the heat your computer produces...and you will cry when Studio crashes, your project fails or when the project finally DOES render successfully and then realize that you didn't do something right. Stick with it Tony. By they way, I'm just about finished with my "all-inclusive" notes about my AVCHD editing history so I'll have that posted tonight for everyone.

The long time it takes to move the files onto the timeline can be expected and is normal with AVCHD footage due to high compression and high file size. It WILL take time for the clips to appear compared to SD video. I've noticed on my 15 minute project that when I first load Studio and open this project, it does take a few minutes for all of the titles, video clips, etc. to actually show up in the timeline. It just takes time so be patient.

Pinnacle recommends keeping AVCHD projects to below 20 minutes. That kind of stinks being that with the Blu-ray capability, we actually have media that will allow us the ROOM to put this much HD video on a disc and can't because of the limitations in Studio. I think you definitely have the right computer specs to do it but just can't because of Studio. I'm going to be working on the 2nd part of my vacation video in the next week or so and this one WILL have more than 20 minutes of footage so I'll be working on overcoming some issues too. I'll post my findings as usual.

Regarding Smart Movie, I thought I read somewhere on the forum that Smart Movie doesn't work with AVCHD footage (?????). I've always taken the long route in editing so I can't be sure.

Again, I'm going to post my tips on the forum tonight. Check for a new post titled "AVCHD Editing Tips – Studio 12 Ultimate".

If anyone has any feedback on the post, please join in so that we can all find the "right" way to get Studio to work for HD video!!

Joe
 

I'm actually glad that you brought this up Tony. I ran 2 tests for you because I've always just used the AVCHD footage and worked from there. I never wanted to convert the file to another type to avoid loss of clarity and detail. Here are my results:

I took 10 seconds of pure AVCHD video at 1920x1080 and loaded it into the timeline (full quality on the HDR-SR11). Under the Make Movie tab, I chose the File option, MPEG-2 as the File Type and used the HD 1080i preset. This converted my AVCHD file to MPEG-2. Still high definition. I went back to the Edit tab and loaded this new MPEG-2 file right after my AVCHD file. I then burned these 2 clips to a BD-RE and played it on my PS3. You can definitely tell the difference between the 2 clips. The AVCHD video was very clean, panned well, and just looked great. The MPEG-2 file looked ok (keep in mind that I'm comparing this file to pure AVCHD) but it DID have some pixelation when panning and even on still shots when the camera moved just a little bit. The pixelation was also quite big...like big blocks on my 40" TV. Even for the eye to easily pick up at 4 or 5 feet away.

For the 2nd test I converted the AVCHD file to MPEG-4, loaded it on the timeline with the AVCHD footage and burned it to BD-RE again. This file looked even worse because the resolution was reduced to 1280x720.

So...the MPEG-2 export option will work for you if you can be satisfied with footage that probably has about 80%-90% of the clarity of pure AVCHD. If it were me, I would move forward with the AVCHD footage. I like my HD at 100% full quality. I don't think I would be happy with the MPEG-2 version. However, the MPEG-2 option WOULD allow you to at least complete this project the first time.

Open your current project, add any transitions, titles, etc. that you want and choose the File option on the Make Movie tab. Apply my settings from above for the MPEG-2 option and get the file converted. You can then just load this single file into a new project's timeline and go through the rendering process (I recommend using the Create disc content but don't burn option first). Prior to creating the disc content, you can still add a menu right in front of this large file in your timeline and assign chapters without splitting the clip. Just drag your menu to the timeline and it should open the Clip Properties box (if not, right click on on the menu and choose Clip Properties). Place the timeline scrubber where you want it on the MPEG-2 file, click the appropriate chapter number and click Set Chapter. Keep doing this for as many chapters as you want. Or...you can just leave the project alone with the single MPEG-2 file and render the project as is. The MPEG-2 file won't tax the PC as much as the AVCHD will (different compression) so you should see a speed enhancement. Your DVD or Blu-ray disc will still play...it just won't have a menu. No big deal.

Joe 

Joe,

Based on your experiment and my inability to create a quick Smartmovie, I'm going to proceed with the painful manual editing of my HD vacation footage - from the original high res files. I don't want to lose any quality and really want to see what HD looks like for an entire project and see how long it will take.

I did notice when rendering or making Blu-Ray disks (almost anything other than just reading HD files), my Quad Cores were being utilized at over 90% a good amount of the time. I'll report more about this while I take more notes as to when this actually occurs.

Tony