Thats OK, I also slip with my fingers sometimes

About the bluray player, I will very much recommend a PS3, it can do so much more, I use mine as a media center connected to my home network.

I recently tried a new BD-R disk from DVDitPro after having followed the directions for the PS3 patch and the finished disk was not recognized by a PS3.  The PS3 owner said that it was recently updated to the latest version (as usual).  I'm totally at a loss for what to do as this is new territory for most of us and it just isn't working for me.  I can't figure it  out because everything seems totally normal from start to finish.  I export a 10 minute MPEG4 HDV2 1080x1440i file and import that into DVDitPro.  It tells me it has to recompress and I say ok.  I don't do anything from here except tell it to burn to Blu Ray using the new burner.  It burns and when finished says "completed successfully" or something like that.  I check the disk and verify that it has burn marks on it so I know there is content.  I play the disk on a PS3 which doesn't recognize it.  I know the drive reads regular DVD's just fine.  I have played movies and video games off of it with no problems.  I also seem to have no problems inserting a BD-R disk and burning content to it (so it seems).  The only thing I seem to be having a problem with is the playback...  This Pioneer burner doesnt even recognize a disk in the drive let alone playing the disk...

Hi Eric,

 Can I ask have you ever burnt a blu-ray in dvditpro Hd and successfully played it on a PS3?   The reason I ask is that there is a PATCH on the dvditpro hd forum that you need to apply into dvditpro hd program section (they explain what to do on the forum).  Know that I went insane trying to get a blu-ray to work and only once I discovered the PATCH did it all work. 

 The patch is NOT for the PS3 it is for the program dvditproHD.    Copy this link  and it should take you to the thread you need. 

http://forums.support.roxio.com/index.php?showtopic=20583

 Let me know if this helps.

 Cathy

The PS3 prob is something for the Roxio forum I think, works fine here and with other users using it, I can´t tell why it doesn´t work for you as you also do have the PS3 patch installed, create a thread at the Roxio forum and tell your probs, they are good at this.

And, about playing your bluray discs on your computer, as said, the only app that I know of that plays those discs is power dvd Ultra, have you installed that app yet.

If you suspect that there is something wrong with your burner, create an iso file instead of burning directly to disc and load that file into, for example daemon tools and play it with..  yes correct.... Power dvd Ultra

 

On the last try that I spoke about in the last post, I had already followed those instructions for the PS3 patch.  I did so for the DVDitPro folder in program files where it says to do it all. 

PowerDVDultra has a free trial but the free version has limitations.  One of those limitations is that it will not playback blu ray disks.  This means I would have to shell out over a hundred bucks just to test whether or not my computer can play them back.  My question is this: Shouldn't the computer at least recognize the disk even without a blu ray video player installed?

The PS3 and the computer I burned it on treat the disk the same (don't recognize that there is a disk inserted at all).  The blu ray player at best buy at least recognized it and said that it couldn't read it.  I feel like I need to return the burner to Videoguys (if that's even possible) and get my money back.  For whatever reason, I am a special case where the workflow simply doesn't work. 

Eric,

It should at least recognize the disk. It sounds to me like you've got a bad burner. Talk to Gary at Videoguys about exchanging it for a new one. 

Dave I'm thinking the same thing but the only things that puzzle me are:

1.) the disk clearly shoes burn marks so there should be data on it

2.) Like the pc blu-ray burner, the PS3 didnt recognize there was disk even inserted at all.  I would have thought that it would say something like it cant read the disk or incorrect media inserted etc.  For some reason the set top player at best buy is the only one that recognized a disk was inserted but just couldn't play it.

Maybe all this is normal with a bad drive but who knows, it's all new technology...

I guess I'll call videoguys and see if they can swap out a new one for me.

 

Tomas,

Where are you getting the SD material that you're upscaling and putting on BluRay discs?  Is it from VHS tapes or DV tapes or something else?

EmbeR:

Dave I'm thinking the same thing but the only things that puzzle me are:

1.) the disk clearly shoes burn marks so there should be data on it

2.) Like the pc blu-ray burner, the PS3 didnt recognize there was disk even inserted at all.  I would have thought that it would say something like it cant read the disk or incorrect media inserted etc.  For some reason the set top player at best buy is the only one that recognized a disk was inserted but just couldn't play it.

The fact that there's a burn layer on the disk only indicates that the laser is writing. It could be transcribing the entire text of Cicero in pig latin and not the video, but you can't tell what it wrote simply by looking at the platter. In other words, the burner might be corrupting the information on the disk, or perhaps it's not burning sufficiently so when read it appears blank to most drives and marginal to others. Some set top players are much more "relaxed" in what they consider a valid disk (this increased the chance of the player to recognize and play any disk).

Again, my XP sys does not recognize that there is a BD disc in my player, neither my physical one nor my virtual.

Power dvd autostarts when a BD disc is inserted - loaded , if I want to start it again after shutting down, the only way to play it is to first open up power dvd and then press play, rightclicking on the unit on my desktop does not work.

My Vista sys however recognizes the disc on the player and I am also able to explore it , WMP in Vista does not play it.

And Ember, about having to buy power dvd ultra or a similar app, I think that this is a must, you have already invested in a BD burner and a BD disc creating program, of course you also must have a viewing program installed on your system.

I have never used dvdit pro hd for burning discs, I always , as with Liquid, creates iso image files first to be able to preview them loaded into Daemon Tools, the app I use for burning BD discs from iso files is Ulead Burn Now 4,5 .

So, again, create an iso file, Daemon Tools is freeware and invest in Power dvd Ultra to play that iso file that is loaded into daemon tools and tell us what happens .

Scott, I have answered your q in that actual thread

mjolnarn:

Scott, I have answered your q in that actual thread

What thread and where in it?

Why not just answer here to keep things simple?

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Here's the answer which he put in another thread instead of here.  I thought moderators were the folks who were supposed to move things around if necessary. 

Tomas,

Where are you getting the SD material that you're upscaling and putting on BluRay discs?  Is it from VHS tapes or DV tapes or something else?

---

Scott Myers
smyers63 on Skype

 

Just ordinary SD media from my HC 90 so far, I still have tests to do with captured analogue media, will demand very high quality from the tape of course, maybe that ABBA clip and a Vitascene filter applied at the timeline header after applying the Classical 2D editor first of course, nice to still have some more things to try, only if days where longer and I didn´t need my sleep but time will tell, maybe someone else will try it before me. 

---

Tomas

I don't understand why someone would want to take all the time to put SD footage on a BluRay disc.  I understand even less why someone would want to put analog SD on a BluRay disc.  Blowing up noise from SD size to HD size just makes no sense unless you like big noise. 

Thanks for the insight Dave/Tomas.

As for PowerDVD Ultra, I checked out the minimum requirements and my computer fails to meet the minimum in several areas.  I'm not sure if this would mean that it would be a waste of money or not but here are the deficiencies:

1.) minimum processor is Pentium 4 3.2Ghz (mine is P4 2.8Ghz)

2.) minimum Graphics card is (for my Nvidia) GeForce 7600 GT, GeForce 7800 GTX 512, GeForce 7900 GX2, GeForce 7900 GTX, GeForce 7950 GX2, GeForce 8400 series, GeForce 8500 series, GeForce 8600 series, GeForce 8800 series (mine is GeForce 6800gt)

3.) minimum monitor resolution should be 1080x1920 (mine is 1280x1024)

I am able to edit HD video just fine but I'm not sure if my pc can handle viewing it.  Let me know what you guys think but my feeling is that unless I get a new pc, I'll have to preview disks on a PS3 or some other set top blu ray player. 

Well Guys, I came to this thread for enlightenment, and blow me down, I'm more confused than when I started reading.

I refer you all, most of all Tomas. back to the topic title.  Given all that others have said, what is the workflow "to get a hd blu-ray project out from Liquid using Dvdit Pro HD?"

BTW, if the answer includes using a PS player, the technology is obviously at a too early  stage for the real world, i.e. customers.

John,

My concern is more the notion of taking 25mbps material and sending it up to any of several other data rates ranging from 85mbps to 185mbps or 220mbps and then going back to 25mbps - and then possibly having DVDit transcode yet again.

Liquid can make a transport stream which should work in DVDit Pro HD (Tomas said it handles m2t) but since I don't have and probably won't have that program for a long time, I can't test that.  Sending out an m2v from Liquid which has to be transcoded again by DVDit doesn't sound like a good way to go.  All that re-encoding can't be good for the quality of the final product.

If there's a need to go uncompressed to avoid artifacts from effects rendering, then I think the uncompressed file should be sent to DVDit so it can do all the re-encoding in one step.  I can't tell from the program's specs for sure but I'd expect DVDit Pro HD to handle uncompressed AVI.  Two transcodes are better than 3 or more.  That would be one from the original HDV to uncompressed and one from uncompressed to the DVD.  One transcode would be even better, if possible.  None would be best, if possible.

The more times you transcode something back and forth, the more you're asking for quality problems - not to mention the more confusing the procedure and the more time it takes rendering for little or no benefit.

And, yes, if you don't have a BluRay player (PlayStation or not) other than on the computer, there may be little reason for making the disc in the first place.  You could just watch the footage from the HDV camera connected to your TV or monitor - or watch the captured footage on your computer.   With either of those ways, you don't have to re-encode anything.  The results are instantaneous. 

If all someone wants is to archive HDV footage on DVD and not keep the tapes or not keep the footage on the hard drive, write the m2v and wav files or an m2t onto a data DVD.  It doesn't take a BluRay disc to do that.  A DL DVD (8.4GB) will hold a lot - what would it be, something like 45 minutes based on about 13GB/hr?

SussexJohn:

Well Guys, I came to this thread for enlightenment, and blow me down, I'm more confused than when I started reading.

I refer you all, most of all Tomas. back to the topic title.  Given all that others have said, what is the workflow "to get a hd blu-ray project out from Liquid using Dvdit Pro HD?"

BTW, if the answer includes using a PS player, the technology is obviously at a too early  stage for the real world, i.e. customers.

John, the answer to the workflow is quite easy, back to the basics.

 

1.   The simple and fast way, you could compare it with creating dvd discs directly out from Liquid.

Work in standard hd, export the timeline as a fuse, import the m2v and the wav file into dvdit pro hd, the 25 mbps videofile will be reencoded to a new 25 mbps videofile of the same type.

 

and, for your own sake , you might want to watch what you are creating, there are severel possibilities, I have wrote down the best way 4 ( yes thats four ) times now.

About not wanting to use a PS3 to show your discs on your widescreen, go to the roxio forum and check for other alternatives, I cannot be everywhere.   and there are several of other BD players on the market right now

Scott Myers:

) but since I don't have and probably won't have that program for a long time, I can't test that. 

Douglas, myself and Cathy and a lot of other users are doing just fine Scott, maybe you should work with that application by yourself before telling other people how to use it ........... 

why are you in this thread  ???????????

 

 

 

EmbeR:

As for PowerDVD Ultra, I checked out the minimum requirements and my computer fails to meet the minimum in several areas.  I'm not sure if this would mean that it would be a waste of money or not but here are the deficiencies:

1.) minimum processor is Pentium 4 3.2Ghz            (mine is P4 2.8Ghz)

2.) minimum Graphics card is          (mine is GeForce 6800gt)

I am able to edit HD video just fine but I'm not sure if my pc can handle viewing it.  Let me know what you guys think but my feeling is that unless I get a new pc, I'll have to preview disks on a PS3 or some other set top blu ray player. 

Eric; editing Hd is not an easy thing and your sys is to slow, you´ll have to upgrade, read some of all the threads on the forum about what you´ll need to have.

mjolnarn:

Scott Myers:

) but since I don't have and probably won't have that program for a long time, I can't test that. 

Douglas, myself and Cathy and a lot of other users are doing just fine Scott, maybe you should work with that application by yourself before telling other people how to use it ........... 

why are you in this thread  ???????????

 

 

 

I'm giving people other options and opinions.  Are you against anyone else giving their opinions?

I don't think Douglas agrees with your method.  I'm in frequent contact with him and we've discussed this very subject many times.  Unfortunately, he decided to leave this forum and delete his user account some time ago, so he can't post for himself here on the subject.  I'll be happy to post some of his comments here if he allows me to do so.  I think Cathy has learned better ways to do this but I haven't heard that directly from her.  Maybe she will turn up to speak for herself.

As I said, if I had a use for the program and had a copy, I certainly would test what I've suggested.  I said that Liquid can make an m2t which should work based on your saying that DVDit takes m2t.  I thought maybe you would you like to try it instead of just telling me again and again that I can't give you or anyone else my opinions or suggestions.

Are you that sure that your way is the only way?

mjolnarn:

Douglas, myself and Cathy and a lot of other users are doing just fine Scott, maybe you should work with that application by yourself before telling other people how to use it ........... 

why are you in this thread  ???????????

This just in from Douglas in response:

Scott, please feel free to quote me on the Pinnacle Forum:

" I still read the Pinnacle Liquid Forum from time to time and was unhappy to read Tomas reference to my involvment with Blu-Ray.
Whereas Cathy and Tomas were experimenting with HDV (m2ts files) and the PS3 in the late 2007s, I was actually authoring and producing Blu-Ray discs!

There has never been any co-operation between Tomas and me on Blu-Ray authoring. We have been in touch, and I have listened to Tomas describe his ideas and workflow. (He now has a Blu-Ray burner and can produce discs) However I have always found his workflow with its constant reference to "Uncompressed HD" to be confusing and in some cases misleading. It certainly is a case of "overkill".

I hope Tomas will desist from bringing my name into his threads about Blu-Ray in the future."

Regards,
Douglas

Thank you, Douglas, for backing me up.
 

Hi Scott & everyone else over looking this thread.  Jeez.. I come down with the flu and looks what goes on while I'm away... my goodness.

Scott... yes I used to play around with the m2t files .. this was before I had a blu-ray burner so I could watch the files on my HDTV through my PS3 USB. As I have a blu-ray burner I now do this:

 Ok here goes.  Let me say I have only done this a couple of times.. .I am not yet doing this all the time at present.

 1. When I make my blu-ray disks I edit in HDV inside Liquid. 

2.  Once my edit is complete I make my ISO files for my DVD.  Then if I am going to make a blu-ray I uncompress my timeline (as suggested by Tomas)... others may have different view points if this is neccessary or not.  However, this is what I have done if I am going to use the footage for blu-ray. 

3. I then make a HD AVI FILE (1920 x 1080i)  out of liquid.  I have a profile made under AVI (as suggested by Tomas).  I encode a hd avi MJEG file.  Resolution: 1920x1080i  Interlacing: Top Field First.  16:9  25 Frames (I'm in PAL land).  48khz stereo 16 bit pcm

4. I then import this HD AVI FILE into DVDitpro hd

5. I then make my menu in dvdit pro hd

6.Export it out of dvdit pro hd as an blu-ray ISO file.  Then once that is complete burn the ISO file onto blu-ray.

 I have a Pioneer Blu-ray burner and the only disk i have used are TDK RE for now.  They play on my computer through my blu-ray drive using Power DVD that came with my burner.  They also play fine on my PS3.  I even re-checked today incase it was a new update that was making Eric's disks not play... but my one still plays on my PS3 FINE.

It is important to remember that EVERYONE is always going to find ways to do things differently....this does not mean they are right or wrong.  It is just some people like to keep experimenting until they find what THEY feel is the best way for THEM.  Tomas as I am aware likes to use the highest quality file he can before outputting to blu-ray... I'm sure he does this as DVDITprohd recommends that the best results come from doing it this way.  However, I am happy with the results I have had from doing the above and do not feel the need to wait all this extra time creating huge files that have to be brought back down to size in dvditpro hd to go to blu-ray.

I must say I have learnt alot from both Douglas & Tomas ... and while each of them may do things very differently they both have had success in what they do.  Unless YOU YOURSELF try all of the ways that Tomas, Douglas or I do things you have no way to compare apples with apples.  This is why all 3 of us do things differently... we do what WE believe is good for us and our clients.   Everybodies input is valuable and noone should be disrespectful to how each of us is doing our things.

I must say one thing that really annoys me is people are willing to share so much of their knowledge and then not help out in other areas.  As Liquid cannot output to blu-ray it would be nice to share all the steps in liquid and in dvditpro hd to help others successfully create blu-rays.  There are things inside dvditpro that have to be correctly ticked in order to have success. eg: making sure you tell dvditpro hd to reencode everything including the compliant & non-compliant files.

 Eric... I will say that if your computer is not up to doing the job then it is really hard to help you out in these situations.  I never attempted to edit in HDV until I got a computer that I knew would handle it all.  I never made any blu-ray files until I purchased dvditprohd and bought a blu-ray burner.  You really need to be fully equipt if you want to go down this High Def road. I would be interested to know what version of dvdit pro hd you are using?  Also make sure you tell DVDIT pro hd to reencode everything even compliant files.. this may help. What blu-ray disks are you using? 

Cathy

Hi Cathy. Many thanks for your post, it adds to the information on this topic.

I'm not lazy, but I don't want to spend a lot of time experimenting and money on different kit and software.  I want to tread a path that others have dug out of the undergrowth, and has been todden by a few others.  I DO want to be able to produce BD output for those Clients that have such a requirement - my business model is to move further up-market, and I am sure that will mean more requirement for BD.  Of course standard DVD will be required in among each job that has a BD requirement too.

So I'm greatful to you and other who spend their time  sharing their knowledge and experience.

You mention uncompressing  yout timeline.  What is that?

Others have mentioned keeping the number of times a project is re-encoded to a minimum.  Does using an uncompressed timeline halp with this?

Is your step 3 the same as "Fusing" with those specs?

I'm sure I'll have lots more questions, but one specific for now.... where does my computer spec stand for HD editing? 

P dual core 940 3.2Ghz, Supermicro MB, 4Gb RAM, NVIDI GeForce 6600 256mb graphics card, 150Gb SATA HD, 3 x 250Gb SATA HD, Pioneer DVR 110D burner, 1tb Raid external HD, LE 7.2, XP Pro SP2

I've been quoted for an upgrade to my machine - 

• Asus P5k Premium with wifi
• 2.83Ghz Q9550 1333FSB 12MB Cache Quad Core
• Seagate 750MB 32MB Cache SATA Drives (3) - keeping existing system drive
• ATI 2600XT 512MB graphic card
  

Where would this stand in HDV editing ability?

Thanks all

Hi John,

I decided that I was not going to be like others in the business that could offer something that they had never tried.  I'm a big believer of you have to be able to prove you can do something in order to charge a client for a service.  This is why I made sure my computer could do what it needed to do before I offered blu-ray as part of any of my wedding packages.

To answer your questions:

1. To uncompress your timeline all you do is right click on your timeline where your footage is on your timeline(your sequence) and when you right click it will give you your TIMELINE PROPERTIES.  Go to the last drop down box RENDER/FUSE CODEC PRES: It should say MPEG-2MP@HL (M2V) (as said i'm in pal land so I'm not sure if other hd timelines state other things)  Now use your mouse to open up the options/drop down menu in this render/fuse codec pres and change it to:  UNCOMPRESSED 2VUY(HD)(2VUY)

That's it and Liquid will then render your timeline uncompressed.  Now keep in mind I'm running a Quad Core 3.2 computer (you can view my profile if you want more details) and this will still take a while depending on how many colour filters etc I have used.  I think It normally takes about double what my timeline is to do ... if I remember correctly.

 2. With regards to what others have mentioned about keeping the number of times a project is re-encoded to a minimum.  Does using an uncompressed timeline help with this?

In all honesty I don't know the answer to this.  My main teacher 2 teachers have been Tomas & Douglas and as discussed each of us do things differently.  The quickest way to get footage out of Liquid is.

a. Fuse your timeline and import the fuse into Dvditpro hd (I have not done this as I have probs with my sound when fusing... I need a little more learning when it comes to this)

The next is to do what I do which is:

b. Uncompress your timeline and make a MJPEG HD AVI file and use this in dvditpro hd

Or you can do Tomas's way which takes the longest (Not suitable if you do not have a very quick computer) I did try Tomas's way but I had major troubles with my computer at that time and you had to add a new codec which I believe caused my computer & liquid some serious issues.  Now I cannot be sure it was this codec as I had installed vitascene as well and that was giving me some grief.  My computer was so messed up I had to do a complete wipe of everything and reinstall.... a real big headache.  So... I won't be reinstalling either vitascene or the codec required to do Tomas's way again.  Not while I have a computer that is running.  Now Tomas is a very good 'mechanic' as I call him.  He knows the in's and out's of his computers and he has helped me fix my computers even with him being in Sweden and me being in Australia.  The difference is... I have 1 main editing computer (Tomas I think has 2 or 3) and he can experiment.  I use my main computer for my business and I need it to work and be working all of the time.  The money I make is my income.  Therefore, I do not like to keep experimenting with things when something works for me.   I just don't have the time.. I have to keep working and outputting my jobs.

I think everything as Tomas has said MANY times before... none of us have found a file that we can put into dvditpro hd that does not need to be reencoded!  Just find the way that works for you... view the results and go with that:)

3.  Uncompressing the timeline and making a MJPEG HD AVI file is a higher file than the staight fuse from Liquid.  So... the specs are not the same as I am aware as just fusing from liquid. Tomas is the guru with this though :)  Apparently.. if you uncompress your timeline you CANNOT fuse out from liquid.  This is what I have been told.

4.  Others will be able to give you more insight as to your computer... I know you will need to not use an nvidia geforce card (I have that in my old computer and it worked fine for Liquid 6 but have heard it is not good with 7... ) I think you should change over to ATI but I see they have a patch now for the later nvidia cards!

I will say this... I did so much research on updating my computer before I did it... look at what others are using successfully and then build your computer around that.  Check out what George in greece is using... we are running similar systems.. well we did when I did my upgrade.

All the best

Cathy

ps:  I'm still not well with the flu so please forgive me if this post is a bit all over the place :)

 

Once again, back to the basics, and thanks for the kind words Cathy.

John, when we edit hd and do colour corrections, we render the entire timeline as uncompressed in the last step to get better rendering results out of our work, thet rendering might take some time and computers work for free at nights.

If you fuse that uncompressed timeline, you´ll get a YUV file that most editing apps aren´t able to handle, thats why we find other solutions, the 85 mbps avi mjpeg file is a very nice exporting alternative that I uses frequently and the results are very good, Dvdit pro Hd can handle that file and recode it to bluray or dvd so you can get both bluray and dvd out from the same project with the same menu.

Rendering uncompressed hd takes up a lot of space and if your customers not have very good eyes and you haven´t done so much colour corrections, the standard mpg hdv timeline works well and there is no need to switch render codec to uncompressed hd I think.

In this case, your fuse from that timeline will become a standard mpg hd file as described in my first post and that file ( those files , audio and video ) is what you import into Dvdit pro hd, the video file is not compliant with dvdit pro hd and needs to be recoded by the app as also said in my first post but that is only one recoding and the so called generation loss is not viewable I think.

Using DnxHd files and maybe also another encoder that will do 2 pass encoding is something that only a few of us currently are testing, this is for users that likes to try and test the very best I think and our customers will hardly see any differences from the standard workflow.

So, to summarize:

The main workflow is to work with a standard Hd timeline and do a fuse, exporting your fused files to dvdit pro hd.

or, and this is extra :

switch render codec to an uncompressed hd timeline, the fused files will not be able to use so, instaed of doing a fuse,  an export to mjpeg avi files works excellent.

questions ?

 

Cathy,

Did the m2t files from Liquid work in DVDit or has anyone ever tried them?  No one has answered that question yet.  If they work, that might be the quickest and easiest method to get HDV footage to DVDit.  There would be less transcoding and less time waiting for renders.  Having more possibilities is better than having fewer.  It's no skin off my nose if anyone wants to spend all night getting something rendered but if that really isn't necessary, then why not let others know so they can use whichever method they prefer?

You've begun to confirm that all that rendering is not necessary.  Thanks.

By the way, there's no reason to to go uncompressed just to recompress to MJPEG.  You could skip that step and save a lot of time and even quality.  It might help to go to uncompressed and use that in DVDit but not to use Liquid to transcode yet again to MJPEG.  If you want an MJPEG from Liquid, just make it without going to uncompressed first.  Again, it's no skin off my nose if you want to do it the way you're doing it.  I'm trying to help other people find a better way than those I've seen.  I don't have to have already driven a Mercedes to know how to drive it.  Experience with any car is sufficient. 

What I'm saying is that transcoding more is not better no matter what the situation.  Keep the number of transcodes to the absolute minimum.  That saves time and saves quality.